Naim SL2 vs Ovator S400?

Richard Dane posted:

Roberto, early cherry had a tinted varnish which made them slightly red.  Later ones were clear so lost the red tint.  My own pair are later ones but have early cabinets which look similar to yours but with slightly more obvious figuring to the veneer.

p.s. I like the shade of green on the wall in your picture.

Very well, If it's like my own Sats are  more similar to walnut than cherry.

The green shade is Farrow & Ball Calke Green colour with little mod to the formula.

Regards

Roberto

analogmusic posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Joe,

another very unique trait of the S-400s, that not many consider enough because they haven't seen it at home, is how they seem to fit every room and mingle with any type of furniture. in other words, they are beautiful everywhere.

(BTW, I have written many times that I do not care for velvety midrange and super smooth treble, because it is not how real music sounds).

M.

Max

you are not listening to the direct instruments but a recording of those instruments therefore an interpretation of how the music sounded by both the recording engineer and the mixing engineer

after attending a live concert recently of one of my favorite singers I was not impressed and much preferred the recordings. In fact I wish I hadn’t bothered attending the concert 

i don’t know why artists think that live music at ear blasting levels is fun because it wasn’t for me. 

Theres a lot of distortion that comes out of driving PA Rigs are very high SPL and I may well really reduce my concert attendance to protect my ears !

 

 

I think Max is referring to live unamplified instruments. If you hear a real trumpet, or a real violin, for example, it most certainly isn’t smooth or velvety. A good speaker needs to reveal that rasp and edginess and not make it all smooth and silky. It’s something the SL2s do well, just as the S400s do, which is one of the reasons they make music sound real. 

analogmusic posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Joe,

another very unique trait of the S-400s, that not many consider enough because they haven't seen it at home, is how they seem to fit every room and mingle with any type of furniture. in other words, they are beautiful everywhere.

(BTW, I have written many times that I do not care for velvety midrange and super smooth treble, because it is not how real music sounds).

M.

Max

you are not listening to the direct instruments but a recording of those instruments therefore an interpretation of how the music sounded by both the recording engineer and the mixing engineer

after attending a live concert recently of one of my favorite singers I was not impressed and much preferred the recordings. In fact I wish I hadn’t bothered attending the concert 

i don’t know why artists think that live music at ear blasting levels is fun because it wasn’t for me. 

Theres a lot of distortion that comes out of driving PA Rigs are very high SPL and I may well really reduce my concert attendance to protect my ears !

 

 

With recorded music, the recording is a culmination of different people’s inputs, hopefully to the satisfaction of the artist, though apparently not always so, record companies in particular sometimes over-riding, maybe that being responsible for bad recordings (including compressed CDs). But with recorded music, by our choice of system components and room layouts etc we can get it to sound how we like it, or rather we get the system to make the music we normally play sound good to us - and if we have no reference to how a good live performance of the music or artist sounds then it is possible that we could adopt systems that substantially change the music’s qualities because that is what sound good to us. Although that might be a distortion of the accuracy of the music being reproduced, that is not a bad thing in itself as the whole purpose is enjoyment of the music, however we need to be careful in assuming that others would enjoy it the way we do. And here lies the challenge in advising others on speakers, or interpreting what others say about in terms of their preferences, whether SL2 or S400 (or anything else), though it can help to have an understanding of the commenting person’s general preferences in terms of the sound they like, e.g. by noting any commonality or otherwise with one’s own views on any common points of reference.

In some cases it may be that someone can become so become accustomed to their system’s presentation that they dislike the live sound even when it may be exactly what the artist intends, which is rather sad in a way - but not in another way because the said individual still enjoys their version of the artist’s music. Artists themselves of course can be ‘guilty’, where a studio album creates music that just can’t be reproduced on stage - and in that event it is enjoyment of the recording that arguably is indeed the most important.

But of course, live performances can be good or bad. Amplified ones are particularly susceptible to the quality of PA - some PA suppliers and/or gig mixing engineers should simply be banned. They are also of course dependent on the artists’ performance on the day, and that can be significant, from illness to disinterest (as can happen especially on long major tours), to drunkenness etc, or just an ‘off’ day. Also very significant can be the acoustics of the venue, where sometimes some parts of the auditorium can sound great and others abysmal. With regard to sound level, it needs to suit the music - rock never sounds right quiet (that includes at home), while a solo folk singer is likely to sound wrong played at the same sound level as a heavy metal band (similar differences with classical).

Roberto, yes, the n-Sats had no tint to the varnish so the cherry looks relatively pale compared to the cherry found on the early Sl2s - very close to the colour of the french walnut on the Loricraft plinth I use for the Garrard 401. The n-Sat cherry veneer was also very slightly different to that on the later SL2s - I guess because the cabinets were from different makers.

Well put innocentbystander.

