You are happy with both your high quality Digital front end and your Record Player. How much do you use the latter?

jfritzen posted:

Anyone listening to SACD? I saw no one in this thread mention this explicitly, perhaps implicitly subsumed under CD replay. Naim never built a SACD player and I don't own a proper player myself, not counting an old Pioneer DVD/SACD player.

SACD was often declared dead, and for rock/pop it apparently is, but there is still quite a number of new releases in classical music, according to hraudio.net. 

I still buy SACD's today. Was a believer in the format from when it first appeared. SACD isn't dead in the rock/pop or any other genre for that matter. Have a look at the Music Direct site, it's a real SACD treasure trove. And off course there are DSD downloads available now for a while. Don't play SACD's on a cheap DVD/SACD player, SACD's will sound the same on these things as a redbook CD and is just marketing nonsense.

Others have "crunched the numbers" on this thread so I will leave it up to them if they care to have a go at this one.

A brief look leads me to come to the conclusion that many of us have invested in extremely expensive playback systems yet there seems to be a large amount of time spent using these expensive systems to listen to low resolution internet radio.  I see many say that a large number of their daytime listening hours are spent this way

fernar posted:

Jrfitzen - I think SACD (and to some extend DVD-A) was a sadly missed opportunity for higher quality sound... It was a shame that Naim didnt come out with a SACD player - clearly they knew how to make CD sound exceptional, so would have thought that could have also provided an exceptional SACD player - I guess the volume opportunity could not be justified....

On the other hand I know that the some of the SACD disks I do have, are not always a major step up from the CD equivalent - mainly I think due to not taking care on the production. A well produced SACD can give a serious uplift in quality for both stereo  and multi-channel.

I have a number of SACD disks (around 30) - and currently listen to them via an Oppo 205 - I am looking at the offerings from PS Audio or high-end Yamaha... I would love to be able to afford a dCD player - but for the amount of time I spend actually listening to disks as a source, I cant really justify the cost of a dCS setup.

Drikus posted:

jfritzen posted:

Anyone listening to SACD? I saw no one in this thread mention this explicitly, perhaps implicitly subsumed under CD replay. Naim never built a SACD player and I don't own a proper player myself, not counting an old Pioneer DVD/SACD player.

SACD was often declared dead, and for rock/pop it apparently is, but there is still quite a number of new releases in classical music, according to hraudio.net. 

I still buy SACD's today. Was a believer in the format from when it first appeared. SACD isn't dead in the rock/pop or any other genre for that matter. Have a look at the Music Direct site, it's a real SACD treasure trove. And off course there are DSD downloads available now for a while. Don't play SACD's on a cheap DVD/SACD player, SACD's will sound the same on these things as a redbook CD and is just marketing nonsense.

After many years of saying NO Linn recently introduced DSD playback to the KDS.  I purchased a few Dylan DSD downloads.

WOW!

In case you missed that - WOW!

glevethan posted:

fernar posted:

Jrfitzen - I think SACD (and to some extend DVD-A) was a sadly missed opportunity for higher quality sound... It was a shame that Naim didnt come out with a SACD player - clearly they knew how to make CD sound exceptional, so would have thought that could have also provided an exceptional SACD player - I guess the volume opportunity could not be justified....

On the other hand I know that the some of the SACD disks I do have, are not always a major step up from the CD equivalent - mainly I think due to not taking care on the production. A well produced SACD can give a serious uplift in quality for both stereo  and multi-channel.

I have a number of SACD disks (around 30) - and currently listen to them via an Oppo 205 - I am looking at the offerings from PS Audio or high-end Yamaha... I would love to be able to afford a dCD player - but for the amount of time I spend actually listening to disks as a source, I cant really justify the cost of a dCS setup.

Drikus posted:

jfritzen posted:

Anyone listening to SACD? I saw no one in this thread mention this explicitly, perhaps implicitly subsumed under CD replay. Naim never built a SACD player and I don't own a proper player myself, not counting an old Pioneer DVD/SACD player.

SACD was often declared dead, and for rock/pop it apparently is, but there is still quite a number of new releases in classical music, according to hraudio.net. 

I still buy SACD's today. Was a believer in the format from when it first appeared. SACD isn't dead in the rock/pop or any other genre for that matter. Have a look at the Music Direct site, it's a real SACD treasure trove. And off course there are DSD downloads available now for a while. Don't play SACD's on a cheap DVD/SACD player, SACD's will sound the same on these things as a redbook CD and is just marketing nonsense.

After many years of saying NO Linn recently introduced DSD playback to the KDS.  I purchased a few Dylan DSD downloads.

WOW!

In case you missed that - WOW!

