Fancy Ethernet Cable-Experiment with the last 1 metre

That’s what I found to be the case, router to switch is about 15m of outdoor grade cat5 cable to first switch, then Audioquest forest to the second switch, then Melco cat6 to Nova streamer/amp and Uniti Core. Played around with many cables including £400 per metre cable and ended up with a Cisco switch and the Melco cat6 cable for the last metre. Not sure why this should be discernibly better, but in my system it worked.

Japtimscarlet posted:

So are we saying...

If I ran a 20m patch cable from a switch to a streamer...direct

It would NOT sound as good as if I cut the end off the patch cable ...put on a internet box ...and plugged a meter of high quality cable into that junction box and into the streamer??

Right?

Gazza posted:

That’s what I found to be the case, router to switch is about 15m of outdoor grade cat5 cable to first switch, then Audioquest forest to the second switch, then Melco cat6 to Nova streamer/amp and Uniti Core. Played around with many cables including £400 per metre cable and ended up with a Cisco switch and the Melco cat6 cable for the last metre. Not sure why this should be discernibly better, but in my system it worked.

What sounds best to you will depend on your setup (including network components) and on the electrical noise in your house What works for one person won't necessarily be any good for someone else.

Totally agree Huge, I was lucky to have been lent cables by my dealer, and in the end a cheap Cisco 2960 and the relatively cheap Melco Cat6 was better than a couple of £400 cables. I was in pocket by about £650......happy days. So yes, not a one fix solution for everyone, need to experiment.

Obsydian posted:

The crazy peeps over at CA swear by the Ghent Audio Cat 6a ET02 with JSSG shielding and Metz plugs

Works for me! I haven’t tried any crazy price ethernet cables though, but the Ghent is better/more neutral than Meico Opal, AQ Cinnamon, or a number of cheap Amazon patch cables. I do want to try some Supra CAT8 though. 

charlesphoto posted:

Obsydian posted:

The crazy peeps over at CA swear by the Ghent Audio Cat 6a ET02 with JSSG shielding and Metz plugs

Works for me! I haven’t tried any crazy price ethernet cables though, but the Ghent is better/more neutral than Meico Opal, AQ Cinnamon, or a number of cheap Amazon patch cables. I do want to try some Supra CAT8 though. 

Excellent, i ordered a Ghent £60 vs my Chord Indigo Aray £1000, i have tried Amazon, Chord C stream, AQ Vodka and Supra CAT8 was my first >£5 cable. The Supra seemed fine, but later i added a Supra Power Chord and realized it just sucked the life out of the sound, so went Chord C Stream, then Indigo. The AQ just added wolly bass and warmer.

I think like Simon mentioned maybe this is a bit like tone controls, but for me the Indigo was = to a box upgrade. 

Good to keep an open mind and put aside the i spend £1000s so it must be better, will be interesting to hear the Ghent, i must say i have implemented most of the CA suggestion in their mega tweak thread, makes our threads here seem pitful (in terms of tweak mania and obsession) 

Obsydian posted:

charlesphoto posted:

Obsydian posted:

The crazy peeps over at CA swear by the Ghent Audio Cat 6a ET02 with JSSG shielding and Metz plugs

Works for me! I haven’t tried any crazy price ethernet cables though, but the Ghent is better/more neutral than Meico Opal, AQ Cinnamon, or a number of cheap Amazon patch cables. I do want to try some Supra CAT8 though. 

Excellent, i ordered a Ghent £60 vs my Chord Indigo Aray £1000, i have tried Amazon, Chord C stream, AQ Vodka and Supra CAT8 was my first >£5 cable. The Supra seemed fine, but later i added a Supra Power Chord and realized it just sucked the life out of the sound, so went Chord C Stream, then Indigo. The AQ just added wolly bass and warmer.

I think like Simon mentioned maybe this is a bit like tone controls, but for me the Indigo was = to a box upgrade. 

Good to keep an open mind and put aside the i spend £1000s so it must be better, will be interesting to hear the Ghent, i must say i have implemented most of the CA suggestion in their mega tweak thread, makes our threads here seem pitful (in terms of tweak mania and obsession) 

Hey Obsydian, did you try or will you try the 2 cisco 2960 with sfp and optical fibers ?  i would be curious to know how it compares vs tp link converters.

There is also the etalon isolator, a little box ( around 300GBP) that do the same as the optical bridge. Some naim french members prefer it to the tp link.   I had not tested yet.

As you know i removed for now the optical bridge, but things are never definitive....

