ND555 - have pulled the trigger

Three words

Naim

intended

performance

LOL !!!!!!

Bert Schurink posted:

tonym posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

analogmusic posted:

It’s nothing personal Harry but having lived a 800 series speaker with and auctioned All the latest B&w D3 range I think they’re overpriced and underperforming. Not really a good match with Naim

the impedance curve which they present to a Naim amplifier drops down to 3 ohms and I doubt even a 500 DR can drive an 802 D3

its a very demanding speaker which isn’t even a tonally neutral one. I just find the B&w sound fatiguing and bloated/saturated and frankly ear piercing. The diamond tweeter is hard as nails and doesn’t sound like real music

 Nothing personal here Harry just A technical debate on whether B&w matches with Naim. 

 

 

Before I got to the real religion. I also auditioned an Audionet based system with different speaker configurations. And one the configurations was the B&W line up till the end. And I was honestly very dissapointed by the sound. I missed the life and energy of the music while listening to B&W. I never have understood why the are so well established in the press, and I even started to doubt if I am missing some aspects in my hearing. The same is for me the case with the Focal's besides the new Kanta's which I love.  

B&W a poor match to Naim? Well, I might have thought so at one time, having never heard a pair I liked (apart from the B&W Solids I've got in the bathroom), but then I heard a pair in a fellow forumite and friend's 500/552 system & they sounded pretty fine.

There seems an increasing tendency for people to base their views on limited experiences, usually at hi-fi shows, or indeed by reading others' opinions, on certain hi-fi components.  Revealed by some posters is a lack of confidence and a nagging worry that maybe what they've spent a large sum on might not be the best option after all so they feel they need to keep justifying their choices by denigrating alternatives. It's pretty tedious and unhelpful.

I appreciate your view. At the same time I wouldn't see my opinion as just based on show sound etc. I have heard the different B&W's multiple time with different electronic configurations and I was never impressed. I am then purely basing my opinion on the big speakers - as I also myself have a AV based speaker set which fully satisfies me. So I would say the story is different for lower end speakers of B&W they normally present good value for money. And I did also hear a lot of other speakers which gave me a comparison (Verity Audio - my own brand great in my ears, musical not analytical; Wilson Audio - great; Wilson Benesh - great; Sonus Faber - good but depends; Kudos - great; Kef good value for money...........).

But it's good that everybody has his own opinion. Oherwise everybody would buy Naim and we would need to wait years to ge the ND555 delivered :-)

My second paragraph wasn't aimed at you Bert.

I don't understand what TonyM is talking about.

I've owned a B&W speaker for years and auditioned all the latest one extensively. I was not impressed.

B&W and Naim doesn't work well, these speakers have a thirst for watts/current that is insatiable. 

Efficiency is a concept that speaker manufacturers should remember and also load on the amplifier.

I do also remember very fondly how TonyM posted all over the internet that the Chord Dave didn't work out for him, and then ended up buying one. 

analogmusic posted:

I don't understand what TonyM is talking about.

I've owned a B&W speaker for years and auditioned all the latest one extensively. I was not impressed.

B&W and Naim doesn't work well, these speakers have a thirst for watts/current that is insatiable. 

Efficiency is a concept that speaker manufacturers should remember and also load on the amplifier.

I do also remember very fondly how TonyM posted all over the internet that the Chord Dave didn't work out for him, and then ended up buying one. 

You're being disingenuous. Dave certainly sounded inferior to my QBD76 (by no means just my opinion) and only sounded better after I had my 3X500s DR'd, and used a different Dave. With different usb power. The point being, there's no point banging on about how wonderful everyone will find something you happen to like in your particular system ad nauseum, it all depends on system and taste. 

analogmusic posted:

It’s nothing personal Harry

but having lived a 800 series speaker with and auctioned All the latest B&w D3 range I think they’re overpriced and underperforming. Not really a good match with Naim

 

Yeah. I know. I get the distinction. No worries.

Your follow on views could have been written by me on numerous occasions, up until they introduced two models which actually worked in our room.  The latest 800 series might sound even better in our room, or sound awful. That's rooms for you. It's no coincidence that in 40 years I haven't been through many speaker changes and have rejected upgrade candidates at a ratio of about 20:1, sometimes giving up and continuing unchanged. Funny things, rooms.

Hey Analogmusic,

i really don’t understand your point :  you don’t like bw speakers ( me too) with naim amps but Tonym likes them. Tonym didn’t like first, on precedent system, the dave, but now he likes it.

So you think he will change his mind and finally dislike the bws ?

