ND555 - have pulled the trigger

nigelb posted:

I have heard the 552 on several occasions, mostly at dealers and shows, so not in optimal conditions. I then listen to my 252 at home, which has been set up with care and attention and think to myself, 'that is not a bad comparison to a 552'. But I know deep down that this is not a fair comparison and if I were to set up a 552 carefully in my home I would be on the internet in an instant trying to find the best price for any organ I could live without. OK that is an exaggeration, but I am sure you get my point.

The Naim hierarchy in price is and its relative impact on SQ is both well recognised and generally accepted I would suggest, be it sources, pre amps to power amps. But there is nothing wrong in going a rung down and being happy with the result and saving yourself a wad of cash.

I do this all the time and have probably ended up with a system I would have never dreamt to I would own. I am sure the psychologists have a word for this affliction!

I agree wholeheartedly with you Nigel...  the Statement might be a whole lot better than my 552, but I don't care, I just close my eyes and...  think of the wad of cash I'm saving.

(seriously)

That's a good point which I'd forgotten because I'm spoilt and take it for granted! The 252 pulles clear of it's peers and lower level siblings because it excels at "simplifying" complex material in a way that preserves the energy but makes things easier to follow. Not unique, of course. And not something that other Naim amps don't do. It's effortlessly good at the sophisticated stuff without draining all the fun out of the music or drawing attention to what it is doing. Given that about 60% of my collection is occupied by classical and prog, I suppose it's a hurdle the aspiring 252 had to clear easily, perhaps without me even realising it.

I've always followed the source first model because experience has taught me to. I used to rate the amplification as the least important thing to address because only a really bad or damaged amp would be an issue in a room which had properly matched speakers installed. Source first is still the most logical and easily demonstrable model in my little universe, but the picture has got a little fuzzier for me over the past 10 years. I think the pre can be regarded as a kind of secondary source support thing. It can make a big difference to a source. Although as we know, nothing can put back what isn't there. Or polish a turd successfully. It never hurts to keep an open mind.

rjstaines posted:

  the Statement might be a whole lot better than my 552, but I don't care, I just close my eyes and...  think of the wad of cash I'm saving.

(seriously)

It's different for everyone. For me, the Statement asking price is investment level money.  Something costing that much couldn't be spent on something as frivolous as HiFi. For them as can afford it, good luck to you. Life is for living.

Michael_B. posted:

Filipe posted:

Harry posted:

Our first introduction to the 252 and 552 was in the same dealer demonstration room, so not ideal although at least there was a bit of consistency. We loved the 252. It was the first Naim pre we heard that sounded natural to us. Effortless, poised, subtle, yet fast and incisive when required. It had a beautiful “reach out and touch” presentation.  Having auditioned and rejected 202 some years before, and the 282 more recently, this was an amp that made us want to save up and buy it.

It took some more years before we got our 252/300. In the intervening period we heard (in the same room) 552/500/SL2/nSub. This was the end point which we had been looking for, but it was something we didn’t think we could ever justify or afford.  It was real music, nothing more or less, played by real people on real instruments in the room. It was as if you could walk into the sound stage and look around. The tonality, voicing, whatever-you-want-to-call-it seemed so realistic that it was a kind of time travel back to the stuido. And SL2s can image just fine, if given the appropriate information.

All well and good. But our lounge is the only room that counts. When the magic day finally arrived, the 252/300 did not disappoint. They seemed to fit in perfectly. A 552 came to live with the 300 a few years later. We weren’t looking for something better, we just had the time, resources and curiosity to have a sniff. It wasn’t the night and day transformation that we membered. How could it be? Different room, speakers and power anp.  But it was still a transformation which justified the cost. Still the cross over point from really good HiFi to just plain music, that we remembered.

We could have stayed with the 252. It turned out that, in our room, the 252 had somehow found its optimal surroundings. The 552 was better to our ears, and not by a small margin. But that didn’t mean the 252 had instantly turned to crap. We think it’s Naim’s best VFM pre and consistently underrated/overlooked.  I don't get upset when other people don't like it as much as I do. Or if they think a 552 is marketing over engineering. Each to our own. 

Harry, informative post. Such posts make more sense when one has had some of the same experiences. I quite agree the 252 is cracking vfm. I thought the 282 was, but the 252 brings out the power and intensity of classical music in a way that grabs and holds your intention. I been going through my Stephen Bishop Kovacevick Beethoven Piano Concertos and Piano has so much more energy. 

Phil

I have to agree. As much as I have irritated people with my opinion that the 282 captures the string tones of the cello better than the 252, there is no doubt the 252 is far superior when it comes to the piano.

Michael, I would say that whilst I have enjoyed cello and violin on the 282, the 252 brings depth and power as well as subtle tones and timbre. There was even a drum in a Beethoven Piano piece that suddenly grabbed my attention for the first time. It sounded so natural and in balance with the rest of the orchestra.

