This is how NOT to speak to a prospective customer over the phone

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

French Rooster posted:

nigelb posted:

Someone, please explain to FR, I'm off to bed.

i understood, when the cat is away, the mousses are dancing......    i just commented the photo, it was funny to imagine Richard as a cat in the armchair.....

FR, indeed, there is an English saying, ‘When the cat’s away, the mice will play’

https://idioms.thefreedictiona...C+the+mice+will+play

 

strictly the same in french language «  quand le chat n’est pas là, les souris dansent « .

Hungryhalibut posted:

Kiwi cat posted:

Perol posted:

analogmusic posted:

What on earth are you talking about?

Hey ho, stop right there.

All the dealers that I know are very informed and committed to delivering a system in their customer homes that will delight for years and years.

Massive margins? what on earth are you thinking? in Hi-fi? Ever taken a look at Naim's financial statements?

Please take a Look at Louis Vuitton  financial statement and margins, and how they sell that particular Birkin bag to customers.

 

Ordinary margin in audio is roughly between 40-75% typically on the better side of 50-60%

I know for certain a well known turntable manufacturer operated with 65% dealer margin

Margins in clothes & shoe branches are massive, not unusual 70-80% just to put a bit perspective in it

The old general thumb rule, items selling 10 times more than they cost is not allways far off

My understanding is that luxury products such as Prada handbags have an average markup of 1400% of the cost of production. So 50% Hifi does not seem so bad.

That 50% is the supposed dealer margin, not the difference between the cost of production and the selling price, which will be far, far greater. 

Neodio, a well known hifi french brand,  decided to sell directly his components.  His flagship cd player, neodio origin, went from 20k to 8k:  no importer and shops margin, just direct price.

French Rooster posted:

Quads posted:

French Rooster posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Perol posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Whoever said the forum was boring?!

We would be poorer without AM and his views

Lets honour him

Yes, and I miss allante93!

yes, where is alliante93?    he was funny too....

Are you saying we Italians are funny...

I mean, do we make you laugh????  

 

of course, funny and lively....but i wonder where is our member alliante93....

Yes, I wonder if he finally made it to 'active' with his Isobariks...

The Why

i wish he is alright....or perhaps he found the nirvana with the active isobariks 

French Rooster posted:

i wish he is alright....or perhaps he found the nirvana with the active isobariks 

Yep. I miss readinf Alliante 93's posts. 

“... amateurs and people who know their Hi-Fi”. Doubt many dealers would be in business if they only sold to the latter.  Clothes comment is beyond parody. Judge me on my attire and you’d sell me nothing. As it stands that would be £25,000 you’d done yourself out of.

FWIW I do think the issue here is both dealers and the OP. I welcome the bluntness and honesty of dealer A but such comments on a first contact will likely be misinterpreted so they need to explain and, if they don’t, then the onus is on a punter to ask for clarity. Dealer B is also halfway there. Basic courtesies make a difference. 

My first contact with a long term dealer was closer to B. Whilst not perfect it enabled me to go to the shop; do a dem. and meet the dealer. Far from discourteous he was droll; knowledgeable and relaxed. You do the dem with your music and make up your own mind. Walked from that long term relationship when effectively forced to deal with the other half of a partnership where every casual conversation was an opportunity to try and sell something and the solution to every problem was to try and sell something. The dealer literally became the problem.

My new dealer pitched himself right; was honest from the off about issues with the distance he’d need to travel; involved Naim in solving my issues when they exceeded his knowledge and better than that wants to talk music more than boxes, which is a new experience. Was delighted when the partner of my ex dealer rolled up working for my new dealer. Actually feel guilty I’ve not bought more from them. Indeed next week I’m taking my teenager to dem a Sonos v a Q B and I’m happy to travel 50 miles and give my dealer the money than purchase from Amazon or John Lewis. 

customer A - asks a very specific question and believes he is entitled to the answer that he wants and none other.
                        he has money to buy something expensive and believes that gives him the right to shame a person
                        online who can't explain himself even if that person tried to do the best he could because he didn't
                        have the stupid exact speakers our precious and delicate hero so desires.
                        he also goes out of his way (the hero) to describe this person he's never met with relatively derogatory
                        terms like "middle-aged" (like that means something) and "middle-class" (like he knows his income from a phone call).

customer B - asks questions and if he  doesn't receive a satisfactory answer says "thanks but i'm looking for this thing that i want"
                        and doesn't proceed to harass the poor guy online and continues to another purveyor of the item he is seeking
                        that can accommodate his precise query and is thankful that in a free and fair society someone can get
                        just the speakers that they want because isn't that what life is all about.
        

