Another NDS vs ND555 'shoot out'

Let us know when you get a date for it, mine’s due to leave the factory on the 16th of July.

No home demo? It must be good. Thank you for sharing.

You home demo a CD5si. When a source costs around 20,000 it has to be perfect anywhere.

Had the pleasure of the comparison at Acoustica this evening.

System was Core / NAC552 / 300DR into B&W 803D3 with SuperLumina throughout.  NDS / 555DR vs ND555 / 555DR swapping the interconnect between the sources (hence keeping the same input on the pre).  All electronics on Fraim.  Chord C-Stream for ethernet.  Nice to see the continuation of the green logo.

Although I'm not a big fan of the B&Ws, this was probably the best I've heard from them.  They have a slightly un-natural treble and a squidgy bass that doesn't appeal to me.  A little boom caused by the room too, but it wasn't excessive nor overwhelming. NDS first of course, then we swapped between the 2 sources a few times before settling in to a longer listen to the ND555.  Jason from Naim was looking after the demo.

First thing to say is that the NDS doesn't "sound broken".  It does a great job, just as it has done for a long while now.  We started with an acoustic guitar track then onto a trio of female folk singers listening to the NDS.  The trio was then played again for 40 seconds or so before switching over to the ND555 and listening to the same track again.  We selected some Shelby Lynne and repeated the process.

Its not a "gob smacking" change for me - its more subtle than that, but that shouldn't de-value the size of the upgrade, its just that you have to think about it rather than have it fed to you on a plate.  The instruments most definitely separate more clearly, the edges of notes are better defined without being edgy, you can hear more of the way in which a note is plucked on a string or how a bass line starts and stops more clearly.  Yet these more clearly defined instruments don't stand alone as the timing seems more coherent, enabling them to make better sense of the "whole" of the tune.  But the biggest impact for me was the added emotional element, particularly in Shelby Lynne's voice.  That was what stood out for me, once we'd settled into the changes.

Worth a longer audition at home, whilst the VFM, as ever, continues to be a personal choice of course.

Thanks to Acoustica and Jason for a very effective and relaxed dem.

yeti42 posted:

Let us know when you get a date for it, mine’s due to leave the factory on the 16th of July.

Nice one Yeti.   Did you order back in January, I'm wondering?   It'll be interesting to see how delivery dates pan out as more folks order and post on the forum, and even more interesting to see if the factory manages to honour them.  Here's praying for a smoothe running production line  

Harry posted:

No home demo? It must be good. Thank you for sharing.

Trust me, Harry, it is.

You sound very excited Roger and congratulations on your ND555!

Nice write up [@mention:46760295022432911]

rjstaines posted:

Harry posted:

No home demo? It must be good. Thank you for sharing.

Trust me, Harry, it is.

I trust you just fine. Not sure how much I trust my lounge. It can be unruly

Should be fun finding out . 

To my humble ears the ND555 certainly resolves better than the NDS, certain tracks make this quite obvious especially with vocals, it also provides a slightly faster and tighter sound, dare  I say getting closer to the presentation that a popular non Naim DAC manufacturer sounds quite often talked about on this forum

when you say «  closer », do you mean that the nd555 is still, for you, not as good as the popular non naim dac often cited?   

Well I would need to home demo to be know about that...but either way the ND555 is a wonderful bit of kit and I am sure those who decide to purchase it won’t be disappointed when they hear it in their own system.

If it is only getting closer then we wait until it arrives  

Just came back from an extended audtion of ND555 (vs NDS) via a 500-series system.

Damn... it’s good. It’s as if a vail was lifted. And I never realised NDS was ‘vailed’....

Has Internet radio closed the gap vs real FM, on the ND555?  Or would I need to run the NDX-FM alongside? 

Having both the NDX-FM/nDAC/555 and the NAT05XS in my system, the convenience of the integrated FM of the NDX outweighs the slight, but admitted, benefits to SQ of the NAT. I shall be selling the NAT.

Internet radio is obviously inferior to real FM on the NDX and the NAT.

What is the guidance for one who “wants it all”?

Thanks.

Nick

NickSeattle posted:

Has Internet radio closed the gap vs real FM, on the ND555?  Or would I need to run the NDX-FM alongside? 

Having both the NDX-FM/nDAC/555 and the NAT05XS in my system, the convenience of the integrated FM of the NDX outweighs the slight, but admitted, benefits to SQ of the NAT.

