Fell in love with ATC SCM19s but fear The Mullet

Easy

202/200Dr to start with.

Later hicap , then either maximize your source if it's the only one in use or 282 first to improve any.

250 end of the game.

Hi Antonio. 

Had not thought about 202/200 but I didn’t want to state my ideas just so I didn’t lead the responses down a certain path

any reason you’d go for 202/200 over a Superuniti2? 

other than getting a mullet I wouldn't think of any.

I do apologise if I didn’t express appropriately

Would a Would a ND5XS>Supernair2>ATC SCM19 represent a mullet where’s as a ND5XS>NAC202>NAP200>ATC SCM19 wouldn’t?

Ok you wrote superuniti

Supernait2? Listened carefully at dealer's with the19's, It has nor the quality nor the quantity to be satisfied with. Also it wouldn't 't even serve as a stop gap being an integrated you'd have to upgrade twice in a row.

What about 272 and ATC SCM19A?  I have no first-hand experience but the 272/40A combo got a very favourable review in hifi+, I think. 

IF the holy grail is active SCM50s, the obvious power amplification for the SCM19 is the active version, SCM19A. That just leaves you with preamp to choose, which could remain unchanged when/if onecday you upgrade the ATCs. Whilst some people baulk at using a Naim preamp into active ATcs, others appear to do it happily. Maybe some searches on that would be worthwhile, or start another thread ‘do you use a Naim preamp with active ATCs?’

Antonio1 posted:

Ok you wrote superuniti

Supernait2? Listened carefully at dealer's with the19's, It has nor the quality nor the quantity to be satisfied with. Also it wouldn't 't even serve as a stop gap being an integrated you'd have to upgrade twice in a row.

My apologies. writing from my phone without glasses. Yes, I meant SN2, not SU

the ‘upgrade twice’ is the sort of move I’d want to stay away from

When you listened to the ATC SCM19, what did you compare the SN2 against?

Oh, and a mullet is nothing to fear - they don’t bite! (And can sound great!)

Timo posted:

What about 272 and ATC SCM19A?  I have no first-hand experience but the 272/40A combo got a very favourable review in hifi+, I think. 

That would be a lovely system indeed Timo but funds would not allow at the moment. Even if I sold both my ND5 XS and Nait XS I would be a long way from the 272 and 19A (the latter are few and far between in the s/h market given how relatively new they are)

Innocent Bystander posted:

IF the holy grail is active SCM50s, the obvious power amplification for the SCM19 is the active version, SCM19A. That just leaves you with preamp to choose, which could remain unchanged when/if onecday you upgrade the ATCs. Whilst some people baulk at using a Naim preamp into active ATcs, others appear to do it happily. Maybe some searches on that would be worthwhile, or start another thread ‘do you use a Naim preamp with active ATCs?’

I think aiming for active whilst taking a passive path is challenging...

I've done the search you describe and I would say that a NACN272 with ATC actives is exactly what you describe (A Naim PRE, just with a streamer in one box) and yes, it is a partnership that seems to be extremely popular.

Re. Naim stand alone pre amps with ATC actives; this is a bit more difficult since these cannot work without a separate PS or power amp... So I guess this is why I said in my post that " I would love the actives version  but that brings a whole set of repercussions/requirements (eg. balanced output pre-amps, can't be Naim because Naim Pre can't work on their own, etc)"

What I gather, my options are

ND5XS>Supernait2>ATC SCM19

or

ND5XS>NAC202>NAP200>ATC SCM19

Apparently the idea of using my Nait XS as a pre to feed a NAP250 is seen as a big No no. In my opinion this would allow me a 'working system' for a few years until I can afford a better pre.

but I seek our forum's advice because I fear that Im not thinking outside the box enough

Alonso posted:

Antonio1 posted:

Ok you wrote superuniti

Supernait2? Listened carefully at dealer's with the19's, It has nor the quality nor the quantity to be satisfied with. Also it wouldn't 't even serve as a stop gap being an integrated you'd have to upgrade twice in a row.

My apologies. writing from my phone without glasses. Yes, I meant SN2, not SU

the ‘upgrade twice’ is the sort of move I’d want to stay away from

When you listened to the ATC SCM19, what did you compare the SN2 against?

 

 

202/hicapdr/200 atc11 I have at home  and272/active40 make music

sn2-19 is a no-no ,just try yourself.

Alonso, have you listened to SCM19s in your own room? How are you so sure that they would be the right speakers for you? They will probably need a NAP250 to drive them properly, which arguably makes your ND5XS source a mullet. Whatever upgrade plans you have, it pays to have an endgame to aim for in the form of a well balanced system

Why not go Olive - 102/Napsc/HC/180?

Ditch The ND5xs in  whatever you do

Alonso, an interesting thread with the various responses, yours included. My two cents worth;

1) I demo'd the 19 powered by SN2 at a Naim dealer. Sounded fine with no obvious lack of command to my ears in a medium sized, well-damped room. I was strictly interested in speakers, and the dealer gave no indication the 19 might be at a deficit with the SN2. Ergo, I wouldn't rule out the SN2 as a capable integrated.

2) Antonio1 suggests a 200DR (70-watts) to start, then a 250 (80-watts) as end of game, yet discounts a SN2 (or SuperUniti), each 80-watts. I don't see useful information there regarding power amplification, other than a person advocating separates over integrateds. Ergo, I wouldn't rule out the SN2 as a capable integrated.

3) As Innocent Bystander points out, if your end game is active 50, why not just go with active modules on the 19 to begin with? In which case why not go with a ATC pre as well? Keep the same interconnects throughout. Are you resolute on keeping a Naim pre in your system? If so, the 272 has been suggested as one that can work with ATC speakers. Some here are using other Naim pre-amps with their 19. So you have options in that regard.