Those of you in the UK do seem to lead a charmed life, with great dealers and the ability to get proper demonstrations and reasonable trade-in values.

I am not rich but can afford whatever I really want. I went to a demonstration of the Statement. I rather liked it, as did my son who was with me. 

My son dresses rather fashionably, I was tidy casual, "old fashioned" as my son says.

The "dealer" was very courteous, particularly to my son, but suggested I should buy a streamer, and not an NDS mind you!

The best sales/ownership experience I have had was with my BMW, always a good experience, never was anything too hard to do, even to fix the car on a public holiday!!

listener72 posted:

Those of you in the UK do seem to lead a charmed life, with great dealers and the ability to get proper demonstrations and reasonable trade-in values.

 

That's an understatement. After emigrating away from the UK I gave up hifi for 13 years. Various reasons but the utter meaningless quality of dealers elsewhere was a factor.

When I came back, I found it was better to get on a 12 hour flight to the UK and demo stuff than buy locally.

The demo facilities in many countries and the distance to travel to a dealer mean a lot of us just have to forgo common sense like try before you buy at times. 

For most people, regardless of how deep your pockets are, we have 2 options: make the occasional risky blind purchase; or don't buy hifi.

I suspect it isn't the quality of dealers, but the unruly behaviour and expectations of customers when out of UK (not talking about you Feeling-Zen)

People do not want to understand why Naim costs so much money compared to an amplifier from say marantz when the watts are lower on a Naim.

I would say the dealers adjust their behaviour accordingly.

What seems to be universal is the sense of entitlement.

Overseas dealers tend to be wealthy business owners with multiple businesses (in most cases) and leave the shop to their managers. 

In my view hi-fi is a personal journey/quest, whatever it takes to buy the highest level of Naim one can afford (in my case) and then, when there, just get on with life and enjoying music.

analogmusic posted:

SongStream posted:

If I was a hifi dealer, I think [@mention:69004037368204356] would be my dream customer.  He's going to be nice and polite, well dressed, prepared to spend loads of money, and work hard at developing a relationship.  In a sense a little scary, but on the other hand it's all about the money.  

A dealers dream customer one is one who loves hi-fi and has deep pockets , one who can afford a PS555DR, a 552DR, 500DR and such things.... 

I worry that indeed we are the last generation that will buy Naim....?

 

I do agree expensive hifi is dying a slow but sure death, and yes and we are probably the last half generation to buy Naim. Better quality sound can be bought with less money compared to the 2 to 3 decades ago. DSPs with room corrections in amplifier helps getting good music in common rooms easier than ever and likely to continue to be better. Traditional hifi if continues to stick with the old rules of the game, they have no one but themselves to blame. For instance, Apple watch is a good example that high end watches is only great for the ego and presentation but lesser in functions, form and performance.

Is true Hi-Fi dying a death? I suspect not.. I would hazard a guess there is far more true high end Hi-Fi with eye watering price tags around now than say there was in the 1980s... I think it’s the lower end part of the market that has got squeezed and has been replaced by mass cheaply produced commodity consumer electronics... and I guess that was the volume space of many high street ‘hifi’ retailers.. and as such they are no more.. but then that is the same in many areas, not just audio...

I haven't read the whole of this post, but enough to want to tell about my experience of working in Italy many years ago... so, an Englishman (me) arrives at the Italian office of a company he's just started working for. The Englishman has no previous experience of work outside of the UK.

I may have mentioned before that I was involved in IT, so it won't be a surprise that I wanted to find out what my Italian 'friend' thought of the IT systems in use.

I think I'm a fairly typical Englishman, so I'm expecting a few minutes of "How are you?",  "What's it like working here?", and then into the serious stuff about any shortcomings of the IT system.

(As I'm typing this, I'm seeing parallels with my Naim dealer)

Well... the pleasantaries with my Italian friend lasted for a good two hours.  I was later assured that, were I Italian, three to four hours would have been the norm... followed by, maybe, 30 minutes of actual business.

My point was simply that in other countries (not your country of birth) the expectation for doing business may be light years away from what you are expecting.  In Italy, I discovered, inquiries about the health of your extended  family are mandatory before any discussion of business.  You should, however, not really venture beyond the second cousin unless the value of potential business was quite significant  (I think we're talking NAC552  or  ATC SCM100 / 150 sort of level).

