Nait XS + Flatcap Upgrade Quandry

How are you currently using the Flatcap in your system? I had the same system (Nait XS/CD5x/Stageline/FCXS) for three years. I found best results with the FCXS powering the Nait XS and CD5x, and Stageline on Aux2. A Hiline on the CD5x was a worthy improvement. You might also consider adding a Powerline; try it on each component and see where you like it best.  From there maybe add a second Powerline. You could also add a second Flatcap so you'd have a dedicated PSU on each of your Naim components. Lots of cables to manage and additional shelf space required in that scenario.

I went from the Nait XS to a SN2. Big improvement in all aspects hifi and additional command of the speakers, but far more revealing of the sources than the Nait XS. For me that translated into less of my music holdings being enjoyable with the SN2. Better overall musical involvement with the Nait XS's more relaxed presentation. A jump to the SN2 might be what you are looking for, but it may also require a cascade of upgrades to your sources to get system balance and there's no guarantee you'll end up with a more musically involving system. Many here will call the SN2 a no-brainer upgrade, but tread cautiously. Hopefully you can utilize a dealer for home demos.

Source first maybe but which one? The CD5x is a cracking player and is relatively unfussy compared to the CDX2, (how is your system housed?) I say leave well alone. That leaves the ND5 which rather depends how you use it, if the CD5x is largely ignored because of it that may be a good point of attack but it’s a match for your amp, a matching ps for it would be a dead end so either leave well alone or aim high. The possibilities for vinyl are endless but it dependes how many discs you have whether they’re  worth exploring.

As [@mention:1566878603909035] says, it may be better to leave alone and just look at any unfinished business like racking or cables. If it has been untouched for a decade, the speaker cables may benefit from a fresh cut and retermination.

The thing about well balanced systems is that any change sets of a chain reaction that easily leads to a whole top to bottom system change because when you upgrade something in a balanced system, you know that component X is being held by componet Y and so on.

If you don't rule that out, you could potentially get things ready for when you move further by adding an PSU to the ND5XS and swapping a Flatcap on the Nait for a Hicap. That would not chuck things out of balance and then you'd be in good shape to replace the integrated with pre/power in the future or the ND5XS with one of the excellent NDX units bound to flood the second hand market soon.

There are some wise words in your replies. I have an XS set and it's a definite sweet spot in the range.

Upgrade the amplifier by all means (I've done it in the past). But be sure to improve your digital sources too, so that you find another sweet spot. Just an opinion. It's very easy to fall for the cult of the amplifier.

Good luck and please tell us how it turns out.

Chris

joerand posted:

How are you currently using the Flatcap in your system? I had the same system (Nait XS/CD5x/Stageline/FCXS) for three years. I found best results with the FCXS powering the Nait XS and CD5x, and Stageline on Aux2. 

I went from the Nait XS to a SN2. Big improvement in all aspects hifi and additional command of the speakers, but far more revealing of the sources than the Nait XS. For me that translated into less of my music holdings being enjoyable with the SN2. Better overall musical involvement with the Nait XS's more relaxed presentation. A jump to the SN2 might be what you are looking for, but it may also require a cascade of upgrades to your sources to get system balance and there's no guarantee you'll end up with a more musically involving system. Many here will call the SN2 a no-brainer upgrade, but tread cautiously. Hopefully you can utilize a dealer for home demos.

I am using the Flatcap exactly as you described from your setup.

yeti42 posted:

Source first maybe but which one? The CD5x is a cracking player and is relatively unfussy compared to the CDX2, (how is your system housed?) I say leave well alone. That leaves the ND5 which rather depends how you use it, if the CD5x is largely ignored because of it that may be a good point of attack but it’s a match for your amp, a matching ps for it would be a dead end so either leave well alone or aim high. The possibilities for vinyl are endless but it dependes how many discs you have whether they’re  worth exploring.

These days I rarely use the CD5x and while I enjoy vinyl, I don't use my turntable enough to warrant upgrading there.  My primary source is the ND5.  I want to see how things settle out with the new Naim streamers before looking to make a move with that source.  The DAC/Streamer segment is so active these days. 

feeling_zen posted:

As [@mention:1566878603909035] says, it may be better to leave alone and just look at any unfinished business like racking or cables. If it has been untouched for a decade, the speaker cables may benefit from a fresh cut and retermination.

The thing about well balanced systems is that any change sets of a chain reaction that easily leads to a whole top to bottom system change because when you upgrade something in a balanced system, you know that component X is being held by componet Y and so on.

If you don't rule that out, you could potentially get things ready for when you move further by adding an PSU to the ND5XS and swapping a Flatcap on the Nait for a Hicap. That would not chuck things out of balance and then you'd be in good shape to replace the integrated with pre/power in the future or the ND5XS with one of the excellent NDX units bound to flood the second hand market soon.

My old speaker cables were too short for my new home, so I have new ones in place.  I upgraded the power cables with replacements recommended by AV Options.  Very interesting thought about the Hicap.

Upgrading effectively from a nicely balanced system can be a bit tricky. Upset the balance, and you end up on an expensive box-swapping road. A good dealer will be able to help with this, or if buying used, be prepared to sell on any new purchases that don’t deliver what you want. 

