Fancy Ethernet Cable-Experiment with the last 1 metre

i use vodka from router to cisco switch and audioquest diamonds from cisco to nds and unitserve.  i find the diamond more refined and analog like vs the vodka on the last segment. before i had standard cat 7 cables then forrest from audioquest.  The audioquest diamond gave me a near box upgrade.

Mike-B posted:

Peder,  you need to explain a bit more what you mean by eht-cables,  its not something I am familiar with wrt ethernet.    I did a a period of student level study of EHT in electrical applications,  but I'm pretty sure its not that as our ethernet based system might object to >132k volts.    

Hi Mike-B,..... excuse me, different countries, different languages.....additionally,I shortened the error.... wrote a little too quickly.
◾ Eht-cables should be Eth-cables = Ethernet cables.

Now I can not correct this in my post, you have only 15 minutes to do that,.....why is it so short time to change a post?

/Peder ???? 

French Rooster posted:

i use vodka from router to cisco switch and audioquest diamonds from cisco to nds and unitserve.  i find the diamond more refined and analog like vs the vodka on the last segment. before i had standard cat 7 cables then forrest from audioquest.  The audioquest diamond gave me a near box upgrade.

I agree that Audioquest Diamond Ethernet cable is a better cable than AQ Vodka..... of course.
But as I wrote earlier, it comes to finding the synergy in the system as well.
Better ehternet cable is not always best in your own system, it's all about system customization....where even the room is recording.

A friend had AQ Diamond eth-cable, he switched to the Vertere DF-I Ethernet-cable instead.
He thought AQ Diamond became too bright,... almost a bit sharp in he's system.
But he has Martin Logan speakers, so it may be due to it.... they have a fairly bright character.

But I agree with you, in my case it was also almost like a box-upgrade.

/Peder ????

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

DaveBk posted:

Yup. SFP in the ND555 would have removed a media converter, switch and power supply from the bottom of my racks. Shame...

Yup, which all add noise and detract from the overall  signal.... I really wouldn’t bother with a ‘media converter’ on the new streamers......

I found the Cisco 2960 to be quite an effective medis converter????

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Blackmorec posted:

Hey KC, 

In you place I may be tempted to try something with the router and some wi-fi, rather than just plugging an expensive internet cable into the end of a long run of cable from the modem. 

I would look at a wireless router with high quality clock and power supply then go wireless to my hi-fi room where I would have a device to receive the wi-fi signal and drop it onto a short cable.  

My logic is that you’ve got fibre incoming, so I would avoid any sources or potential ingress of RMI and EMI. Its this HF noise that ruines digital hi-fi’s presentation. 

Yes, but the OP is talking about attached Ethernet cables which effectively act  RF stubs... nothing about noise sources of EMI (SMPS etc) ..... Naim only support twisted pair connections, so connected fibre is not an option... if there was an onboard SFP then things would be different..

Hi Simon....I’m fairly new to this and sometimes find my limits, especially when it comes to all the different brands and what they do. 

I recently decided to implement a digital hi-fi based on streaming ripped CDs and Qobuz Hi-Res. Before that I was an all tubes and Sonus Faber guy. 

Anyway, as part of the installation and set up of my system I needed to find the best strategy for getting the ‘stream’ from the corner of the lounge, to an upstairs room across a staircase.  I started with the obvious, a simple 15m cable of reasonable quality (nothing special or remotely audiophile) bungee style over the stairs and into the back of my Virgin SuperHub3 the other her end directly into the Innuos Zenith SE.  Sounded pretty nice.....very, very nice in fact. I then added an AQVox Switch SE and it sounded even better, using a AQVox Edge cable for the last meter into the Innuos. 

I have a 10M Synergistic Research Active Ethernet cable which I wanted to try but it was too short to reach the modem, so I bit the bullet and bought a Powerline adapter. I hate the idea of these things but hey ho. Anyway in went the PL adapter, the SR was connected and the sound took another step forward. 

Good as that PL Adapter was, it bugged me to put a lot of HF SI-Iit onto my house mains, and the idea of passing a hi-fi signal around a household mains ring was just too much. So I decided to try Wi-Fi Extenders. One downstairs serving all household devices on a 2.5MHz connection and one upstairs in my hi-fi room, connected to the source modem via 5MHz band, wi-fi transmission switched off and a short SR Active Cable connecting the Extender to the AQVox switch, where the signal is reclocked and sanitised before entering the Innuos.  This was by far the best connection and the strategy I’ve stuck with. 

Just FYI, my next moves are adding a CHC DC2 LPS to the AQVox and maybe getting a new router and LPS to replace the SuperHub3. I’ve no idea how these ‘improvements’ will affect the SQ. Positively I hope.

Hi, thanks for your update... removing the Powerline adapters absolutely was the sensible thing to do so as to remove all that unwanted widenand  RF energy/noise from your house environment and connected mains powersupply.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi Mike, longer is better, unless your source network adapter can detect length of cable with the initial synchronisation observed voltages  and drop the voltages as appropriate ... 

