Supernait 2 sub-out cable

Naim has its' own cable for this application...ask your dealer

ATB,

Mark

any other users of a subwoofer with SN2 ?

which sub out cable do you use and why ?

I used to use one with a Nait XS 2 (and now use the same sub with a 272)

I used a short (1m) Chord C-Line cables to connect the XS 2 to a small Digital Signal Processor box and used that to drive the longer cables connected to the sub.  This avoids the longer cables 'loading' the output from the pre-amp.

I could then use the DSP to precisely control the crossover to the sub and also to provide correction for the primary resonance modes of my listening room, without disturbing the delicate signal to the main speakers.

mpw posted:

any other users of a subwoofer with SN2 ?

 

which sub out cable do you use and why ?

Any ordinary good quality interconnect will work, no need to pay premium

I use Mogami or Van Damme which is used in many studios around.

I allways order longer lenght than actually needed (2 M) because its nice to have that extra Mtr for optimise position

When I purchased my BK subs I use their included cable with good results

Thank you Perol

I guess Mogami 2534 should fit the role

Its available near me at about GBP 20 for a 1.5 meter pair

regards

or a belden 1505F

as of now i run a 2.1 system ( 1 subwoofer )

is it possible to connect 2 subwoofers to the Naim Supernait 2 ?

regards

Mogami 2497 will be better than any of the Mogami, Belden or van Damme cables above.

A miniDSP 2x4 is capable of interfacing up to 4 subs to a Supernait.

You also haven't said what's wrong with your current cables.

Huge

Thank you !

My present sub out RCA cable i use is a local cable.

Not that i will ( may )  be able to hear anything more / differentiate if i change to branded

Just that i wanted to know if the sub out cable is a normal RCA cable or it is to comply to certain spec .

The 2nd subwoofer is something i thinking of ( again not that i am unhappy - but maybe that would be a better RoI soundwise )

But the DSP thing puts me off.

I think the bass or the lower octaves play a major role in supporting the music

I hope you had a chance to see my rig on System pics 2018 page no 26

why do you recommend the Mogami 2497 above anything else for this role ?

best regards

mpw

Sorry to hi-jack this thread.. But what subwoofers (and speakers) are you using with your Supernaits? I´m thinking of another upgrade path since Hi-Cap DR was not for me..

SN2/NDX/Ovator S-400/Pro-Ject TT/Stageline N

Magnus

I use the Merlin TSM Black Magic sealed speakers

Sub - semi DiY Dayton RS226 10 inch driver with Hypex DS4 plate amp - sealed subwoofer

My rig can be seen on the system pics 2018 thread page 26

why did the HCDR not work for you ?

regards

mpw posted:

...
Not that i will ( may )  be able to hear anything more / differentiate if i change to branded

Just that i wanted to know if the sub out cable is a normal RCA cable or it is to comply to certain spec .

Certainly true, you may indeed not hear a change or it may be very subtle.

There's no specific spec for the sub cable other than to say that is should be of very low capacitance (to avoid affecting the pre-amp circuit), hence keeping the cable connected to the amp quite short is a good idea.

mpw posted:

 

The 2nd subwoofer is something i thinking of ( again not that i am unhappy - but maybe that would be a better RoI soundwise ) 

The only real advantage here is if you can't position a single sub to cover the whole of the "listening area" or you need a particularly large listening area.  With on sub you can get local 'nulls' in it's distribution pattern, and a second can be position to 'fill in' the nulls.

mpw posted:

 

But the DSP thing puts me off.

I think the bass or the lower octaves play a major role in supporting the music

You needn't be scared of the DSP thing, if you don't programme the miniDSP, it just passes everything through R(in) -> R(out)1 & R(out)2, L(in) -> L(out)1 & L(out)2; however that's only using half the benefit.  All rooms (even after extensive room treatment) have bass resonances that cause strong peaks and the DSP can reduce the strength of there.  The DSP on a sub can sort out the overall bass response of the room and sub together, allowing it to support the musing even more cleanly.  The DSP can also be used to get much more accurate control of the integration between the main speakers and the sub.