As a lot said to you, there’s no intended naim sound .  Before naim was demonstrating a lot with bw speakers.  Now with focal.   The sound is completely different between these 2 speakers.  In the past Naim was demonstrating with naim speakers....   We have here 3 naim sounds.    But there is infinite possibilities, each person has his preferences.  Same for cables or sources with naim electronics ( like your dave).

The problem with threads like this is that some forum members have a habit of expressing opinion and preference as if it were fact.

A more judicious use of IMO, IM(limited)E, to my ears, and so on, would make for a better conversation...

...IMO. 

Congrats Bert. Am looking forward to your impressions of the Munich show, and hopefully before too long, the ND555. Personally, after a long and lovely NDS listening session last night, I just can’t envision leaving the retirement village. But I wish you and other future ND555 owners all the best!

Hook posted:

The problem with threads like this is that some forum members have a habit of expressing opinion and preference as if it were fact.

A more judicious use of IMO, IM(limited)E, to my ears, and so on, would make for a better conversation...

...IMO. 

Congrats Bert. Am looking forward to your impressions of the Munich show, and hopefully before too long, the ND555. Personally, after a long and lovely NDS listening session last night, I just can’t envision leaving the retirement village. But I wish you and other future ND555 owners all the best!

 

Have to agree. My NDS is sounding better than ever and I’ve been told by SWMBO that she needs a new car, so dream on ND555! 

i have an nds and before the cdx2.  The nds is more cds3 sound, and i am more on the cdx2 wish of sound.  So perhaps i will sell later  my nds and buy the ndx2, if the ndx2 is more on the cdx2 side( but better). Of course i will listen first to it at my dealer place, when available.

Hook posted:

Personally, after a long and lovely NDS listening session last night, I just can’t envision leaving the retirement village.

Similar situation here. The ND555 has a mountain to climb. 

This is going to be serious fun. I look forward to hearing the ND555 and the reactions to it.

Harry posted:

Hook posted:

Personally, after a long and lovely NDS listening session last night, I just can’t envision leaving the retirement village.

Similar situation here. The ND555 has a mountain to climb. 

This is going to be serious fun. I look forward to hearing the ND555 and the reactions to it.

That’s of course now for me the key question. How much better will the new beast be. I wasn’t unhappy with my NDS - but now that there is still some room for improvement in rendition on natural tone and detail and boogie factor. Let’s hope I will be so happy that I can’t stop posting about my excitement. And not that I am having a difficult time to describe the improvement I am experiencing.

Bert, I expect it will be different for each of us. I'm really looking forward to hearing your and everyone's impressions. And of course, I'm looking forward to hearing the ND555 most of all. 

There is no pre existing driver to ditch an NDS. It is IMO the best streamer you ca buy. Things can either get better or stay the same. Nobody will be a loser.

Bert Schurink posted:

Harry posted:

Hook posted:

Personally, after a long and lovely NDS listening session last night, I just can’t envision leaving the retirement village.

Similar situation here. The ND555 has a mountain to climb. 

This is going to be serious fun. I look forward to hearing the ND555 and the reactions to it.

That’s of course now for me the key question. How much better will the new beast be. I wasn’t unhappy with my NDS - but now that there is still some room for improvement in rendition on natural tone and detail and boogie factor. Let’s hope I will be so happy that I can’t stop posting about my excitement. And not that I am having a difficult time to describe the improvement I am experiencing.

I'm sure this will be the case..........................with the right amp and speakers !

Bert Schurink posted:

Richieroo posted:

Bert ..... I know Naim have been working on the ND555 project for quite a long time .... I am sure you will not be dissapointed - I am also sure it has been road tested extensively with the ultra revealing statement ........ we all just can't wait to see how you get on ........... will you be using it with 2 x 555psdr??!!! it probably deserves it!!!

I will be using it with a single 555PS DR. I have heard the impact of a 2nd 555PS DR on a NDS at NAIM and it was nothing short of revealing experience through a statement system. The natural tonality of the instruments came much more across than before (especially critical instruments as piano). So I wouldn't as such challenge the value of such an investment. But it's just not first on my priority list.

1. ND555

2. DR'ing my NAP500

3. Potentially replacing my Vodka Ethernet cable replaced by a Chord Music or the 2nd 555PS DR.

 

While 1 and 2 will happen in due time, 3A/B depend on personal situation. There are more priorities in life...... 