French Rooster posted:

Obsydian posted:

charlesphoto posted:

Obsydian posted:

The crazy peeps over at CA swear by the Ghent Audio Cat 6a ET02 with JSSG shielding and Metz plugs

Works for me! I haven’t tried any crazy price ethernet cables though, but the Ghent is better/more neutral than Meico Opal, AQ Cinnamon, or a number of cheap Amazon patch cables. I do want to try some Supra CAT8 though. 

Excellent, i ordered a Ghent £60 vs my Chord Indigo Aray £1000, i have tried Amazon, Chord C stream, AQ Vodka and Supra CAT8 was my first >£5 cable. The Supra seemed fine, but later i added a Supra Power Chord and realized it just sucked the life out of the sound, so went Chord C Stream, then Indigo. The AQ just added wolly bass and warmer.

I think like Simon mentioned maybe this is a bit like tone controls, but for me the Indigo was = to a box upgrade. 

Good to keep an open mind and put aside the i spend £1000s so it must be better, will be interesting to hear the Ghent, i must say i have implemented most of the CA suggestion in their mega tweak thread, makes our threads here seem pitful (in terms of tweak mania and obsession) 

Hey Obsydian, did you try or will you try the 2 cisco 2960 with sfp and optical fibers ?  i would be curious to know how it compares vs tp link converters.

There is also the etalon isolator, a little box ( around 300GBP) that do the same as the optical bridge. Some naim french members prefer it to the tp link.   I had not tested yet.

As you know i removed for now the optical bridge, but things are never definitive....

Hi, no I did not try two 2960 mine does not have sfp, but as mentioned i did removed the fibre bridge, only took 2 tracks to decide it was staying.

Will look into the Etalon isolator.

I am looking at replacing my ifi p/s for the fibre bridge, on CA the Uptone is well regarded, but to honest to whole setup would end up looking like a computer lab.

It is interesting how much effect these changes make.

Obsydian posted:

French Rooster posted:

Obsydian posted:

charlesphoto posted:

Obsydian posted:

The crazy peeps over at CA swear by the Ghent Audio Cat 6a ET02 with JSSG shielding and Metz plugs

Works for me! I haven’t tried any crazy price ethernet cables though, but the Ghent is better/more neutral than Meico Opal, AQ Cinnamon, or a number of cheap Amazon patch cables. I do want to try some Supra CAT8 though. 

Excellent, i ordered a Ghent £60 vs my Chord Indigo Aray £1000, i have tried Amazon, Chord C stream, AQ Vodka and Supra CAT8 was my first >£5 cable. The Supra seemed fine, but later i added a Supra Power Chord and realized it just sucked the life out of the sound, so went Chord C Stream, then Indigo. The AQ just added wolly bass and warmer.

I think like Simon mentioned maybe this is a bit like tone controls, but for me the Indigo was = to a box upgrade. 

Good to keep an open mind and put aside the i spend £1000s so it must be better, will be interesting to hear the Ghent, i must say i have implemented most of the CA suggestion in their mega tweak thread, makes our threads here seem pitful (in terms of tweak mania and obsession) 

Hey Obsydian, did you try or will you try the 2 cisco 2960 with sfp and optical fibers ?  i would be curious to know how it compares vs tp link converters.

There is also the etalon isolator, a little box ( around 300GBP) that do the same as the optical bridge. Some naim french members prefer it to the tp link.   I had not tested yet.

As you know i removed for now the optical bridge, but things are never definitive....

Hi, no I did not try two 2960 mine does not have sfp, but as mentioned i did removed the fibre bridge, only took 2 tracks to decide it was staying.

Will look into the Etalon isolator.

I am looking at replacing my ifi p/s for the fibre bridge, on CA the Uptone is well regarded, but to honest to whole setup would end up looking like a computer lab.

It is interesting how much effect these changes make.

i had ifi power then uptone js2 on one tp link , the other was powered by hdplex.  My uptone is now powering only the unitserve.

It was a clear improvement vs the ifi power.    Perhaps you can find cheaper lps than uptone to power the tp link.  The wyred has also 2 outputs and costs less than twice the price.  Perhaps sbooster too.  Hdplex is more complicated to have 2 X 5v outputs.

Perhaps also, if you try another indigo , between your router and cisco, you will find a great improvement as me ( audioquest diamond from router to switch and the same from switch to nds for me).