Which leads me to the next point

mpw posted:

 

I hope you had a chance to see my rig on System pics 2018 page no 26

If you position the sub the same distance from your listening position as are your main speakers (as you have), then the integration between the mains and the sub can't be properly optimised due to the group delay (a type of time delay) of the sub's amplifier (typically this is between 2 and 5ms).  This implies that the sub should be 0.68m to 1.7m closer to the listening position than are the main speakers (the actual distance required is dependant on the characteristics of sub).  If you use a DSP then you can have the sub at the closer distance and increase the time delay in the DSP until the sound from the sub is in accurate phase alignment to the main speakers.

mpw posted:

 

why do you recommend the Mogami 2497 above anything else for this role ?

It's very low capacitance and when I tried it it did give some benefits in terms of 'solidity' and preservation of leading edges.

Huge

thanks for all the info

I looked at your profile and wanted to contact but i see no contact email

Mine is in my profile

I am not on FB

can you send me a test email please..

i might need to chat with you a few times on DSP ( promise not to bug you too much  ) 

Alternately, if the moderator and the naim forum is Ok then i can ask questions to you on this thread itself.

few things on my bucket list :-

a. A better CDP ( source )  than the Philips CD750 i am using now.

b. My Lenco L75 DiY project is stuck due to time constraints

c. The DSP seems to be not very expensive and possible to do quickly.

One more thing - the subwoofer RCA cable i am using is Neutrik Swissflex NK 1/4 SIAM - this seems to be a guitar / instrument cable. I do not know its noise rejection characteristics.

Maybe just maybe i can get a better subwoofer cable for not too much outlay.

best regards

mpw

mpw posted:

Magnus

I use the Merlin TSM Black Magic sealed speakers

Sub - semi DiY Dayton RS226 10 inch driver with Hypex DS4 plate amp - sealed subwoofer

My rig can be seen on the system pics 2018 thread page 26

why did the HCDR not work for you ?

regards

Thank´s. Will check "page 26"

Well, the HCDR brought more "HiFi" but less fun.. On good recordings it sounded better but on average recordings I did not like what it brought to the overall sound.

magnus

approx how many hours or how old is your SN2 ?

I was exchanging emails with someone who has replaced the stock power cord of the SN2 with " cryogenically treated power cord from Ice Age Audio (the copper/copper version) "

fyi..

regards

@MPW It´s 2,5 years old and runs very, very much :-)

"cryogenically treated power...." Not for me thank you very much 

I use two JL fathom 110 subs with my SN2. The fathoms have stereo inputs with one of the RCA inputs useable for mono operation, so I just connect the RCA lead for the left channel to the mono input on the left sub and the RCA lead for the right channel to the mono input on the right sub. The subs then operate in stereo, which is noticeable, even when cutover is set to 40Hz. The cutover is a slope, so they are probably putting out meaningful output as high as 50Hz, which is very directional. They blend very well with my Harbeths. I love them.

For cables, I just use two Blue Jeans LC-1 RCA cables, which are constructed of Belden 1694 with Canare connectors. Very good cables for not much money.

Thanks Clemenza for useful information.  I did not realize the type of connection you mentioned was a possibility.

I think the Fathoms can also be daisy chained ??

I was of the thinking that there can be 2 Y splitter's to feed the sub out signal to 2 sub-woofers.

It would be nice to see a pic of your system - if you permit and can post on System pics 2018 pages.

Many thanks

Placed an order for Mogami 2497 today a 1.5 meter pair

cost me 54 GBP in INR delivered to my home

regards

mpw

mpw posted:

Thanks Clemenza for useful information.  I did not realize the type of connection you mentioned was a possibility.

I think the Fathoms can also be daisy chained ??

I was of the thinking that there can be 2 Y splitter's to feed the sub out signal to 2 sub-woofers.

It would be nice to see a pic of your system - if you permit and can post on System pics 2018 pages.