The safe bet will be a source upgrade first. Then maybe Supernait or 202/200.

Nait XS + Flatcap XS to SN2 was a very worthwhile upgrade ime however it is more demanding of source, as others have pointed out. Which makes me wonder whether a switch to maybe a 272/200DR could kill all the birds with one stone whilst satisfying the upgrade bug. That is as long as CD reply is not top of your agenda.

Back at the beginning of 2018 I moved from a ND5XS & NAIT XS 2 to a NDX & SN2 and I am quite pleased with the upgrade. The upgrade included the source along with the integrated amp. I also listened to the 272 & 250 DR at the time but choose to go with the NDX & SN2 at that time. I do not think you would be disappointed with the SN2 but do agree with others that you should upgrade the source as well. 

Good luck with your decision.

joerand posted:

I went from the Nait XS to a SN2. Big improvement in all aspects hifi and additional command of the speakers, but far more revealing of the sources than the Nait XS. For me that translated into less of my music holdings being enjoyable with the SN2. Better overall musical involvement with the Nait XS's more relaxed presentation. A jump to the SN2 might be what you are looking for, but it may also require a cascade of upgrades to your sources to get system balance and there's no guarantee you'll end up with a more musically involving system. Many here will call the SN2 a no-brainer upgrade, but tread cautiously. Hopefully you can utilize a dealer for home demos.

I followed exactly the same path, and I totally agree with Joerand. The Supernait 2 was only marginally better - but things improved markedly with a CDX2 and XPS. I wouldn't go for a 202/200 (to my mind, not as good as the Supernait 2 - that is open to debate, of course) nor would I add a HiCap to the XS, as I found this changed the nature of the sound.

I have a full XS series separates stack based on the ND5XS (as listed in my profile). A few months ago I decided to upgrade my amplifier to a SN2 or 202 / 200 but by chance I got a good deal on a XP5XS PSU.  I couldn’t resist and went down that route and so glad I did.  

For a relatively small outlay I got a massive uplift in SQ.  Every aspect of the sound improved and the extra oomph in the bass makes it sounds like I have an amplifier upgrade too.  I would describe my current system as perfectly balanced.

So in summary I agree with what others have posted.  Upgrade the source before the amp.

Went from 122/150/flatcap to Supernait (original).  I listen to music almost every day now (used to be weekly) and most importantly I am enjoying every moment.  A Chord Hugo is the source.  It's nice to have a simplified setup (ie low box count) sounding so good.  

Mayor West posted:

Nait XS + Flatcap XS to SN2 was a very worthwhile upgrade ime however it is more demanding of source, as others have pointed out. Which makes me wonder whether a switch to maybe a 272/200DR could kill all the birds with one stone whilst satisfying the upgrade bug. That is as long as CD reply is not top of your agenda.

How well does the 272 hold up these days to the newer standalone streamers?  Since I rarely use my CD5x I am thinking of selling it.  I rip my CDs and stream the FLAC files.  I enjoy vinyl from time to time, but these days it's all about streamed content -- some from my NAS box (either UPNP or more typically via Roon) and some from Tidal.  I think of the ND5 XS as a transitional piece of gear.  I could pick up a used NDX or get one of the new Naim Streamers or a Chord DAC etc.  I need not worry about any of that if I went to the 272 but am worried that now is perhaps not the right time to go that route.  If I take a step back, I realize that I'm talking less about a component upgrade to an existing system but essentially a complete swap of gear.  SN2 plus new digital source or 202/200 plus new digital source.  Right?

If you like Roon, I would consider waiting for the new streamers as they support it (but you already knew that, as you have an Atom!) If you plan to upgrade your amp too, that should probably be an NDX2, whereas your current system would match an ND5XS 2. Alternatively, a separate DAC with ND5 (old or new) as transport. 

ChrisSU posted:

If you like Roon, I would consider waiting for the new streamers as they support it (but you already knew that, as you have an Atom!) If you plan to upgrade your amp too, that should probably be an NDX2, whereas your current system would match an ND5XS 2. Alternatively, a separate DAC with ND5 (old or new) as transport. 

What amp and preamp would you pair with the NDX2 200/202?  Or perhaps a Supernait 2 and the NDX 2?

Then again, with a Sonore Bridge on my network (which I already have in place) I can treat any UPNP device as a Roon ready endpoint.  That's how I'm using Roon with my ND5 XS at present.  So if people are particularly keen on the NDX then I can look to purchasing one of those used when the new streamers come out.

Supernait 2 + NDX vs 202/205/NDX?

So many alternatives.  This is maddening.

RERobbins posted:

ChrisSU posted:

If you like Roon, I would consider waiting for the new streamers as they support it (but you already knew that, as you have an Atom!) If you plan to upgrade your amp too, that should probably be an NDX2, whereas your current system would match an ND5XS 2. Alternatively, a separate DAC with ND5 (old or new) as transport. 

What amp and preamp would you pair with the NDX2 200/202?  Or perhaps a Supernait 2 and the NDX 2?

Personally I prefer 202/200 to Supernait, but either would be a good match. 282/200 is what I use now, with NDX.