I have a SFP fibre module in my Cisco SC300-28, dropping single mode fibre to a StarTech converter. From here via 0.75m Audioquest Cinnamon to a Netgear GS105. From here 1.5m of Cinnamon to the NDS. The media converter and little switch are powered from a very simple linear power supply I built, with 12v and 9v outputs off separate secondary windings. I've not done any recent A/B comparisons with more exotic ethernet cables, either the last meter, or the whole drop from the bigger Cisco switch. In my original tests, I much preferred the fibre isolated approach. Still happy.

kevin J Carden posted:

Kiwi cat posted:

I’ll be sad to say goodbye to the Chord Signature ARAY. It remains the benchmark. C-Stream is still very good albeit a bit more “closed in” than the Chord. Will try the ridiculously cheap Star Tech and go from there. Thanks to superb staff at Real Music Wellington for loan of the Chord. Who knows , maybe one day I will eventually get it, and thanks for your patience!

Chord Shawline seems to be well received KC. I don’t know it myself, but Naim were using it to feed their big system at the Bristol Show. A lot cheaper than Sig SA. Do Real World have one of those they could lend you?

Kevin, I may do just that. They probably have it and it should be a similar price to the AQ Vodka. Often these hifi  purchases come down to what we can try in our own homes on trial from a local dealer. I must admit I really hate giving dealers the runaround, but a good rapport and mutual trust and respect does help smooth the process.

DaveBk posted:

I have a SFP fibre module in my Cisco SC300-28, dropping single mode fibre to a StarTech converter. From here via 0.75m Audioquest Cinnamon to a Netgear GS105. From here 1.5m of Cinnamon to the NDS. The media converter and little switch are powered from a very simple linear power supply I built, with 12v and 9v outputs off separate secondary windings. I've not done any recent A/B comparisons with more exotic ethernet cables, either the last meter, or the whole drop from the bigger Cisco switch. In my original tests, I much preferred the fibre isolated approach. Still happy.

Dave, glad you are happy, but in the approach you outline have no fibre isolation, your media converter will be creating PHY clock noise and that is what I believe causes the intermodulation products on BaseTX connections.. because crucially the Naim streamers don’t have SFPs. It is also this PHY clock noise or lack of it which I think you get with the 2960 and similar switches. So you have a setup of differeing physical synch clock noises on your setup, and you have found a noise profile that you like the best. Remember unless there is a fault, single mode noise doesn’t travel along twisted pair connections as they are balanced, and common mode is noise is respect to earth and the nearest electrical  network terminal adapter, but here if prevalent (say thesource  connecting device is on the edge of its EMC compliance)  the usual recommended approachis to use a ferrite clamp around the Ethernet lead to impede the common mode RF current. I find a little coil receiver can detect the presence of common mode RF.

I've dumped my FMC's since going with Cisco 2960 switches. I do go from one 2960 to another via SFP, but no idea what that's doing to the sound, but it was cheap and easy to do and gives me that many more ports. The office rig goes straight from the 2960 to the UQ with just some cheap flat Teragrand. Sounds about the same as with the FMC's - not enough difference to continue justifying them and their iFi's. I'd try getting a cheap 2960 and SFP for it and see about replacing the Startech and Netgear with just that. You might be surprised. 

Thanks Simon and CharlesPhoto. I may well have a tinker sometime, plus I must read all the 2960 threads. A question... is the issue here related to the more complex DSP processing required for 1000 base-t and other gigabit physical standards? I always used to have a ferrite on my Ethernet to absorb any common mode noise, but removed it when I put the FMCs in. I also need to read up on clock recovery and synchronisation.... very very rusty as I’m 20 years away from doing any proper networking...

FRENCHROOSTER Morning - forgot to say i had looked into the Uptone LPS, but understand i would need a power supply (possibly ifi) to run that anyway - so i disregarded it. Will look into the Wyred option as if it powers two TP Links thats a cleaner setup for me.

Dave, 1000BaseT uses a different encoding technique to 100BaseT and uses all 4 pairs as opposed to 2 pairs (duplex) in the cable. Whether the signal processing is more advanced or not is I guess subjective, it is more demanding and a different encoding algorithm... i think its probably fair to say the algorithm is more advanced.

As far as clock recovery at the physical layer its probably fair to say few of us network engineers need to explore there these days - its a given from a data comms perspective... in my opinion its more when you are looking at the system side, physical integration and side effects - ie the more electronic engineering side does this topic become I guess of potentially more interest. Certainly low jitter clock recovery for serial and ethernet applications is a topic where there appear to be many IEEE papers.

Obsydian posted:

FRENCHROOSTER Morning - forgot to say i had looked into the Uptone LPS, but understand i would need a power supply (possibly ifi) to run that anyway - so i disregarded it. Will look into the Wyred option as if it powers two TP Links thats a cleaner setup for me.

uptone js2 can power 2 items, 2X5v or 2X12v or 5v and 12v.    uptone lps can power only one item.  you don’t need other ps to run the lps.  2 lps are less expensive than the js2.  i hope it can help you.    