We like Dvorak’s 8 symphony, my wife particularly because she played oboe in the Stonelea Youth Orchestra. It was always really good on the 282, but better still in terms of power and excitement.

I already had the SuperCap DR so the partex at £3k for 4 year old to nearly new was good. I had to buy Naim Glass, cups and balls at £90/shelf to get the setup right. It sounded awful until I did that.

Phil

Harry posted:

That's a good point which I'd forgotten because I'm spoilt and take it for granted! The 252 pulles clear of it's peers and lower level siblings because it excels at "simplifying" complex material in a way that preserves the energy but makes things easier to follow. Not unique, of course. And not something that other Naim amps don't do. It's effortlessly good at the sophisticated stuff without draining all the fun out of the music or drawing attention to what it is doing. Given that about 60% of my collection is occupied by classical and prog, I suppose it's a hurdle the aspiring 252 had to clear easily, perhaps without me even realising it.

I've always followed the source first model because experience has taught me to. I used to rate the amplification as the least important thing to address because only a really bad or damaged amp would be an issue in a room which had properly matched speakers installed. Source first is still the most logical and easily demonstrable model in my little universe, but the picture has got a little fuzzier for me over the past 10 years. I think the pre can be regarded as a kind of secondary source support thing. It can make a big difference to a source. Although as we know, nothing can put back what isn't there. Or polish a turd successfully. It never hurts to keep an open mind.

Hi Harry, 

Makes a lot of sense how you represent the 252. I started myself with the 282 and moved via the 252 to the 552. I would describe the as follows:

282 - huge musical enjoyment. Is already pretty grown up. But struggles with complex stuff - and gives quite a carachter to the sound - forward / aggressive nature.

252 - if you didn’t hear the 552 it could have stopped her. Seriously refined pre, can easily deal with complexity. Doesn’t impose a carachter - but tries to stay neutral. Some people cal it dull - however I would disagree with them as it’s very natural and it does also play very well hard rock if needed....

552 - the magic starts here. The approach of the music is emotional. It brings the music really in front of you in all it qualities. People who have found the 252 dull, will not be dissapointed. It’s that Naim created a statement, but without a statement it’s in a very exclusive league of it’s own. Most othervery good pre-amps make Perhaps point on typical show qualities airyness etc. But as hifi is not an art form and music is, the 552 concentrates on music and not on hifi.

All of the above of course very much depends also on source and power amp. My 282 worked very well with the CDX-2, XPS, NDAc combination. They where almost made for each other from style attack etc.

The 252 gave so much more detail and so much more positioning and tonality and kept on doing wonders, even while I had “only” had a 200 at the time.

The 552 gave the 200 even a level never expected. When the 300 came, the NDS started to really shine. With the 500 the emotional connection with the music became a big step forward.

Even when I think back a nice journey. I hope when my ND555 comes that I will still make a big step up, followed hopefully by the move from normal 500 to DR. Exciting journeys.

And i will still enjoy it for some years before my ears start to seriously degrade.....:-)

I can relate only too well with what you said, particularly the last line! I Here's hoping it's slow and relatively unnoticeable.

Congratulations Bert, well done. 

‘Your contributions to the forum are greatly valued by me. Keep us posted...so so so tempted to do the same. I don’t believe I have any memory of Naim ever not raising the bar and if they are saying.....well then that’s fine by me!!!!!

jsaudio posted:

Getting back to the ND555. I currently have a 272/PS555DR/300DR/ Sopra-3 system and like many, awaiting the 272 successor. However, would it be possible to use the pre-amp in the 272 with the ND555 and my PS555 or will that bare 272 pre-amp section defeat the benefit of the new streamer.

Ditch the 272 buy a 552....or just enjoy it as it is without an exprnsive Digital. Source, i went for the first Road... 552 about to arrive 

Aww yes... you are so going to enjoy your 552... yes it takes a long time to bed in to really show it’s pedigree (several months) but boy it’s worth it.

Emre posted:

jsaudio posted:

Getting back to the ND555. I currently have a 272/PS555DR/300DR/ Sopra-3 system and like many, awaiting the 272 successor. However, would it be possible to use the pre-amp in the 272 with the ND555 and my PS555 or will that bare 272 pre-amp section defeat the benefit of the new streamer.

Ditch the 272 buy a 552....or just enjoy it as it is without an exprnsive Digital. Source, i went for the first Road... 552 about to arrive 

Hi I was faced with same issue and bit the bullet and bought a 552 .... never regretted it used it with a 272 as the source for a while then traded 272 against a pre loved NDS (which sounds amazing) .... which ultimately may be traded for an ND555 ............ The 272 preamp is pretty good ..... prehaps not quite as good as a 282 ......... so the ND555 would be held back a bit .... I think it is horses for courses ....personally  I suggest you keep your eye open for a pre loved 552 dr ..... then trade your 272 against either an NDX2 or ND555 after you have had a really good home audition. I think you are in for exciting times. By the way .... the NDS/ND555 will need (in my opinion) the superlumina din to connect to 552 (this made a really big difference to my setup).....expensive times ahead!!!