I didn't see where Alonso (OP) is from... if you are Italian, Alonso, no offence intended, simply relating my own experience in Northern Italy some time ago - Roger

analogmusic posted:

I suspect it isn't the quality of dealers, but the unruly behaviour and expectations of customers when out of UK (not talking about you Feeling-Zen)

People do not want to understand why Naim costs so much money compared to an amplifier from say marantz when the watts are lower on a Naim.

I would say the dealers adjust their behaviour accordingly.

What seems to be universal is the sense of entitlement.

Overseas dealers tend to be wealthy business owners with multiple businesses (in most cases) and leave the shop to their managers. 

In my view hi-fi is a personal journey/quest, whatever it takes to buy the highest level of Naim one can afford (in my case) and then, when there, just get on with life and enjoying music.

 

 

The truth of the matter is that fewer and fewer people are really interested in high-end hifi outside the UK. The younger generation don't really see the need for an expensive system when they can use their computers, and speakers which they plug directly  into the computer.

SamClaus posted:

analogmusic posted:

I suspect it isn't the quality of dealers, but the unruly behaviour and expectations of customers when out of UK (not talking about you Feeling-Zen)

People do not want to understand why Naim costs so much money compared to an amplifier from say marantz when the watts are lower on a Naim.

I would say the dealers adjust their behaviour accordingly.

What seems to be universal is the sense of entitlement.

Overseas dealers tend to be wealthy business owners with multiple businesses (in most cases) and leave the shop to their managers. 

In my view hi-fi is a personal journey/quest, whatever it takes to buy the highest level of Naim one can afford (in my case) and then, when there, just get on with life and enjoying music.

 

 

The truth of the matter is that fewer and fewer people are really interested in high-end hifi outside the UK. The younger generation don't really see the need for an expensive system when they can use their computers, and speakers which they plug directly  into the computer.

Although I habe no statisteics to back it up, I think it applies equally within the UK.

and of course it depends what you mean by the younger generation....

However I think  expensive systems have always been a minority item - when I set off down this path getting on for 50 years ago, my friends were content with much cheaper stuff, the bristling chrome knobs and sliders of cheap japanese stuff then starting to flood the popular shops attracting them more, then the ‘music systems’ made to look like a mini a stack of mini-separates, then the walkman and ipod generations with earphones glued to their heads... Persuit of sound quality has always taken a back seat to price, fashion and style.

well there's just a lot more claims on the attention of young people

tinder, snapchat, facebook, and apple music.

It is still a case of not knowing what they are missing out with real hi-fi like Naim, Chord, and... Dynaudio 

and vertere....

analogmusic posted:

well there's just a lot more claims on the attention of young people

tinder, snapchat, facebook, and apple music.

It is still a case of not knowing what they are missing out with real hi-fi like Naim, Chord, and... Dynaudio 

Hence the new lure of MuSo and the revamped Uniti range. Gotta suck the newbies in!

And that is what brought me back after many years in the wilderness after the corporate treadmill, and retiring, just got a Muso, then Core, Nova, Nap 300..........new streamers next.

You don’t look old enough to be retired. 

Thankyou Nigel, I got out at 56 from Ford motor company with a final salary scheme and voluntary redundancy. I will be 59 this year, enjoying every day. So I thank you for a special day you organised a month or so ago, a special day to remember.

last year, I had a wake up call with a Type2 diabetes diagnosis, so when we met I had lost 25 Kgs since last summer, and feel so much better. And you look great, keep well Nigel and forumites, off for a few days in Norfolk next week, take care.

gazza

25kgs, wow, I can imagine why you feel so much better. A brush with illness or death is certainly a wake up call. We are in Montmartre on a lovely warm evening, sitting on the balcony and watching the world go by. It could be worse. 

analogmusic posted:

 

It is still a case of not knowing what they are missing out with real hi-fi like Naim, Chord, and... Dynaudio 

Which is particularly strange given the opportunity to visit all those welcoming and unassuming dealers. 

Customer A:  "Awight, Mr Dealer.  I'd like to buy a streamer and some wireless speakers, with blue teeth, spo'ify connect and USB innit"

Dealer A "In this establishment, young man, you can buy a Linn turntable....or leave."

Nigel, enjoy.....your break