My curiosity has got the better of me again... Cisco Catalyst 2960-8TC-S, Fibre SFP module and 10m LC-LC patch cable incoming. Will post my thoughts in a week or two.

Dave. 

DaveBk posted:

My curiosity has got the better of me again... Cisco Catalyst 2960-8TC-S, Fibre SFP module and 10m LC-LC patch cable incoming. Will post my thoughts in a week or two.

Dave. 

2 cisco with fiber sfp? 

DaveBk posted:

My curiosity has got the better of me again... Cisco Catalyst 2960-8TC-S, Fibre SFP module and 10m LC-LC patch cable incoming. Will post my thoughts in a week or two.

Dave. 

At some point, I will try to find time to unplug my SFPs and revert to regular Cat5e just to see how it compares.

French Rooster posted:

DaveBk posted:

My curiosity has got the better of me again... Cisco Catalyst 2960-8TC-S, Fibre SFP module and 10m LC-LC patch cable incoming. Will post my thoughts in a week or two.

Dave. 

2 cisco with fiber sfp? 

Yes, dropping from my main SG300 to the 2960 which will be at the bottom of my brain rack when it arrives next week. 

ChrisSU posted:

DaveBk posted:

My curiosity has got the better of me again... Cisco Catalyst 2960-8TC-S, Fibre SFP module and 10m LC-LC patch cable incoming. Will post my thoughts in a week or two.

Dave. 

At some point, I will try to find time to unplug my SFPs and revert to regular Cat5e just to see how it compares.

Well SFPs come in fibre or twisted pair variants, so should be really easy to swap like for like.

DaveBk posted:

French Rooster posted:

DaveBk posted:

My curiosity has got the better of me again... Cisco Catalyst 2960-8TC-S, Fibre SFP module and 10m LC-LC patch cable incoming. Will post my thoughts in a week or two.

Dave. 

2 cisco with fiber sfp? 

Yes, dropping from my main SG300 to the 2960 which will be at the bottom of my brain rack when it arrives next week. 

I had a Cisco 300 series switch a little while ago, and with a few SFPs in it, found that it was very electrically noisy, and also hummed away audibly and got a bit warm. Maybe not a problem if it's well away from your audio gear, but I swapped mine for another 2960 anyway.  

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

ChrisSU posted:

DaveBk posted:

My curiosity has got the better of me again... Cisco Catalyst 2960-8TC-S, Fibre SFP module and 10m LC-LC patch cable incoming. Will post my thoughts in a week or two.

Dave. 

At some point, I will try to find time to unplug my SFPs and revert to regular Cat5e just to see how it compares.

Well SFPs come in fibre or twisted pair variants, so should be really easy to swap like for like.

What I meant to say is that I would unplug the fibre from the SFP! I have plenty of spare RJ45 ports at both ends for comparison purposes, so no need for swapping SFPs. Besides, I don't have an ESD strap which I'm told I should be using if I change the SFPs.

ChrisSU posted:

DaveBk posted:

French Rooster posted:

DaveBk posted:

My curiosity has got the better of me again... Cisco Catalyst 2960-8TC-S, Fibre SFP module and 10m LC-LC patch cable incoming. Will post my thoughts in a week or two.

Dave. 

2 cisco with fiber sfp? 

Yes, dropping from my main SG300 to the 2960 which will be at the bottom of my brain rack when it arrives next week. 

I had a Cisco 300 series switch a little while ago, and with a few SFPs in it, found that it was very electrically noisy, and also hummed away audibly and got a bit warm. Maybe not a problem if it's well away from your audio gear, but I swapped mine for another 2960 anyway.  

Mines in the garage loft, different electrical circuit to the HiFi, and seems quite cool. Hopefully okay...

DaveBk posted:

ChrisSU posted:

DaveBk posted:

French Rooster posted:

DaveBk posted:

My curiosity has got the better of me again... Cisco Catalyst 2960-8TC-S, Fibre SFP module and 10m LC-LC patch cable incoming. Will post my thoughts in a week or two.

Dave. 

2 cisco with fiber sfp? 

Yes, dropping from my main SG300 to the 2960 which will be at the bottom of my brain rack when it arrives next week. 

I had a Cisco 300 series switch a little while ago, and with a few SFPs in it, found that it was very electrically noisy, and also hummed away audibly and got a bit warm. Maybe not a problem if it's well away from your audio gear, but I swapped mine for another 2960 anyway.  

Mines in the garage loft, different electrical circuit to the HiFi, and seems quite cool. Hopefully okay...

Mine was in the kitchen, and sounded uncannily like bacon in a frying pan!