My switch adjusts voltage dependent on length   ...........   I question how effective/accurate that might be with my 0.5m cable vs the voltage required for a more typical domestic audio installed length,  I suspect their might be little or no difference at the lower voltage end.     

Peder posted: 

Hi Mike-B,..... excuse me, different countries, different languages.....additionally,I shortened the error.... wrote a little too quickly.      ◾ Eht-cables should be Eth-cables = Ethernet cables.

I have never seen the use of 'eth-cable' on this forum,  maybe better use the full 'ethernet' word

Japtimscarlet posted:

I'm having to use Wi-fi for my 272 as the sheer Hassel of routing cable from my dining room..where the router is ..to the living room ..where the hifi gear is..makes me take the easy path and go wifi

My core is connected on internet over mains..as all it is doing is looking up album art ( it's connected to the 272 by chord coaxial) 

I would love to go totally wired .. should I just get a network engineer in and make it his problem?? Or is there an easy way someone has found.

Japtimscarlet, Iver van De Zane and Blackmorec , my house seems to have truely dreadful wireless capacity. It was designed by a structural engineer in the 1980s and seem overbuilt. It is wood and brick in construction but braced by huge barn shaped steel girders internally. Perhaps it is a Faraday cafe effect (he said like he sounded what he was talking about) but my Linksys EA9500 designed for apartment buildings has difficult broadcasting wi fi access from the front to the back of the house.

So Japtimscarlet I paid for an electrician to put 20-30 m of Cat5 from the back of the house where data enters, to the front of the house where the 272 is situated and I consider it money well spent, about £2500 including a dedicated spur.

Mike-B posted:

Peder posted: 

Hi Mike-B,..... excuse me, different countries, different languages.....additionally,I shortened the error.... wrote a little too quickly.      ◾ Eht-cables should be Eth-cables = Ethernet cables.

I have never seen the use of 'eth-cable' on this forum,  maybe better use the full 'ethernet' word

Mike-B,...... sometime should be the first ????????. In Sweden, we often use such abbreviations on forums,...as I wrote, different cultures, different languages.

But you may be right, to avoid misunderstandings as this is an international forum.
We also belong to a different generation than for example my son, where it is only abbreviations when he writes on forums,.... also in English ????.

/Peder ????

Thank you everyone for thoughtful and informative replies.

After I have returned the Chord Signiture Aray back to my dealer I will try some other cables.

What seems to be mentioned the most is AQ Vodka, which is 1/3 the price of the Chord. So I may get this. I would have to buy it outright as there are no local dealers.

Wireworld Cat8 is a similar price to the Vodka , and there is a local dealer, so I may be able to try this.

Eleanor mentioned the Star Tech Cat 6 as being superb. I could not find the exact one she mentions but other Star Tech cables are ludicrously cheap, so I may initially send away for theN6PATC2MER cable at around £6.

Just a question. It has been mentioned on this forum that the cable from the Unitiserve  to the router may be the most bang for the buck place to put a patch cable. Given that if I did this, the data would still go via 2 meters of Chord C-Steam from the router to a wall socket and thence about 25-30m via $2 a meter Cat5 to the socket behind my streamer. So, if there was 30 m of inferior Cat5 after the Server to router posh cable,is there any point in adding the posh cable between the server and router?

I use a Vodka between my nas and the switch, but there is no ‘standard’ Ethernet in the chain. In your case I’d suggest that you get one Vodka and try it between the Serve and the socket to see if it makes a difference. The usual finding is that the wire at the streamer end makes the biggest difference. In my case, they were both significant and I’d be hard pressed to say which made the biggest difference. 

The questionable stuff in Kiwi Cat's set up is the 30m of Cat5 between the wall sockets.   Why would the last metre change its sonic signature?  it brings in Simon-i-S theory about RF stub loading if the last metre does in fact bring sonic changes.    

Alos to add but hopefully not appear a party pooper.  I know of someone who ran a long length of StarTech to his garden room,  it didn't work streaming video,  the shop replaced it & it still didn't work.  The shop then replaced it with another brand & it worked. 

Kiwi cat posted:

 

...

Eleanor mentioned the Star Tech Cat 6 as being superb. I could not find the exact one she mentions but other Star Tech cables are ludicrously cheap, so I may initially send away for theN6PATC2MER cable at around £6.
...

I did qualify that that conclusion applied to my system, in my environment.

As the 'sound' of Ethernet cables is related to RFI & clock modulation, not directly to the music, so even with the same system components the effect of the Ethernet cable can vary dependant on location.  It may even vary depending on the layout within a house (but I haven't tried this particular experiment).  As this and the Meicord Opal  cables have the same basic construction and the Meicord is such a well constructed cable, it did surprise me that for me this cable gave slightly better clarity of instrumental timbre (but the difference really was quite small).

However for £6 it's worth a punt (and even if it doesn't work for you as an audio cable, you still get a reasonably well made patch cord for a reasonable price).

