HDX

Ardbeg10y posted:

Max_B posted:

Japtimscarlet posted:

Max_B posted:

Bob,

I looked the Innuos Zen MkII and it looks gorgeous and full of interesting features. I might reconsider it, even if this would force me to change my amp (see my previous post).

OCD-ly yours

Max 

So are we saying the zen needs a separate DAC to work ?

I thought it could be plugged directly into say a N272 and used directly like that...have I got it wrong ( wouldn't be the first time!!)

But I thought that the 272 had digital inputs.... So an Innuos could well be plugged directly into it I suppose. But I too could be wrong of course.

That Innuos does only usb. It will work on a Dac V1 which has the async usb port, but thats quite it in the Naim universe.

I don´t understand the attraction for that Innuos on this forum.

 

the innuos, the melco, the uniticore and the antipodes are the 4 existing ripper/ nas with audiophile quality.  They can be used as nas , or servers, connected to a dac.  

The melco have not integrated ripping software.  The innuos zen mini is the cheapest. Some prefer the innuos vs the core for its metadata handling....specially with classical music.

The uniticore had also several software problems until recently, so i understand why people went for innuos or melco.

Bob the Builder posted:

The Innous Zen can connect over upnp to all Naim Uniti products and Network players like any other Nas using the Naim units onboard dac.  Alternatively it can be connected to any USB dac like the Chord Qutest a combo that would come in below £2K brand new and not much more than half of that sum for say a used Innous Zen Mini and a Chord 2Qute which of course would work exceptionally well with Max's Supernait 2.

Of course the HDX is a fantastic bit of kit and would grace any Naim system perfectly and I imagine would pair up superbly with a SN2 and if an all Naim streaming system is what you are looking for than that combo would be exceptionally hard to be beat in terms of value. 

Bob,

just two clarifications: I have a SN1, not 2 – but that doesn't matter. The real point, which I obviously failed to bring home, is that I have accurately and frequently tested the HDX as a pure source, without any external PSU, DAC or other asset, and have found it to be, sonically, on a par with a CDX2 and perhaps with a CDS3 with no effort at all.

If I decided to buy one, having an extra PSU ready for it I'd use it, but if I had none I'd simply use the HDX as it is, sure as I am that as a truly single box solution it has close to no rival.

Max

Max_B posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

The Innous Zen can connect over upnp to all Naim Uniti products and Network players like any other Nas using the Naim units onboard dac.  Alternatively it can be connected to any USB dac like the Chord Qutest a combo that would come in below £2K brand new and not much more than half of that sum for say a used Innous Zen Mini and a Chord 2Qute which of course would work exceptionally well with Max's Supernait 2.

Of course the HDX is a fantastic bit of kit and would grace any Naim system perfectly and I imagine would pair up superbly with a SN2 and if an all Naim streaming system is what you are looking for than that combo would be exceptionally hard to be beat in terms of value. 

Bob,

just two clarifications: I have a SN1, not 2 – but that doesn't matter. The real point, which I obviously failed to bring home, is that I have accurately and frequently tested the HDX as a pure source, without any external PSU, DAC or other asset, and have found it to be, sonically, on a par with a CDX2 and perhaps with a CDS3 with no effort at all.

If I decided to buy one, having an extra PSU ready for it I'd use it, but if I had none I'd simply use the HDX as it is, sure as I am that as a truly single box solution it has close to no rival.

Max

Max,

HDX/SN1 sounds like a system to be reckoned with.  I myself am very interested in the SN1 or the SN2 as a possible replacement for my separates I know you have a lot of experience with the SN's and would be interested to hear from you your thoughts on them.

Ok, happily. Just be prepared to a long reply.... Now I'm off to a light dinner, then I'll be back. I have warned you!

Max

Max_B posted:

Ok, happily. Just be prepared to a long reply.... Now I'm off to a light dinner, then I'll be back. I have warned you!

Max

I look forward to it.

Max_B posted:

Japtimscarlet posted:

Max_B posted:

Bob,

I looked the Innuos Zen MkII and it looks gorgeous and full of interesting features. I might reconsider it, even if this would force me to change my amp (see my previous post).

OCD-ly yours

Max 

So are we saying the zen needs a separate DAC to work ?

I thought it could be plugged directly into say a N272 and used directly like that...have I got it wrong ( wouldn't be the first time!!)

But I thought that the 272 had digital inputs.... So an Innuos could well be plugged directly into it I suppose. But I too could be wrong of course.

All of the Innuos models have a USB output (rather than the SPDIF out that the Naim servers use.) They also have a UPnP server which would make them suitable for a Naim streamer. With the exception of the Zen Mini, they have two Ethernet ports, one being a regular LAN port, and the other being a dedicated connection to the streamer. Like Melco, they claim that this has advantages over a regular network connection. 

None of the Innuos servers have a built in DAC like the HDX, so probably of no interest to the OP. 

And yet, I've just finished listening to an old, AAD copy of Four way street and it sounded so lively and natural... Apart from the memories.

Bob, I'll write about my life with the SN (I have had three and have used them with any possible source and speakers) tomorrow.