Many thanks

 

Hi MPW, I'll try to take some pics to show you the setup, but basically my system is just ND5XS>NDAC>SN2/HCDR. The SN2 runs the Harbeth 30.1s off the speaker leads, and the two subouts on the SN2 feed each of the mono inputs on the two JL subs. The subs are crossed over at 40-45Hz or so and I don't use the room optimization feature. They dial in rather well with everything set to defaults. The room optimization removes some life from the bass to my ear. Sounds tamed, like natural dynamic excursions end up getting clipped by the equalization. Some things are meant to boom a bit, my ear prefers the unrestrained dynamics and recognizes and compensates for the imperfection of the bass output, or so it seems anyway. Really just a user preference thing. The Harbeths slope off in the bass around 55Hz by my ear, depending on how close they are to a surrounding wall. Mine are about 3 feet from sidewalls and 5 feet from the front wall, about 8 feet apart and about 8 feet from me. The two JLs are almost in the front corners about 1.5 feet from the front and side walls and are pointed at me so they line up with speaker toe-in.  The sub volume I just adjusted until things sounded right. The result, for me, is a pretty dynamic, seamless sound with a good sense of dimensionality. I very much like it.

Yes, the Fathoms can be daisy chained with one serving as the master and the other a slave if you want a summed mono operation out of both. You could put both left and right out of the SN2 into the master sub and then daisy chain that signal to the slave. I prefer to just go stereo with them. Sounds more natural when a track has drumming or electric bass on the left or right channel. A lot of subs offer that flexibility, where you can put two stereo channels into them or just use one of the inputs marked "Dedicated Mono" or "Mono" or something like that.

Not sure if your amp plate has that dedicated mono, but you could experiment by just running one channel output from the SN2 into one of the channel inputs on your sub. I would think the splitter idea might work too, cheap enough to try anyway. I don't think I kept any of the splitters I used to have around or I would try it on mine to prove it out for you. If I can find them, I'll try it.

A pair of Mogami 2497 is home and i will see how it goes with respect to the earlier Neutrik Instrument Cable i had

Hopefully w/o any placebo effects....

You still need to time align the sub with the main speakers (i.e. to allow for the 2-5ms group delay typical of subs), before your crossover integration will be right.

that i hope to do through a friend who has the mini DSP and mike.

But he is busy because he is in a leadership role in a large company.

I am hoping i can have him over to my home as soon as time permits.

Try before i buy will help me evaluate in my own home first.

But even straight off the bat - there can be differences.

The refinements - hopefully - will follow.

best regards

Yes. using an instrumentation mike and an application like REW will show you a lot about your system.

And it makes setting up a sub properly so much easier! and the results are really worth the effort - even though I use a sub mote people are surprised how low the bass goes from my main speakers - then I turn off the sub and they can't believe that the bass wasn't coming from the main speakers at all.  Even when I turn the sub back on their ears and brain still think the bass is coming from the main speakers.

The trick is that if the level of the sub is appropriate and the signal is time coherent, the brain will automatically associated the bass with the harmonics.  Being higher frequencies, the harmonics do come from the main speakers, so that's where the brain assumes the bass must be as well!

Clemenza posted:

I use two JL fathom 110 subs with my SN2. The fathoms have stereo inputs with one of the RCA inputs useable for mono operation, so I just connect the RCA lead for the left channel to the mono input on the left sub and the RCA lead for the right channel to the mono input on the right sub. The subs then operate in stereo, which is noticeable, even when cutover is set to 40Hz. The cutover is a slope, so they are probably putting out meaningful output as high as 50Hz, which is very directional. They blend very well with my Harbeths. I love them.

For cables, I just use two Blue Jeans LC-1 RCA cables, which are constructed of Belden 1694 with Canare connectors. Very good cables for not much money.

I run in very similar configuration.  Blue Jeans LC-1 stereo RCA cable from SN2 to JL Audio e110 subwoofer.  ATC SCM19s are blending in incredibly well, and brought a tremendous increase in scale to the music.  Dealer came to the house to help set up the sub, which was tremendously helpful (even had I done it myself, I would have always second guessed my choices in phase adjustment &  crossover point). 

I consider the e110 addition to the ATC 19s to have been a phenomenal success – blend really well (great to hear same results with Harbeths).