So, just to confirm Bert..........

.......... your order for an ND555 still stands and you are eagerly looking forward to superb streamed music !

Munich reinforced your desires ?

Any updates Bert?

Bert Schurink posted:

Nick Lees posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

Clive B posted:

I will need to decide whether to trade in my NDS for an ND555 and keep my NAP500 non-DR or keep my NDS and have the DR mod done on my NAP500. That will be an interesting two-way demo! I just need to wait until my dealer can get hold of an ND555 - I don't think I'd be willing to make that sort of investment without a serious demo.

The DR'ing of my NAP500 is also on the list of wishes. Potentially will also get it done this year or wait a a bit longer to early next year. Both should provide a considerable upgrade.

Bert, you NEED the 500 DR. Trust me. New amp. 

I know I will get it done at some point. I think I also a NEED a statement, but I just miss some funds....

Wow, I miss you guys!

Had to update my profile, signed it, didn't read it!

=========================================

But, Naim finally upgraded it's Reference Streamer!

At some point, could you (Bert), elaborate on the subtle or major difference between the units!

Congratulations on pulling the Trigger!

Your Money may be long, But Life is Short!

Enjoy Your Music, The Why!

Allante93!

Don Atkinson posted:

So, just to confirm Bert..........

.......... your order for an ND555 still stands and you are eagerly looking forward to superb streamed music !

Munich reinforced your desires ?

Yes Munich definitely reinforced my desire, awaiting eagerly what’s coming, but assume my new BMW X3 will arrive earlier than the the ND555.....

Allante93 posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

Nick Lees posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

Clive B posted:

I will need to decide whether to trade in my NDS for an ND555 and keep my NAP500 non-DR or keep my NDS and have the DR mod done on my NAP500. That will be an interesting two-way demo! I just need to wait until my dealer can get hold of an ND555 - I don't think I'd be willing to make that sort of investment without a serious demo.

The DR'ing of my NAP500 is also on the list of wishes. Potentially will also get it done this year or wait a a bit longer to early next year. Both should provide a considerable upgrade.

Bert, you NEED the 500 DR. Trust me. New amp. 

I know I will get it done at some point. I think I also a NEED a statement, but I just miss some funds....

Wow, I miss you guys!

Had to update my profile, signed it, didn't read it!

=========================================

But, Naim finally upgraded it's Reference Streamer!

At some point, could you (Bert), elaborate on the subtle or major difference between the units!

Congratulations on pulling the Trigger!

Your Money may be long, But Life is Short!

Enjoy Your Music, The Why!

Allante93!

I will do once the unit arrives. But you can see my impressions on the Munich thread.

main things...

PRAT massive

soundstage

detail retrieval 

tonality..

can’t wait, need to also select a couple of albums to burn in my mind and to use as comparison material in my own environment...

Dustysox posted:

Any updates Bert?

No news, and don’t know if that’s good news in this case....., ....

Allante93 posted:

Wow, I miss you guys!

Had to update my profile, signed it, didn't read it!

=========================================

But, Naim finally upgraded it's Reference Streamer!

At some point, could you (Bert), elaborate on the subtle or major difference between the units!

Congratulations on pulling the Trigger!

Your Money may be long, But Life is Short!

Enjoy Your Music, The Why!

Allante93!

Glad you are back, you were missed by quite a few here!

When will your ND555 be landing???

Allante93 posted:

Wow, I miss you guys!

 

Allante93!

Glad to see you back!

Adam Zielinski posted:

Allante93 posted:

Wow, I miss you guys!

 

Allante93!

Glad to see you back!

Nice to be missed, I'm tearing up!

Any new toys Adam?

500 Series!

Allante93!

Welcome back Allante,

Have missed your postings of late.

Wishing you a fine Sunday

Cheers Ian

Allante93 posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Allante93 posted:

Wow, I miss you guys!

 

Allante93!

Glad to see you back!

Nice to be missed, I'm tearing up!

Any new toys Adam?

500 Series!

Allante93!

You tease!  I was on the verge of buing a 552 pre, but potponed that for a while

Instead setted down for a Superline+SuperCapDR for my Rega RP10.

Any updates Bert?

Exciting times eh!!!

Dustysox posted:

Any updates Bert?

Exciting times eh!!!

No only reading about the great roadshow in the UK - no sign of delivery yet, while I have hope for the coming month....

How about a Bert road show!!!! I am sure it would ace.....