Good night to everybody, I am done for today

M

I love the concept of the HDX, although I’ve only heard it briefly at the Bristol show when first released. The issue for me was always the cost, something like £5k vs the £3k for NDX when I was in the market, hence I went for the latter and a £300 vortexbox. Still looks a class act though and I’m still tempted when I see them come up. 

Max_B posted:

Ok, thanks to both. It's definitely time to buy one....

Max

Max, you are absolutely in tune with the universe; your instincts are guiding you to an impecable choice of audio equipment. I can only congratulate you on your ability to identify a superb solution to storing and serving your digital music collection.

I've heard it said that the new Core would be the replacement for the HDX, but of course this is nonsense - the software offered with the Core is so disastrously lacking in functionality as to make me wonder how the devil the designers were ever allowed to bring it to the development stage, let alone to implementation on a live product.

OK, you guessed it, I'm not too keen on the Core, but love the HDX (and NS01 & U/Serve).

Ardbeg10y posted:

It might surprise you, but I actually reply this time a bit on topic / which could be considered boring.

Think of a backup strategy when deploying an HDX. It seems that they fail now and then and since the units around are getting a bit older it is something to think about.

It's something I started thinking about after reading this reply of yours and still am. I have no other backup strategy than sticking to the CDX2... But if you mean my SN and S-400s with 'the units around it', well the amp is 8 years old, the Ovators much younger. In Naim world, 8 years are time for the capacitors to become fossils with a fishbone inside it, in my real world everything is still up and going. I remember the voice of the Nova, though, and its good looks, but I also like the idea of goin' on thinking with with my head until it's irreplaceable. A sort of B-strategy too, isn't it?

Best

Max

Max_B posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

It might surprise you, but I actually reply this time a bit on topic / which could be considered boring.

Think of a backup strategy when deploying an HDX. It seems that they fail now and then and since the units around are getting a bit older it is something to think about.

It's something I started thinking about after reading this reply of yours and still am. I have no other backup strategy than sticking to the CDX2... But if you mean my SN and S-400s with 'the units around it', well the amp is 8 years old, the Ovators much younger. In Naim world, 8 years are time for the capacitors to become fossils with a fishbone inside it, in my real world everything is still up and going. I remember the voice of the Nova, though, and its good looks, but I also like the idea of goin' on thinking with with my head until it's irreplaceable. A sort of B-strategy too, isn't it?

Best

Max

I meant a different kind of backup strategy. It seems that the HDX and even more UServe fail on a more than average basis and therefore an owner needs to think and consider how backups are taken. Many people have a NAS where they backup to, but I don´t think you are that kind of guy, Max.

French Rooster posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Max_B posted:

Japtimscarlet posted:

 

That Innuos does only usb. It will work on a Dac V1 which has the async usb port, but thats quite it in the Naim universe.

I don´t understand the attraction for that Innuos on this forum.

 

the innuos, the melco, the uniticore and the antipodes are the 4 existing ripper/ nas with audiophile quality.  They can be used as nas , or servers, connected to a dac.  

The melco have not integrated ripping software.  The innuos zen mini is the cheapest. Some prefer the innuos vs the core for its metadata handling....specially with classical music.

The uniticore had also several software problems until recently, so i understand why people went for innuos or melco.

 

Of course, the device must be good. But for a simple usage in the Naim universe, the only setup I see is the Innuos into a DacV1 and some poweramp. That would be a nice, simple and very good setup.

If used in a bigger Naim system, not having an asynchronous usb port on a Naim device, it would at least bring an extra usb to spdif convertor. But it´s not only that. They come with power supplies and cables too, and leaves an awful lot of tweakery to the enduser.

A Chord dac would probably fit nicely into such a system, but as we know now, the Chord sound is not everybodies taste.

Thinking of it, would a Dragonfly Red or Black work on the usb port of the Innous? That would reduce one cable and PS.

rjstaines posted:

Max_B posted:

Ok, thanks to both. It's definitely time to buy one....

Max

Max, you are absolutely in tune with the universe; your instincts are guiding you to an impecable choice of audio equipment. I can only congratulate you on your ability to identify a superb solution to storing and serving your digital music collection.

I've heard it said that the new Core would be the replacement for the HDX, but of course this is nonsense - the software offered with the Core is so disastrously lacking in functionality as to make me wonder how the devil the designers were ever allowed to bring it to the development stage, let alone to implementation on a live product.

OK, you guessed it, I'm not too keen on the Core, but love the HDX (and NS01 & U/Serve).

 

Indeed! I used to own an HDX as well as a Core and must admit that the HDX is a wondeful machine ... it has also the ability to transcode FLAC files to WAV which is lacking on the Core (or a recent software upgrade might have changed this) ...

Klout,

You did discard the Core you used to own? May I ask why?

Yes, I juist couldn't get along with it ... mainly the editing of metadata - which might be solved in the meantime - made me realise that a NAS with MinimServer is all I need; much more flexibility and easier to get along with than initially expected ... I've posted a couple of my concerns earlier:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/uniti-core-metadata

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ranscode-flac-to-wav

It's a pity that I've contacted Naim also via the helpdesk and as of tody the only answer was: "we'll have a look into this" ...