4) Any speaker will improve with increasing power. You just need to determine how much is enough for your 19 in your room.

Perol posted:

Ditch The ND5xs in  whatever you do

The ND5XS is not a bad player - yes it can be bettered, but if changing the speakers improves the character of the sound, that is likely to be more satisfying than running a better source with the existing speakers if resources preclude both.

or ATC SiA150 + SCM 19

or

ATC pre + SCM 19A

try to audition these

ChrisSU posted:

Alonso, have you listened to SCM19s in your own room? How are you so sure that they would be the right speakers for you? They will probably need a NAP250 to drive them properly, which arguably makes your ND5XS source a mullet. Whatever upgrade plans you have, it pays to have an endgame to aim for in the form of a well balanced system

Chris, I found with the new ATCs, you don’t need particularly muscly  amps to drive them... I think that view came from the older designs which had quite a challenging impedance curve coupled with quite low sensitivity. Although the new designs are no more sensitive because of being an infinite baffle design speaker, they are better behaved impedance curve wise, assuming you don’t want sofa shaking volumes or a large room to fill, I found the  NaitXS 2 worked rather well with the 19s and 11s.. so most if not all current Naim amps are going to work well with the ATCs... Naim amps and the current ATC passives make a wonderfully enjoyable combination... in my opinion... in my room I haven’t yet bettered that combo.. and out of curiosity I quite enjoy sampling other speakers from my obliging dealer...

Simon sums it up perfectly, the new ATCs are definitely much easier to drive than the older versions. Last year I bought the ATC SCM11 to use with my NAP200. Have to say the NAP200 has absolutely no problem whatsoever with the SCM11. It is able to drive them to significantly high levels.

Ian.

Alonso posted:

You can see my current system on my profile and as much as I would love to, I cannot afford what would ultimately be my end-game (SCM50ASL) so I have to be realistic. Realistic comes in the shape of a pair of ATC SCM19 (what drives them is the open variable). I would love the actives version  but that brings a whole set of repercussions/requirements (eg. balanced output pre-amps, can't be Naim because Naim Pre can't work on their own, etc)  

If I ever change my SCM19A's, which are sounding ridiculously good at the moment, it would be for a pair of 50A Classics, that would be end-game for me also. As good as the 19's are, they give a good hint at deep bass but with the 50's I'd be looking to get an increased feeling of weight and effortlessness that only seems to come from large displacement drivers in large cabinets. Some might say you need 150's for that, but got to be realistic and for various reasons that's never going to happen!

Or ATC say their sub woofers ars designed for that.. ie to extended their infinite baffle designs in the lower registers... as clearly speakers like the 19s can go very low, but the efficiency falls off rapidly below 40Hz or so... so then becomes rather room dependent on effictivess.

joerand posted:

 

2) Antonio1 suggests a 200DR (70-watts) to start, then a 250 (80-watts) as end of game, yet discounts a SN2 (or SuperUniti), each 80-watts. I don't see useful information there regarding power amplification, other than a person advocating separates over integrateds. Ergo, I wouldn't rule out the SN2 as a capable integrated.

 

I knew someone would point at that.

It's a misleading approach.

Hi, could you not just add an active version of the speakers to your current amplifier to get going?

joerand posted:

Alonso, an interesting thread with the various responses, yours included. My two cents worth;

1) I demo'd the 19 powered by SN2 at a Naim dealer. Sounded fine with no obvious lack of command to my ears in a medium sized, well-damped room. I was strictly interested in speakers, and the dealer gave no indication the 19 might be at a deficit with the SN2. Ergo, I wouldn't rule out the SN2 as a capable integrated.

2) Antonio1 suggests a 200DR (70-watts) to start, then a 250 (80-watts) as end of game, yet discounts a SN2 (or SuperUniti), each 80-watts. I don't see useful information there regarding power amplification, other than a person advocating separates over integrateds. Ergo, I wouldn't rule out the SN2 as a capable integrated.

3) As Innocent Bystander points out, if your end game is active 50, why not just go with active modules on the 19 to begin with? In which case why not go with a ATC pre as well? Keep the same interconnects throughout. Are you resolute on keeping a Naim pre in your system? If so, the 272 has been suggested as one that can work with ATC speakers. Some here are using other Naim pre-amps with their 19. So you have options in that regard.

4) Any speaker will improve with increasing power. You just need to determine how much is enough for your 19 in your room.

Hi Joe, thank you for taking the time to write such a considerate and thoughtful response 

I tend to agree with you. I listened to the SCM19 with my own Nait XS (Not even the XS2) as amplification (not in my home though) and it sounded really good (the source? A good technics streamer) - Sure, I  guess there are some here how might think that because I have not heard the real thing, (SCM19 driven by a NAP500) I don't know what I am missing, but for me, even the Nait XS made lovely music with the 19s, music with bite and attack. This experience is what leads me to believe the SN2 would be more than adequate with the SCM19

Re my End game being the active 50s, maybe I should not have said endgame but dream system. They are really out of reach for me now.  

Re. your point 3. What I did not understand was how, if my "End game" was the SCM50A, the SCM19A would help? ultimately they'd have to be sold off too, right? Did you mean in terms of 'flavour'?

 Having said that, I HAVE considered the 19A, they are a very tempting proposition, but I dont want to be stuck with a source or a a pair of speakers with nothing to connect them to for more than 2 years ... If I sell my Nait XS and my ND5XS to buy say the NACN272, I'd have to save for another 3 years to buy the SCM19A (!) - I just don't have the disposable income to make such large purchases in quick succession.

I am leaning to the SN2 as the 'first stage' (use it with the Motives 2 for now) and in about a year, purchase the SCM19. Still, I am here asking to make sure I am not missing out something or not thinking viable options. I am still open