Munich

KRM posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I agree .. I can’t remember from my recent Naim briefings whether the NDX2 is closer in architecture to the ND555 than the NDS.

Hi Simon,

My dealer tried to suggest that the NDX2 will be better than the NDS. I might have accepted that if it had two burndy connections and if I hadn’t been told that it was very good but not as good as NDS at the Bristol Show. Perhaps Bert can get a third opinion today?

At the briefing that Simon mentioned when I spoke to a Naim guy he thought it would sound as good, though I think we would be talking about one 555ps for each product. Perhaps the NDS with two psu would be better, but most would not use 2 PSU.

Oh well, I guess we’ll find out in the fullness of time. It’s hard to believe when you see those pictures of the NDX2 internals with a great big toroidal transformer. 

Thanks very much for the reports and pictures, much appreciated.

For those who comment that this kind of show is no way to evaluate kit, I have to disagree. There are some good sized rooms at Munich. There are (IIRC) 4 corridors of pretty much identical rooms. Last year these rooms contained bad, ok, good and excellent sounding systems. Given that some of these rooms contained excellent sounding systems it seems to tell me that the room and show environment is not the problem...

KRM posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I agree .. I can’t remember from my recent Naim briefings whether the NDX2 is closer in architecture to the ND555 than the NDS.

Hi Simon,

My dealer tried to suggest that the NDX2 will be better than the NDS. I might have accepted that if it had two burndy connections and if I hadn’t been told that it was very good but not as good as NDS at the Bristol Show. Perhaps Bert can get a third opinion today?

Keith, well I guess one simply has to listen... also there is massive attention to detail in regards to ground plane modulation and decoupling in the new streamers, so the benefit of two power suppliesmight be mitigated somewhat.... however clearly what will be different will be the presence of an active powersupply in the ndx2 chassis compared to off board NDX2 powersupply (like NDS and nd555)

However one question I have since my recent Naim visit... with the new streamer devices there has to be compliance with new EU consumer power efficiency regulations... so there is quite a lot of attention to detail with standby modes, warm start, etc and there is a little SMPS to manage these functions that gets deactivated when the device is fully powered on.... however I can’t see how this works at all if the power is via an external PSU... in which case the external PSU transformer and regulators are always consuming power whether the streamer is on or not....hmm one for investigation....

Gazza posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

Huge speakers..

 

I remember this very pair of speakers from the Naim factory demo room. Many of us did not like the sound, but the guy on my right hand side really liked them. To my left a well known forum contributor could not believe his ears......really did not like them. That’s speakers for you...

Those are the big brothers of the ones we heard at Naim. We heard the Scala Utopia Evo, which cost £28,000, while the Grande Utopia EM being used at Munich are £130,000.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Gazza posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

Huge speakers..

 

I remember this very pair of speakers from the Naim factory demo room. Many of us did not like the sound, but the guy on my right hand side really liked them. To my left a well known forum contributor could not believe his ears......really did not like them. That’s speakers for you...

Those are the big brothers of the ones we heard at Naim. We heard the Scala Utopia Evo, which cost £28,000, while the Grande Utopia EM being used at Munich are £130,000 ...

... and quite ugly, for my taste!

Hungryhalibut posted:

Gazza posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

Huge speakers..

 

I remember this very pair of speakers from the Naim factory demo room. Many of us did not like the sound, but the guy on my right hand side really liked them. To my left a well known forum contributor could not believe his ears......really did not like them. That’s speakers for you...

Those are the big brothers of the ones we heard at Naim. We heard the Scala Utopia Evo, which cost £28,000, while the Grande Utopia EM being used at Munich are £130,000.

 

You weren’t impressed with the ones at Naim, Nigel. (I’m using the polite form of words here). Perhaps the £130,000 version would allow you to relax more into the music.............   

Just to add some facts:

The speakers in Munich are Utopia Evo, an updated version to be released in the summer.

A very reputable source (in my opinion, the most reputable) from Naim was distinctively lukewarm about the effect of adding two power supplies vs. just one. 

My observation about the lack of ability to critically assess performance of components in a show environment referred to the fact that one listens to a system within which a component resides, that is at the time also interacting with a largely unknown room. I respect those who feel they can get decisive insight in such circumstances. I do not feel comfortable judging like that.

Bert Schurink posted:

Demo pictures

Nice remote as well

The remote on the right is for a Statement amplifier. In the middle, hard to discern, is a remote for the new streamers.

Bert Schurink posted:

Huge speakers..

 

Wow, absolutely stunning...

My dealer has just posted a video of these in Black, being unveiled at the show.....it’s not good for the old ticker at this time of the morning...????

J Novak posted:

Just to add some facts:

The speakers in Munich are Utopia Evo, an updated version to be released in the summer.

A very reputable source (in my opinion, the most reputable) from Naim was distinctively lukewarm about the effect of adding two power supplies vs. just one. 

My observation about the lack of ability to critically assess performance of components in a show environment referred to the fact that one listens to a system within which a component resides, that is at the time also interacting with a largely unknown room. I respect those who feel they can get decisive insight in such circumstances. I do not feel comfortable judging like that.

No, you're right about assessing components. However, it is possible to comparatively compare systems between similar rooms. I just don't subscribe to the idea that rooms at shows tell you nothing. When one system can sound good but next door there's a system in the same shape room built of the same materials that sounds bad, that is a useful comparison. If all the systems in all the same type of room sound awful then its possible to consider blaming the rooms. I have yet to go to a show where that was the case.