Internet radio is obviously inferior to real FM on the NDX and the NAT.

What is the guidance for one who “wants it all”?

Thanks.

Nick

Maybe a new Kick ass radio tuner, an MD 109?

Hi Nick,   I don’t believe internet radio has closed the gap on FM irrespective of the capabilities of the ND555,  it’s still a lossy stream.  The very limited FLAC services have shown a better/good-as service it can be done,  but I can’t see that happening except for a few specialist stations.   The other thing to keep in mind is a lot of the world is similtainiously broadcasting on two systems, FM & DAB or another digital system & is considering switching off FM,       When that happens I would go for webradio & especially so with the high bit rate transmissions,  even more so if FLAC becomes an easier to get possibility.

I suspect you’ll find like me that with  more resolving streamer renderers, the more the deficiencies of lossy AAC based internet radio becomes.  Now internet web radio with lossless FLAC streams is a different matter.. and Naim have told me they are watching that space closely and with semi regular discussion with certain key broadcasters.

Thanks, Emre and Mike-B.

I do not wish to be a provocateur; but I like the way FM is delivered by the NDX-FM (and Unitis, etc.), integrated with iRadio, as it is.  

Given that, what is a buyer of the ND555 to do?  Is there a happy way to run the NDX-FM in the same system.  Or is this forever to be a conundrum, or an awkward topic?

If I did not live in a town that delivered such staple FM this would only be a hypothetical question.  Alas, FM here is really good, especially for those who care enough ( like me) to pay ridiculous sums for small increments of improvement at e.g. turntables, etc.

Nick

sunbeamgls posted:

Its not a "gob smacking" change for me - its more subtle than that, but that shouldn't de-value the size of the upgrade, its just that you have to think about it rather than have it fed to you on a plate.  The instruments most definitely separate more clearly, the edges of notes are better defined without being edgy, you can hear more of the way in which a note is plucked on a string or how a bass line starts and stops more clearly.  Yet these more clearly defined instruments don't stand alone as the timing seems more coherent, enabling them to make better sense of the "whole" of the tune.  But the biggest impact for me was the added emotional element, particularly in Shelby Lynne's voice.  That was what stood out for me, once we'd settled into the changes.

 

Thanks for a very good, yet concise, description of the sound, Sunbeamgls. Like Roger, I often find it difficult to express in words the differences we hear, but top marks to you.

French Rooster posted:

when you say «  closer », do you mean that the nd555 is still, for you, not as good as the popular non naim dac often cited?   

Let’s keep it that way, calling it “non naim dac”, sounds better.... 

I am pleased that my initial buy of the ND555 get’s re-confirmed over and over again by you guys. And it’s also nice to hear that my initial show reflections, which lacked the NDS comparison, have been accurate. Now just hope that my ND555 will come soon. And that the demo’s also come to Germany for creating more appetite...

Bert - it was a right decision to order one. Poland expects deliveries sometime in September... (don’t know which year though )

NickSeattle posted:

................   I like the way FM is delivered by the NDX-FM (and Unitis, etc.), integrated with iRadio, as it is.  

Given that, what is a buyer of the ND555 to do?  Is there a happy way to run the NDX-FM in the same system.  Or is this forever to be a conundrum, or an awkward topic?

This is a slight thread drift,  but it is related to ND555  .....  Yes I too like the idea of an integrated FM/DAB (+ other digi radio) module.    But it is literally that a 3rd party module, it's small & relatively easy to fit into a streamer box,  but if the ND555 (& NDS) are space limited, or maybe for other Naim reasons,  then yes we need to find an alternative.             I too have NDX but chose not to go with the FM/DAB module as I was not impressed with SQ at the dealer demo,  I've always had FM tuners & prefer this & now have a NAT-05.    As & when the day comes that FM is no longer available as a quality national broadcast medium I will most likely just use webradio.   That said when that day does come I will have most likely be considering or already moved from NDX to another streamer & who knows what the future options will be.   

For those who have been attending the road show, is the ND555 you have been presented still a prototype, or pre-series for that matter, or is it really the final sales’ product? In other terms, should we expect a few more changes, implementation or software, over the next few months as sales increase, or is Salisbury now done and ready to hit the production line? We are talking a 500 series product after all, not a Uniti venture.. ????

Chag -

It’s pretty much done and dusted with a few tweaks to routing of wiring etc probably going on right up to final production. Unlikely to be significantly better than what we have heard barring home demo,s etc where we can really hear what it is capable of.