Incidentally the Startech product code is (for the N6PATC5MWH I have)
N6 = Cat 6
PATC = Patch Cord
5M = 5 metre
WH = White
For reference: the cable itself, along it's length, is marked with the code LL84201.

(Mike, I tried it just because it was a cable I happened to have available, previously intended for 1000BaseT operation over a short distance, and it was about the right length.  Also, it you are talking about video senders using Ethernet cable, they have a different RF frequency spectrum to Ethernet networks, so not necessarily comparable).

Kiwi cat posted:

Thank you everyone for thoughtful and informative replies.

After I have returned the Chord Signiture Aray back to my dealer I will try some other cables.

What seems to be mentioned the most is AQ Vodka, which is 1/3 the price of the Chord. So I may get this. I would have to buy it outright as there are no local dealers.

Wireworld Cat8 is a similar price to the Vodka , and there is a local dealer, so I may be able to try this.

Eleanor mentioned the Star Tech Cat 6 as being superb. I could not find the exact one she mentions but other Star Tech cables are ludicrously cheap, so I may initially send away for theN6PATC2MER cable at around £6.

Just a question. It has been mentioned on this forum that the cable from the Unitiserve  to the router may be the most bang for the buck place to put a patch cable. Given that if I did this, the data would still go via 2 meters of Chord C-Steam from the router to a wall socket and thence about 25-30m via $2 a meter Cat5 to the socket behind my streamer. So, if there was 30 m of inferior Cat5 after the Server to router posh cable,is there any point in adding the posh cable between the server and router?

Would be interested to hear your Wireworld Cat8 thoughts, i have not managed to find a dealer to demo.

Huge posted:

(Mike, I tried it just because it was a cable I happened to have available, previously intended for 1000BaseT operation over a short distance, and it was about the right length.  Also, it you are talking about video senders using Ethernet cable, they have a different RF frequency spectrum to Ethernet networks, so not necessarily comparable).

Yes Huge,  all aware of that.   I don't know that much about the whys & wherefores of the guy & his long StarTech run,  it was a pub/club chat along with a group of others,  I just 'tuned in' to the StarTech word as it was only a day or so after you posted on your tests.     He is a hifi nut (Cyrus I believe) as well as A/V & seems to know his way around a toolbox,  but I will, for my own education, ask next time I see him. 

I'm more interested in the RF stub load theory,  & your StarTech sonic change might somehow have a bit of that in it.      I intend to dig a little deeper & see if the RF stud loading is similar to Chord's 'aray' theory.    Problem is so much other stuff to do & I'm off on travels next week. 

Mike-B posted:

...

I'm more interested in the RF stub load theory,  & your StarTech sonic change might somehow have a bit of that in it. 
...

That is my belief, along with specific (but as yet unidentified) antenna and transmission loss properties.

Mike-B posted:

...

I intend to dig a little deeper & see if the RF stud loading is similar to Chord's 'aray' theory.    Problem is so much other stuff to do & I'm off on travels next week. 

That will be interesting.

Enjoy the travels.

Thanks Eleanor for explaining  the Star Tech coding system. It makes complete sense.  I will get a few 2meter lengths and try them at both ends of my system and take it from there.

Kiwi cat posted:

Thanks Eleanor for explaining  the Star Tech coding system. It makes complete sense.  I will get a few 2meter lengths and try them at both ends of my system and take it from there.

Reverse engineering!

The crazy peeps over at CA swear by the Ghent Audio Cat 6a ET02 with JSSG shielding and Metz plugs

I’ll be sad to say goodbye to the Chord Signature ARAY. It remains the benchmark. C-Stream is still very good albeit a bit more “closed in” than the Chord. Will try the ridiculously cheap Star Tech and go from there. Thanks to superb staff at Real Music Wellington for loan of the Chord. Who knows , maybe one day I will eventually get it, and thanks for your patience!

Obsydian posted:

The crazy peeps over at CA swear by the Ghent Audio Cat 6a ET02 with JSSG shielding and Metz plugs

Thanks Obsydian, will look into it.

Kiwi cat posted:

I’ll be sad to say goodbye to the Chord Signature ARAY. It remains the benchmark. C-Stream is still very good albeit a bit more “closed in” than the Chord. Will try the ridiculously cheap Star Tech and go from there. Thanks to superb staff at Real Music Wellington for loan of the Chord. Who knows , maybe one day I will eventually get it, and thanks for your patience!

Chord Shawline seems to be well received KC. I don’t know it myself, but Naim were using it to feed their big system at the Bristol Show. A lot cheaper than Sig SA. Do Real World have one of those they could lend you?

So are we saying...

If I ran a 20m patch cable from a switch to a streamer...direct

It would NOT sound as good as if I cut the end off the patch cable ...put on a internet box ...and plugged a meter of high quality cable into that junction box and into the streamer??

Right?

KC, do try the Vodka as well, before committing to the SSA. It’s much cheaper and you may prefer it. It looks nicer too.