@Bert, many thanks for your input to Munich and the new Naim streamers. Great pictures by the way. 

I also look forward to hearing your thoughts on the ND555 once you’re up and running. 

Keep up the good work. 

sunbeamgls posted:

J Novak posted:

Just to add some facts:

The speakers in Munich are Utopia Evo, an updated version to be released in the summer.

A very reputable source (in my opinion, the most reputable) from Naim was distinctively lukewarm about the effect of adding two power supplies vs. just one. 

My observation about the lack of ability to critically assess performance of components in a show environment referred to the fact that one listens to a system within which a component resides, that is at the time also interacting with a largely unknown room. I respect those who feel they can get decisive insight in such circumstances. I do not feel comfortable judging like that.

No, you're right about assessing components. However, it is possible to comparatively compare systems between similar rooms. I just don't subscribe to the idea that rooms at shows tell you nothing. When one system can sound good but next door there's a system in the same shape room built of the same materials that sounds bad, that is a useful comparison. If all the systems in all the same type of room sound awful then its possible to consider blaming the rooms. I have yet to go to a show where that was the case.

Completely on the same page! Some systems sounded sublime whereas others had great expectations bestowed upon them, and underdelivered unfortunately. Most of the rooms had treatment, too. No point in blaming the room at all.

nbpf posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Gazza posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

Huge speakers..

 

I remember this very pair of speakers from the Naim factory demo room. Many of us did not like the sound, but the guy on my right hand side really liked them. To my left a well known forum contributor could not believe his ears......really did not like them. That’s speakers for you...

Those are the big brothers of the ones we heard at Naim. We heard the Scala Utopia Evo, which cost £28,000, while the Grande Utopia EM being used at Munich are £130,000 ...

... and quite ugly, for my taste!

‘Dusty Bin’ always comes to mind when I see these disjointed cyclopean Focals leering down.

G

I actually thought that the Scala Evo looked rather lovely in the shiny blue, which is more or less identical to our car. Sounded dreadful, but looked good.

Bert Schurink posted:

Huge speakers..

 

Ooh, I love that colour, magnificent!  Just the right size for PB too after his ARTs. 

Why did the Dr Who Daleks never have the imagination to paint themselves this colour?
Or is this the new, next generation Dalek...

Yours light heartedly, FT

KRM posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I agree .. I can’t remember from my recent Naim briefings whether the NDX2 is closer in architecture to the ND555 than the NDS.

Hi Simon,

My dealer tried to suggest that the NDX2 will be better than the NDS. I might have accepted that if it had two burndy connections and if I hadn’t been told that it was very good but not as good as NDS at the Bristol Show. Perhaps Bert can get a third opinion today?

So even dealers aren’t above a bit of speculation! Mine suggested that NDX2 was more about improved functionality than sound quality. But then, he was trying (unsuccessfully) to sell me an XPS at the time.....

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I agree .. I can’t remember from my recent Naim briefings whether the NDX2 is closer in architecture to the ND555 than the NDS.

I think Simon that the ND555 and the NDX2 are very close in architecture, as described to us by Steve, but both are completely different to the NDS of course.

best

David

Does anyone know if the ND555 price includes a couple of Burndies? Sorry if this has already been answered.

Bert. Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to help us share your experiences. I am particularly interested in any subjective or objective information on the ND555. In addition, I've enjoyed all your other contributions very much. A really good read. Thanks again. I look forward to the next installment(s).

Guten tag,

exciting thread we have here!

Anyone here heard the ND5 XS 2 performing yet? I will for one be very interested in your comments, you know things like "it blew the roof off" or "jaws started dropping left right & centre whoever dared go near it"

ChrisSU posted:

So even dealers aren’t above a bit of speculation! Mine suggested that NDX2 was more about improved functionality than sound quality. But then, he was trying (unsuccessfully) to sell me an XPS at the time.....

I think I would get a new dealer... even the new ND5 XS2 Naim said SQ was prime and the additional features were paired right back to give the best SQ for the buck ... these new streamer are all about SQ, with features firmly second... that was the distinct impression I got when talking to Naim and listening to them..

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

ChrisSU posted:

So even dealers aren’t above a bit of speculation! Mine suggested that NDX2 was more about improved functionality than sound quality. But then, he was trying (unsuccessfully) to sell me an XPS at the time.....

I think I would get a new dealer... even the new ND5 XS2 Naim said SQ was prime and the additional features were paired right back to give the best SQ for the buck ... these new streamer are all about SQ, with features firmly second... that was the distinct impression I got when talking to Naim and listening to them..

I agree. That seems very odd advice for a Naim dealer to be giving.  

Bert Schurink posted:

Some more demo

 

the presentation seems to be about the speakers than the electronics. .first photo  is just the naim sign above.  

Harry posted:

Bert. Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to help us share your experiences. I am particularly interested in any subjective or objective information on the ND555. In addition, I've enjoyed all your other contributions very much. A really good read. Thanks again. I look forward to the next installment(s).

Harry earlier in the thread I tried to describe the ND555 it quite some detail - right now that’s all I would be able to say until I would have heard another demo in another context, or heard it in my own environment .... I was mighty impressed and can belief it’s the best Naim source ever...