Many regards, Michel

Hmm...Thats odd. I and therefore my core have no problem showing the correct Meta data.

Max, one thing to be aware of with the HDX is that, in order to get a backup that can be restored to the HDX should the HDX fail, you will need a Nas. You can copy the files in the HDX MQ folder to a USB drive, but it won’t be restorable. Even if you have copies of the CDs, ripping them is a long job, so you will want a computer backup. And, of course, you need to keep copies of the downloads somewhere. Once you have a backup to Nas programmed, it won’t include the downloads, as they are stored in a different folder on the HDX, and must be backed up separately. 

The point I’m making is that it would be an error to think that an HDX is a one box do it all solution. It’s a great way to rip and store albums. But you still need a Nas for backup. And you need a hard wired Ethernet connection to the HDX to enable it to gather metadata while ripping, and to enable the Naim app to control it. 

Which is where the Core makes things simple; Rip CDs via the Core (I go for WAV here - mainly because, some reckon it sounds slightly better than FLAC and, why not?).  Editing Metadata and album artwork is now so easy - I can even do it on my iPhone SE.  Backup is a simple plug in job. Anything like downloads, digital recordings or other stuff that has been transcoded, metadata cleaned up etc.. on the computer I plonk on a portable HDD that is connected into the USB on the back of the Core.   I have all the music on the laptop backed up anyway, so that's fine.

p.s. the Core is plugged into an Apple Airport Express to obtain internet and network access. Very reliable. In fact the only time I've ever had an issue was when I had not kept updates in sync between iPad and iPhone and App. 

Several of us have had the opportunity to directly compare HDX, Uniti Serve, NS01 (ripper/server) and Core with the same files, same CD's ripped, all into a 500 system which used a dual 555 PS NDS as it's front end into the 552.  Without fail, each person whom listened to the line up of Naim servers recognized the superior sound quality, layers of detail, resolution and PRaT out of the Core vs the previous generations of 'ripped' media solutions.  Pro Musica in Chicago, whom may be the only dealer demo'ing the Statement Pre, serves the Statement with a Core.  HDX and NS01 have convenience which may make other options challenging.  In addition, with multiple auditions, the variables effecting switches and their power supplies can be avoided by the highly superior direct connection of a DC1 to the NDS or other streamer.  By all means, listen for one's self, but this has been the experience of those of us whom have owned the entire line up over past years of post 555 CD player options.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Max, one thing to be aware of with the HDX is that, in order to get a backup that can be restored to the HDX should the HDX fail, you will need a Nas. You can copy the files in the HDX MQ folder to a USB drive, but it won’t be restorable. Even if you have copies of the CDs, ripping them is a long job, so you will want a computer backup. And, of course, you need to keep copies of the downloads somewhere. Once you have a backup to Nas programmed, it won’t include the downloads, as they are stored in a different folder on the HDX, and must be backed up separately. 

The point I’m making is that it would be an error to think that an HDX is a one box do it all solution. It’s a great way to rip and store albums. But you still need a Nas for backup. And you need a hard wired Ethernet connection to the HDX to enable it to gather metadata while ripping, and to enable the Naim app to control it. 

 

why not usb hard drive for back up?

I explained why in my post. 

frotter16 posted:

Several of us have had the opportunity to directly compare HDX, Uniti Serve, NS01 (ripper/server) and Core with the same files, same CD's ripped, all into a 500 system which used a dual 555 PS NDS as it's front end into the 552.  Without fail, each person whom listened to the line up of Naim servers recognized the superior sound quality, layers of detail, resolution and PRaT out of the Core vs the previous generations of 'ripped' media solutions.  Pro Musica in Chicago, whom may be the only dealer demo'ing the Statement Pre, serves the Statement with a Core.  HDX and NS01 have convenience which may make other options challenging.  In addition, with multiple auditions, the variables effecting switches and their power supplies can be avoided by the highly superior direct connection of a DC1 to the NDS or other streamer.  By all means, listen for one's self, but this has been the experience of those of us whom have owned the entire line up over past years of post 555 CD player options.

I compared CDs ripped as WAV files to a QNAP NAS using my HDX with those ripped from a CORE and there was no real difference that I could hear.

@frotter16: that's interesting. What does a Core better than a HDX? Naim's German distributor Musicline told me, that in their opinion a HDX still sounds better than a Core (both with DC-1 into nDac).

Hungryhalibut posted:

I explained why in my post. 

not clear for me, sorry. But not a problem too....I just know that some members here are not using nas and have back ups on usb hard drive.  For myself i have my downloads back up on my pc and keep my 400cds if i have to rip them again.

jhs posted:

@frotter16: that's interesting. What does a Core better than a HDX? Naim's German distributor Musicline told me, that in their opinion a HDX still sounds better than a Core (both with DC-1 into nDac).

hdx is better than a stock unitserve, if used as nas.  The core is better than the stock serve but a bit inferior than the serve/ with high quality linear ps.     So i guess that the core and the hdx, used as nas, must be very very near for sound quality.