What’s the verdict Kahn? Are you going for the SL2s or the 400s?

Verdict is SL2. And to re arrange the room furniture to accommodate. It will mean one speaker will be tucked behind a door opening. I will have to figure out how to manage that. 

I will report once I receive delivery and setup. Which can take some time. 

best of luck. Clearly dedicated to the cause.

Khan,

Keep us posted once you get the speakers set up and have spent some hours in front of them.

Ed

Will do. I should take delivery in a few weeks. The speakers will be without grills so I will source grills at a later date. I’m just shocked at the asking price. I understand the grilled are out of production, but the price being asked strikes me as outrageous for essentially two pieces of acoustic foam. 

Kahn,

Tom Tom agreed to manufacture a run of these SL2s replica grills after the original stock of Naim grills ran out.

Yes they are expensive but when you consider (i) their quality (as others here have confirmed they are virtually indistinguishable from the originals); and (ii) the fact that had Tom Tom not made this effort you would not be able to source any - it is, IMHO, actually perfectly reasonable.

Regards

David

The grilles are made in small numbers and have lots of complex shapes, so production is going to be expensive. They are, as said above, very high quality and make your speakers look good as new. Spending £220 to finish off a pair of speakers that would cost over £8,000 if still made today doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. I think it’s brilliant that James at Tom Tom took the commercial risk on this - Naim themselves didn’t do it - and it’s good to support him.  

I have been following this thread with great interest as I am trying some SL2s out this Saturday (the SBLs won’t be disappearing any time soon though even if I decide to have the SL2s). Will be interesting to hear them in my own home

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

I have been following this thread with great interest as I am trying some SL2s out this Saturday (the SBLs won’t be disappearing any time soon though even if I decide to have the SL2s). Will be interesting to hear them in my own home

Are those the pair that Rob (Mort2k) is selling?

look forward to hearing how you get on

S3 posted:

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

I have been following this thread with great interest as I am trying some SL2s out this Saturday (the SBLs won’t be disappearing any time soon though even if I decide to have the SL2s). Will be interesting to hear them in my own home

Are those the pair that Rob (Mort2k) is selling?

look forward to hearing how you get on

Might be

Will report back

Hi guys,

so long story short I have one of the speakers. The other will be in transit. I thought this is ideal as I have time to learn how to set it up.  Now I can more or less understand the entire setup except the leaf spring movement. My SL2 does not sway or rock. It’s perfectly stiff. Am I missing something? I was under the impression that cabinet will rock and sway ever so slightly. Am I mistaken? I read in the manual that the bar across the rear on the base ( underneath the speaker) is slightly loose. But mine is rock solid with 2 Allen screws and 3 wood screws in the middle. Help

Hi Khan,

Search SL2 set up guide for lots of info on this including this one from our esteemed mod.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/t...uide-to-sl2-set-up-1

Stu

Kahn,

Where are you getting these SL2s from - a dealer or a private individual? Taking delivery of one speaker but not the other at the same time sounds very odd.

The leaf spring is set at the factory and should not be tampered with other than but Naim or a dealer who knows exactly what he’s doing. It should be slightly loose.

Ideally you should have the SL2s checked over by Naim or by a dealer. If you are in London then you should be able to arrange for one to come to you for a small fee or if you have an existing relationship then maybe for free.

Once the speakers are perfectly level on their spikes, you will find that if you rap the top of the bottom box with your knuckles the speaker will oscillate gently, while the tweeter remains perfectly still. They don’t ‘sway’ as such. 

Khan,  If it helps, heres a (bad) pic of the underside of mine for you to compare.  Mine rock (jiggle might be a better description) ever so slightly.

I think the cleaning lady has some work to do!

Thanks EKFC63. Yes I managed to understand what was meant by the setup. As I knock on the base of the speaker with my knuckle it oscilates back and forth while the tweeter remains perfectly still. Setup was not difficult and I think I even enjoyed it. 

Strange case that the 2 rear floor spikes were bent back at the tip. I have the wardrobe being fitted next week so it gives me the opportunity to take the speaker apart and do it again. This time I’ll remove the spikes. Heat the tips and straighten them out with a hammer. ???? 

Having got my SL2s in place at the weekend I now understand the comments regarding the oscillation if you tap them. Makes perfect sense where you see it

Is there a difference in sound quality between a slightly worn out pair of grilles compared to a new set? Also what the sound difference with and without the grilles?

The problem with the grilles is that the foam starts to get brittle and bits begin to flake off.  It's started to happen to mine although they still look good.  You just notice some fine black dust on the top front edge of the bottom box. They were designed to be used with the grilles in place, and that is how I prefer them.  I think they look a bit odd without the grilles in place as they continue the line of the bottom box.

Kahn, I’d strongly recommend getting a new set. They were designed to be played with the grills on, they sound better with them on and they look better with them on.