Munich

Innocent Bystander posted:

 Past success is no guarantee of getting sales today or tomorrow, as many a failed company has learnt. Only a foolish organisation thinks it knows it all, while here in particular it seems that, maybe, the powers behind them do not understand the market Naim serves.

Please clarify. Who or what is 'here'? Who or what is 'them'?

 If I end up as an audiophile Eunuch I know who to blame!!!

There again - Great HiFi or keeping the full set?  Great HiFi every time!

Christopher_M posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

 Past success is no guarantee of getting sales today or tomorrow, as many a failed company has learnt. Only a foolish organisation thinks it knows it all, while here in particular it seems that, maybe, the powers behind them do not understand the market Naim serves.

Please clarify. Who or what is 'here'? Who or what is 'them'?

‘Here’ relates to the current topic, namely Naim demonstrating its products, arising from the ND555 on show at Munich. ‘Them’ is Naim, the subject named later in the sentence.

Is there a Focal forum where participants regularly give about about crap Naim amplification making the speakers sound sh1t. 

We tend to forget there are 2 companies trying to sell their wares. Surely they both can’t be that dim if the sound is so obviously crap?

on another note Richard:

Oh, and as for placing an order on something like an ND555 before it's ready to go. I've got no problem with that. It's called having faith in a company and its products to deliver the highest level of performance, based upon a track record of having repeatedly and successfully done just that.

.....and no sign of a blushing smiley in sight!

.sjb

Hungryhalibut posted:

analogmusic posted:

some people are so serious they placed orders without hearing one 

And your point is what, exactly? I ordered a 272, a 250DR and an XPS DR without audition. I did similarly with a 555PS and a 300DR. Are you implying that anyone who buys stuff without audition is somehow foolish? What about people who order a newly released car without driving it? Or a new washing machine without testing it with their dirty socks. 

Angryhalibut?    bad weather today?

I see Naim have quietly slipped a White Paper on the ND555 onto the website.

For anyone interested in the design and engineering behind this player, it should be a good read (which I'm looking forward to doing later when I get home)

ND555 White Paper

Thanks James

Interesting comment in the paper about being the last new product with the BB1704-k DAC chipsets?

Suggests its as far as they can take it.

The Statement level streamer to come (???) will have to be based on another chip. Dave perhaps? 

Yes I remember him and Steve Sells joking about Trevor having cupboards full of them....That’s why I was a little surprised by the comment in the paper.

Sloop John B posted:

Is there a Focal forum where participants regularly give about about crap Naim amplification making the speakers sound sh1t. 

We tend to forget there are 2 companies trying to sell their wares. Surely they both can’t be that dim if the sound is so obviously crap?

 

on another note Richard:

Oh, and as for placing an order on something like an ND555 before it's ready to go. I've got no problem with that. It's called having faith in a company and its products to deliver the highest level of performance, based upon a track record of having repeatedly and successfully done just that.

.....and no sign of a blushing smiley in sight!

.sjb

 

For crap speakers the Sopra 2s sound wonderful with my NAP300DR. If this is crap bring it on. I also wonder if many of the Focal detractors haven’t even given them the benefit of an extended listen or home dem. Glad I did....

French Rooster posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

analogmusic posted:

some people are so serious they placed orders without hearing one 

And your point is what, exactly? I ordered a 272, a 250DR and an XPS DR without audition. I did similarly with a 555PS and a 300DR. Are you implying that anyone who buys stuff without audition is somehow foolish? What about people who order a newly released car without driving it? Or a new washing machine without testing it with their dirty socks. 

Angryhalibut?    bad weather today?

Regarding Angryhalibut ......... I saw a River Monster program where they had man eating Halibut!!! ...... you would not want to cross that sucker.........

Just had a quick scan and can see the comment in the WP - I read that as the last commercial product as in commercial products in general, not the last Naim product to use this (as most other manufacturers have gone off and use AKM, ESS etc DAC chips). Those cupboards are going to run out one day though...

Gazza posted:

I like the look, but not the price st £45k

I don’t like either the look or the price, but I’m hoping I might like the sound and if so then also hoping there might be trickle down to a new range of Fact speakers perhaps. The current range is pretty long in the tooth and there’s now a huge gulf in price between existing top dog, Fact12 and the new flagship. Hopefully any new models will be able to do without the odd looking ‘thing in the middle’ of the Fenestria. 

kevin J Carden posted:

Gazza posted:

I like the look, but not the price st £45k

I don’t like either the look or the price, but I’m hoping I might like the sound and if so then also hoping there might be trickle down to a new range of Fact speakers perhaps. The current range is pretty long in the tooth and there’s now a huge gulf in price between existing top dog, Fact12 ant the new model. Hopefully any new models will not be able to do without the odd looking ‘thing in the middle’ of the Fenestria. 