When I spoke with Steve Sells at the Bristol Show I asked him about the impact of 1x vs 2x 555PS on the ND555. I wouldn’t want to try to accredit a quote to him, but my impression from what he told me was that whilst two would of course give some uplift, it was by no means essential and you’ll get a great result with just a single PS. 

That reply by Steve has the ring of truth about it, but having added the extra PS to a CD555 and carried it over to NDS, I have to say that the improvement is real, if increasingly difficult to justify on price/incremental performance grounds. But just now I am hearing ‘Rumours’ for the first time on NDS 4.6 (with 2x555DR) and it almost has me cancelling my ND555 order, but not quite......... I believe the best is yet to come!

David O'Higgins posted:

That reply by Steve has the ring of truth about it, but having added the extra PS to a CD555 and carried it over to NDS, I have to say that the improvement is real, if increasingly difficult to justify on price/incremental performance grounds. But just now I am hearing ‘Rumours’ for the first time on NDS 4.6 (with 2x555DR) and it almost has me cancelling my ND555 order, but not quite......... I believe the best is yet to come!

Well you'll be one of the first to be able to repeat that comparison (one or two 555PSDR)  on the ND555. I'll look forward to reading your findings on here!

Why would I repeat the comparison, when I already know the outcome? I’m gone beyond that and I will not be posting on 2 vs 1 power supplies. I’ve done my apprenticeship!

Harry posted:

analogmusic posted:

It’s nothing personal Harry

but having lived a 800 series speaker with and auctioned All the latest B&w D3 range I think they’re overpriced and underperforming. Not really a good match with Naim

 

Yeah. I know. I get the distinction. No worries.

Your follow on views could have been written by me on numerous occasions, up until they introduced two models which actually worked in our room.  The latest 800 series might sound even better in our room, or sound awful. That's rooms for you. It's no coincidence that in 40 years I haven't been through many speaker changes and have rejected upgrade candidates at a ratio of about 20:1, sometimes giving up and continuing unchanged. Funny things, rooms.

 

Yes that I can agree with which explains why so many different experiences happen with the same product. 

Nice post, thank you 

I’d also add that Naim represents substantial financial outlay, as a hi end product so it does feel a bit upsetting to some to be told that the 250 dr isn’t quite as good as we think.

Not for me particularly at all as I’ve done the tests and personally love my 250 but some context is necessary. The 250 does indeed work very well with a matching speaker.  Of course it won’t sound as god as a 500 but I always have so much fun and enjoyment with it that it simply doesn’t matter. 

Would I pair a 250 with a hard to drive speaker ? No because they’re many speakers designed with Naim like philosophy in mind like Neat Kudos and maybe Dynaudio. 

These include being voiced with Naim amplifiers for Neat and Kudos and presenting a stable load to the amp (Dynaudio always designs their speakers with this in mind)

Hold on! I am not rubbishing the 250 it is a great amp!  In-fact when I had a 250dr - as I stated before I wondered how it could get any better....... you are right matching it with appropriate harmonising speakers is essential. However, it does get better as you go up the Naim chain ......... but hey thats the same as anything ........ cars,watches,cameras etc etc. Rest assured your Nap250 is a great amp ... 

300 dr and 500 dr are better amps but I’m not willing to pay for it. 

Im more interested in spending my limited cash now in source improvements or better speakers

analogmusic posted:

300 dr and 500 dr are better amps but I’m not willing to pay for it. 

Im more interested in spending my limited cash now in source improvements or better speakers

 

You have an excellent system ......... possibly look at the speakers - my 250dr worked really well with pmc speakers ...... however, it is very personal choice..... I love small speakers .....the 250dr works well Proac tablets..... I am sure if you start a new thread - you will get some very good feedback regarding speaker choice.

analogmusic posted:

I’d also add that Naim represents substantial financial outlay, as a hi end product so it does feel a bit upsetting to some to be told that the 250 dr isn’t quite as good as we think.In response to your point in general, as opposed to a 

 

It's as good or as bad as you think it is. Who cares what anybody else thinks? 

By way of a general response as opposed as straight back at you in particular:

Why would somebody else's personal opinion matter? If they call you a fool in public for buying a 250 then you have a legitimate beef. If they simply state that they personally don't like it and wouldn't have one, how is that harmful or insulting? The forum seems to be filling with people who want make everything other people post all about them.

This forum isn't Facebook.

Congratulations Bert, as a proponent of the 200$ streaming solution and low shelf counts, still I admire your proactive attitude and look forward to reading here about your first impressions in due course.

Yes I suppose you're right about this not being Facebook.  If it were, I think there would be options to block or dislike you.  I could be wrong.