That's strange this NO coming from Linn because they released a great number of SACD's until a while ago and I've got a whole bunch of them. Seems like a natural next step then for them to offer DSD downloads/playback...

fernar posted:

Jrfitzen - I think SACD (and to some extend DVD-A) was a sadly missed opportunity for higher quality sound... It was a shame that Naim didnt come out with a SACD player - clearly they knew how to make CD sound exceptional, so would have thought that could have also provided an exceptional SACD player - I guess the volume opportunity could not be justified....

On the other hand I know that the some of the SACD disks I do have, are not always a major step up from the CD equivalent - mainly I think due to not taking care on the production. A well produced SACD can give a serious uplift in quality for both stereo  and multi-channel.

I have a number of SACD disks (around 30) - and currently listen to them via an Oppo 205 - I am looking at the offerings from PS Audio or high-end Yamaha... I would love to be able to afford a dCD player - but for the amount of time I spend actually listening to disks as a source, I cant really justify the cost of a dCS setup.

for my music interests, i would have maybe 6 or 7 sacd which i would buy on the whole sacd market.  For classical music, there is more choices....    

Well Tempered Versalex 100% 

I have had a CDS3/555PS alongside a middling LP12 and it was 30/70.

Now it’s just vinyl for me. It’s sound quality plus the fact I started buying albums in 1973, and I’m still adding to my collection. Love all the faffing around.

Peter

Nice tread.

When I listen serious its 90% lp12- Armageddon, Aro (new and really, really great), Kore, adikt, Lejonklou Gaio and 10% Ndac fead from- sms200 with a new teddypsu (very good upgrade).

Background listening, which of course is often is 30% vinyl and 70% digital. 

Good luck and cheers to every Liverpool supporters on this forum!

Fred

Any digital source so far has not been a real contest to an up to specs  spinner .. and I don’t think this is gonna change ..;-)

glevethan posted:

A brief look leads me to come to the conclusion that many of us have invested in extremely expensive playback systems yet there seems to be a large amount of time spent using these expensive systems to listen to low resolution internet radio.  I see many say that a large number of their daytime listening hours are spent this way

guilty as charged!

though for quality over quantity, it's the LP12 every time.

Innocentbystander, can you update the stats?   turntable first source seems to have more points now.

for ultimate pleasure in listening, vinyl is the winner in this thread!   If all new albums were recorded on vinyl today, with true analog quality, i would listen 100% to music with my turntable and would sell my nds/555dr to get something like vertere or spiral groove with lyra atlas or top air tight cart.

Alba1320 posted:

Not entirely happy with my digital or analogue front ends (though for different reasons), but circa:

CD - 90%

Vinyl - 8%

FM - 2 %

Purely a reflection of having MANY more CDs than records - if it was based upon (ultimate) listening pleasure, vinyl would 'win' hands down.

However, for various reasons, I've no interest in modern vinyl (and even less in computer audio).

Out of interest, why no interest in streaming (=“computer audio”), which can sound better than CD, your front end of which you say you’re not entirely happy with?

Yes.. I couldn’t quite understand that... and further what on earth is ‘computer audio’? It’s sounds like beepy donkey kong computer game sound tracks from the 1980s. If it simply means using a ‘computer’, well even my 552 has a little one of those in it.

I think most of like analogue presentations without or minimum unnatural or grating artefacts... I really invite those who are struggling here to listen to the new generation of electronic DACs which do entirely this. I did and I enjoy my music replay hugely more.. and now sold my TT as it was just not being used..

Now Naim use, on many of their devices,  traditional ladder DACs with relatively modest filter kernel sizes, and they do it to great effect focussing around digital noise mitigation, and analogue filtering and current to voltage creation... and on their latest devices they do fantastically well, however in the limit the reconstruction will be limited by the relatively old technology... so if you find the Naim digital sound fun, but ultimately not quite ‘analogue’ enough for your tastes try listening to sources from elsewhere. I can certainly say Naim NACs and NAPs really enjoy being fed by non Naim analogue digital sources.

You might just find your listening ratio of sources changes somewhat... or not of course....

French Rooster posted:

for ultimate pleasure in listening, vinyl is the winner in this thread!   If all new albums were recorded on vinyl today, with true analog quality, i would listen 100% to music with my turntable and would sell my nds/555dr to get something like vertere or spiral groove with lyra atlas or top air tight cart.

