Amp choice for small studio/listening system.

Posted by: BenW on 10 May 2018

I have a dilemma..

Putting together a small system to use for two purposes - a small studio for messing about with electronic music etc, and will also be used as a second system for general listening in that area. (I know, needs are fundamentally different for those applications, so this is a compromise all the way!)  Main system is PMC/Naim in another location and won't be touched.

What I already have: 

 

The gap that needs filling is an amplifier, to slot between the audiolab Dac and the PMC DB1i monitors.

Funds are tight, so I've been looking s/h, and this is where it gets interesting. with a sub-£500 budget, there are a few options worth looking at - 

 

What would you do? 

all other suggestions appreciated!  I don't 'need' integrated though its undeniably useful for if needs change -  so am I going to get a better amp for the ££ sticking to straight power amp?

Posted on: 10 May 2018 by Halloween Man

Easy one, used NAP100, providing it has enough juice to drive your lovely PMC speakers

Posted on: 10 May 2018 by Foot tapper

Or a NAP140...

Posted on: 10 May 2018 by Innocent Bystander

If using to monitor recordings other than for your own personal consumption, I suggest the amp should be  as near neutral in sound as possible - and, although opinions are varied there does seem to be a majority view that suggests Naim amps might not meet this requirement, and the lower down the range and older the model the more that may be the case. Different of course if the purpose is just listening for your own pleasure, when this aspect of the sound might not be important.

For good quality and the ability to have a good grip on the DB1 I suggest considering the likes of Bryston (very possibly used by PMC to develop the speaker): the 3B would be adequate - of course 4B better, but a lot more expensive - and old ones aren’t a problem: designed for professional use they have a 20 year unconditional warranty and are good for a lot more than that, and without a need for servicing every 10 years. But you may have to wait a while for one to pop up as cheap as those old Naim ones seem to go for, or be prepared to buy from Canada or USA and pay for voltage conversion as well as postage. I have seen old 3Bs Down to around the £500 mark - but I think that may have been Canadian ads, so the shipping and conversion on top so could push up too far. A good place to look (and for other brands) is hifi shark, which trawls multiple sites

 

Posted on: 10 May 2018 by DC71

I really like the DB1i's, but given the dual purpose you have in mind, I would seriously look at swapping them out for a pair of decent powered studio monitors.

I run JBL lsr305 in my bedroom system and they work really well even with a modest Bluesound node 2, and even better on my main system.

I expect your MDAC plus (one of the best mid range DACs I auditioned) would sound great paired with any of the JBL, Yamaha HS range or Mackie powered speakers, each of which have a slightly different presentation but are all pretty neutral and accurate, with the added benefit of some sound adjustment to accommodate different room/placements.

Just an option to think about..

Posted on: 10 May 2018 by BenW

lol - only just bought them!  There was a little bias tbh, I love the PMC sound having had FB1i's for the last decade, and while I'd nearly purchased the Yamaha HS8s, after a number of listens I just found them far too harsh. Neutral is one thing, but listener fatigue quite another - weighed up the options, and the DB1s were more appealing despite needing an amp. (also, picking up an absolutely pristine pair for a bargain price helped too, pretty much unused and not the slightest blemish and cost far less than the HS8s!)  TBH, since this is really only for my own enjoyment, I'm not too bothered about that compromise, and just might (as usual) be overthinking all this!

I'm tempted toward the NAP100 now..  much as I love the old CB kit, reading into the results some have found when feeding the old stuff with modern digital sources (witch hat attenuators etc) I'm wondering if the NAP100 might be more tolerant than the older kit.  There's also a couple on that well known auction site at around the £500 mark, so it's pushing the budget but would be a solid solution..  Bryston is an obvious pairing, but seems well out of price range for something decent.  If that changed in the future, great - and the little NAP would be simple to repurpose..

The M-Dac + is indeed a lovely bit of kit, and using the balanced outputs from it into the monoblocks I use for headphones its just sublime.  Feeding a nice Naim amp sounds like a positive step to me 

Cheers all!  (also if you're parting with a NAP100 for a pleasing price, you know what to do!) 

Posted on: 10 May 2018 by DC71

Oh.. haha then I totally understand on the PMCs! I ran FB1's and OB1i for some time and would have been happy with DB1i in a smaller room.

I haven't tried it but I would've thought that the MDAC+ could pair just as nicely with one of the older Naits as with a NAP100 (which for me won't get the best out of the PMC's for the money). Alternatives would be an Exposure integrated or power amp (3010S2D paired nicely with PMC OB1i in my room but 2010 range would be fine for DB1's), or possibly a Schiit Vidar which may be around the same price as a used NAP100.

Posted on: 11 May 2018 by Huge

If you are serious about editing / mastering electronic music you'll, also need a sub and a DSP controller to integrate it's bass output into your speakers and into the room.

Given the budget this will have to come later.

Posted on: 11 May 2018 by Eloise

Not dismissing the suggestions already made but alternatives: not sure if you can still get them new ... but what about a pair of PMC / Bryson amp packs or the later Flying Mole design that were sold to "activate" the DB1 (and others)?  Or, while it's just not cricket Naim ... but for your use case with the DB1s a couple of Hypex nCore or even the older Hypex UcD design would likely work well.

Of course the NAP100 would also be good ... 

Posted on: 11 May 2018 by BenW

I'm afraid that budget precludes any of the Bryston or similar options.

So - revised question - There's a NAP150 at AudioT near me for just £300.  That looks like great value for money.. would a £550 used NAP100 offer a better SQ given the near double price?  (in these rarified forums, it seems daft quibbling over an amp costing less than some cables, but here we are!)

Posted on: 11 May 2018 by BenW

Well, it's sorted!  Thanks for all the responses!

I went to Audio T and looked at the NAP150 they had there.. absolutely showroom condition, original boxes and wrap and paperwork, two snaics, original registration card (unused) and mains cable, it looked and sounded absolutely as new..  even gets a warranty.

£300 later, it's home and hooked up and man those DB1i's sound sweet! can't wait til its all fully warmed up. They may be 'better' amps, but right now I simply can't conceive how you'd achieve better for that money..  nice and punchy too..  very, very pleased.  Radio Paradise on and doing it's thing - lovely.

Thanks again!

Posted on: 11 May 2018 by beatsbooster

" £300 later, it's home and hooked up and man those DB1i's sound sweet! can't wait til its all fully warmed up. They may be 'better' amps, but right now I simply can't conceive how you'd achieve better for that money.."

Great to hear that, the best amp is the one you can afford. you will eventually have the budget to buy your dream system if you dont spend all your money now!

 

 

Posted on: 11 May 2018 by Foot tapper

Fantastic BENW.  There is something intensely satisfying about putting together a system that, while modest by Naim standards, just gets out of the way and reproduces wonderful, engaging music.  Enjoy.

Best regards, FT

Posted on: 11 May 2018 by jlarsson

Naim amps are a good choice - they are musical and you can work long times without fatigue, a big advantage.

But when mixing you need to have decent acoustics and avoid big holes i response. The usual advice is to sit 38% from the front wall and especially avoid having your ears at half-way points (between walls or between floor and ceiling).. 

And beware of any desk surface which can l9.