Yes I saw the various unveiling pics on my instagram feed and then the whole thing a bit earlier. It's different !

Alba1320 posted:

james n posted:

SNIP

It'll be interesting to see if a discrete R2R DAC solution may appear in a Statement level player but that's me just speculating !

You're not the only one, James:

Alba1320 posted

I had hoped for in-house, fully discrete...

SNIP

...but perhaps the (potential) Statement source 'elephant in the room' ruled that out?

SNIP

Great minds think alike? (Or fools seldom differ? )

Perhaps they have looked at such things, and didn't feel there was much (any?) advantage over their 'chip of choice', which they evidently have much enthusiasm for.

Or, perhaps the aforementioned elephant is the 'explanation'...

 

Interesting...  

It's pretty full in the ND555 classic size box but with a bit more real estate to play with (say if a bigger Statement sized box was available), then perhaps a discrete Sells R2R converter could appear...

But let's enjoy the ND555 first

I have just compared the internal layouts of NDS and ND555 ...... there are similarities .... but there are some significant changes especially on the analogue output stages ......... I read somewhere that this now has some local dr regulation .... I cant see this.... Sonically my bet is ... it will sound quite different and better ......... almost like the effect of dr-ing the  555ps.

Alba1320 posted:

Christopher_M posted:

analogmusic posted:

Naim are not really helping themselves sell a 13,000 GBP streamer then ?

The NDX 2 and ND555 should be on 2 similar systems to enable people to hear what the ND555 is adding to the table.

Always love it when Naim get business advice from their customers.

Even now I can picture the Friday lunchtime scenes of jollity in the canteen..... 'Did you see that such and such on the forum?, what a laugh!'

 

Indeed. I'm sure that a company that has 'only' been around for 45 years could do with a few tips from forumites...

Naim is a small business, many people here maybe managed ör Managing far more complex brands, Companies.... 

Also companies are spending millions for Consumer/Customer Feedback as Marketing Research, we are doing it free

so if there is a Company not listening their customers/consumers, wont laugh very long...  or maybe sold to a Fund for survival...

there are millions of comments about everything why being like a school boy bullies with Analog ? 

The motto was audition, trust your Ears,all of a sudden became trust Naim preorder.... just for sake of being bully?

by tha way i might pre Order a nd555, i am süre it will sound Great and will look good on a Fraim...

Hungryhalibut posted:

We could have a competition between Naim Intended Performance and Chord Realistic Audio Performance...

That must be N I P  and  C R A P  then must give it a read when I have got really bad insomnia

Tabby cat posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

We could have a competition between Naim Intended Performance and Chord Realistic Audio Performance...

That must be N I P  and  C R A P  then must give it a read when I have got really bad insomnia

No mention yet of Linn Intended Musical Performance

Richieroo posted:

I have just compared the internal layouts of NDS and ND555 ...... there are similarities .... but there are some significant changes especially on the analogue output stages ......... I read somewhere that this now has some local dr regulation .... I cant see this.... Sonically my bet is ... it will sound quite different and better ......... almost like the effect of dr-ing the  555ps.

The DR regulators are on separate PCBs under the main board.

Richieroo posted:

French Rooster posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

analogmusic posted:

some people are so serious they placed orders without hearing one 

And your point is what, exactly? I ordered a 272, a 250DR and an XPS DR without audition. I did similarly with a 555PS and a 300DR. Are you implying that anyone who buys stuff without audition is somehow foolish? What about people who order a newly released car without driving it? Or a new washing machine without testing it with their dirty socks. 

Angryhalibut?    bad weather today?

Regarding Angryhalibut ......... I saw a River Monster program where they had man eating Halibut!!! ...... you would not want to cross that sucker.........

ouah! the halibut can have 4 meters and 600 pounds weight.  Which monster can eat that?  king kong?

Just got back to the hotel, focal utopias made my head hurt, the smaller katas or whatever were more tolerable but still sounded forced with a papery colouration, which is quite odd as I doubt they contain any paper. Best sound of the day was the big MBLs which I’m still trying to forget but heard classical only, would need to hear them play some Motorhead, after I’ve won the lottery. 

Has anyone heard any decent size mid range speakers which I night be interested in?

Those utopias are really strange .... there appears to be like a sterile glare to them that to me sounds very dated..... Maybe the French interiors are very plush and absorbent. ... and they use lush big valve amps.....not the pacy ..naims ....