That’s just statistics and inaccurate ones

listen to a chord Hugo and maybe you will have slightly different bias

in my view vinyl is the guest who overstayed their welcome

A good album recorded and mastered in digital on a good dac like chord mojo gives immense musical listening enjoyment 

analogmusic posted:

French Rooster posted:

for ultimate pleasure in listening, vinyl is the winner in this thread!   If all new albums were recorded on vinyl today, with true analog quality, i would listen 100% to music with my turntable and would sell my nds/555dr to get something like vertere or spiral groove with lyra atlas or top air tight cart.

That’s just statistics and inaccurate ones

listen to a chord Hugo and maybe you will have slightly different bias

No statistics mentioned. Simply a person expressing their opinion, so how can you claim it's inaccurate?

And you go on to mention bias ????

JoeRand,

analogmusic posted:

JoeRand,

antony d posted:

Morning Kevin

have 2 sources NDX & LP12,  love both - before the updgrades on my deck in April used NDX 80% and LP12 20%

since the upgrades on LP12 it's fliped around now vinyl around 80% - dont get me wrong love the NDX as a source esp High res or DSD

but I have to say since the upgrades to LP12 (by Peter [@mention:1566878603906177]) the quality of the music the LP12 can deliver has gone beyond NDX

I thought the best upgrade on my system was 300 non DR to DR - but the recent upgrades on LP12 are nothing short of spectaclar

I would find an LP12 specialist and listen and then decide - have a budget in mind

 

Please do not forget to consider two 'orienting' factors, expectations and expense.

It's difficult to imagine that there were many chances that you'd hear worse sound after the Cymbiosis treatment, although I believe that some 'objective' improvements (not knowing what 'upgrades' you're referring to) did take place.

What if similar upgrades were done to your NDX? Just a question. Sorry for the many 's.

M.

LP12/ARO/Keel/Kandid/Radikal/Urika probably 5%. DAVE/Melco maybe 70%. Macbook Pro/DAC/non-Naim 2nd system in holiday home, 25%. Is vinyl better than digital in my system? No, just different and enjoyable in an alternative way. If I was able to get up & down a bit easier I'd be happy with the sole use of either source. I still buy the occasional bit of vinyl, but only something special. I've a good collection of original vinyl, that still sounds great.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

... I think most of like analogue presentations without or minimum unnatural or grating artefacts... I really invite those who are struggling here to listen to the new generation of electronic DACs which do entirely this....

... I can certainly say Naim NACs and NAPs really enjoy being fed by non Naim analogue digital sources.

You might just find your listening ratio of sources changes somewhat... or not of course....

Hi Simon, would you include a Melco N1ZH/2 server + Chord DAVE within your category of analogue digital sources?

This is the combination that I was listening to yesterday.

Best regards, FT

analogmusic posted:

JoeRand,

The pot calling the kettle black?

Sorry - i didn't mean it to be patronising... just vaguely humorous .. as computer music to me is just such a vague term that conjures images of a bygone era. If you were offended i do apologise, perhaps you can kindly explain what you are referring to as computer audio?

Thanks

Foot tapper posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

... I think most of like analogue presentations without or minimum unnatural or grating artefacts... I really invite those who are struggling here to listen to the new generation of electronic DACs which do entirely this....

... I can certainly say Naim NACs and NAPs really enjoy being fed by non Naim analogue digital sources.

You might just find your listening ratio of sources changes somewhat... or not of course....

Hi Simon, would you include a Melco N1ZH/2 server + Chord DAVE within your category of analogue digital sources?

This is the combination that I was listening to yesterday.

Best regards, FT

Hi FT, it certainly could be, DAVE is, in my opinion, an example of a new generation DAC using recent  technology advancements  to mitigate earlier generation reconstruction limitations, though I haven't heard your specific combination.

S

Ok I think I understand, you are referring to 'computer audio' as audio created from multiple electronic devices needed to inter work together - perhaps via some sort of digital interface - as opposed to a self contained device.. though I guess an exception would need to be made for off board power-supplies? .  I think it was the 'computer' bit that threw me. I guess in modern audio with varying degrees of analogness there are computers everywhere such as remote control, input selection, safety control, power saving and automation.. but yes I can understand the appeal of a bottom up audio system with only finely tuned simple analogue electronics. Denis Morecroft I believe subscribes to those views with his products.

Foot tapper posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

... I think most of like analogue presentations without or minimum unnatural or grating artefacts... I really invite those who are struggling here to listen to the new generation of electronic DACs which do entirely this....

... I can certainly say Naim NACs and NAPs really enjoy being fed by non Naim analogue digital sources.

You might just find your listening ratio of sources changes somewhat... or not of course....

Hi Simon, would you include a Melco N1ZH/2 server + Chord DAVE within your category of analogue digital sources?

This is the combination that I was listening to yesterday.

Best regards, FT

and how you found this combo ?