What should go into an Ethernet Switch

I feel like this is all getting out of hand, but luckily it seems to be restricted to the naim forum!

Use a switch for its intended use, having multiple switches because you believe it might 'sound' better is madness. removing your fridge from your house would be better still, remove all wall warts from your house, it will sound better. Move to a concrete bunker with isolated electrical feed directly from the power company, no internet, no wifi. It will sound better.

The recommended switch around here is grossly obsolete. Meaning you will be restricting bandwidth to your nuk by 10 times, if you subscribe to the madness then your only real choice is two switches connected to the main switch. On the upside with all those switches it should sound awesome!

100% Gary     .....  madness

One switch is all you need.  I would aurgue it’s best to have all the audio on one switch anyhow.      If it makes the wire runs simpler and/or cost effective then maybe consider a 2nd switch.  

Garyi

Thank  for the response . I’ve clearly unwittingly hit a nerve here and I hope you feel better after your vent :-) 

 The background to my post is this. I currently live in Seattle and if you count up music devices , servers , PC’s , phones, Blu Ray players, Xbox , TV’s etc then you get to over 20 devices in the house . Despite having Gigabit Internet and using wireless boosters , wireless has proven that it doesn’t give the reliability I need for that setup.  One of the delights of Seattle’s Craftsman houses is that they are wooden and so running Ethernet cable to all the various rooms is easy and cost effective . 

I am about to move back to Scotland to a Victorian house with very thick stone walls , severe issues with wireless coverage and the delight of BT High Speed Internet at 67MB !!

With that sort of set up I don’t know how else to make it work other than with Ethernet switches? 

Given that all I was asking was is there any detrimental impact on running a server and a NAS on the same switch that is connected to my main music streamer? I suspect there is in which case I will connect them to the other switch I plan to connect to the 4 port BT Home Hub 

I Hope this helps clarify my post and to be clear I am doing all of this so that I can enjoy listening to music in what will be a magnificent dedicated listening room ! 

As I understand it, it’s best to connect all the hifi stuff to the same switch, which in my case means the streamer and the nas. The music then goes directly from the nas to the streamer without going to the router, and is isolated from other network goings on. We have one wire from the router to the hifi switch, and another wire to a different switch for the computers. 

What should go into an Ethernet Switch?

Surely ether!

Sorry, couldn't resist

I have 3 switches to give the connectivity I need around the house. The connection from my Unitiserve has to go through all 3 of them to reach my NDX, and I have another server which has to go through 2. I can detect no difference in performance between this arrangement, and having all the audio stuff on the same switch. I would be more concerned about power circuit isolation between the HiFi stuff and any other stuff with noisy PSUs than I would about Ethernet connections. Which side of this arrangement the Unitiserve should sit on, I will leave you to agonise over!

I'm with HH, I use the same layout, simple and it works.  I haven't tried plugging the PC into the 'audio' switch and listening for changes, as I needed a separate Gigabit switch in a different location for the WAP (and the ADSL router) and it was convenient to also use that for the PC.

And Gary I use a Cisco 2960G 8TC-L, so I'm not restricting the bandwidth by a factor of 10.
Yes it's an obsolete produce, but it does the same thing as the current production models and it's designed and built to last for many many years.

Huge posted:

I'm with HH, I use the same layout, simple and it works.  I haven't tried plugging the PC into the 'audio' switch and listening for changes, as I needed a separate Gigabit switch in a different location for the WAP (and the ADSL router) and it was convenient to also use that for the PC.

And Gary I use a Cisco 2960G 8TC-L, so I'm not restricting the bandwidth by a factor of 10.
Yes it's an obsolete produce, but it does the same thing as the current production models and it's designed and built to last for many many years.

Best throw away that obsolete 272 then, Huge. Just think of all the bits your 2960G could throw at it if only it could cope with them 

Agree with Hungryhalibut, using a switch dedicated to music setup is the way to go because as Hungryhalibut says, it cuts the router and the router to switch lan cable out of the loop, you can also place the switch remotely from the router. Try and position the switch closer to the hi-fi to keep network cables to the minimum length, especially if you're considering Hi spec/price specialist lan cable. If your router is next to the Hi Fi it might be worth connecting the hi-fi directly if there's enough lan options. I'm going to to experiment with this when I get my new router, I'll post any positive or negatives. Rich 

ChrisSU posted:

Huge posted:

I'm with HH, I use the same layout, simple and it works.  I haven't tried plugging the PC into the 'audio' switch and listening for changes, as I needed a separate Gigabit switch in a different location for the WAP (and the ADSL router) and it was convenient to also use that for the PC.

And Gary I use a Cisco 2960G 8TC-L, so I'm not restricting the bandwidth by a factor of 10.
Yes it's an obsolete produce, but it does the same thing as the current production models and it's designed and built to last for many many years.

Best throw away that obsolete 272 then, Huge. Just think of all the bits your 2960G could throw at it if only it could cope with them 

Then I'd just need some Ultra-Mega-Super-Enhanced-HiDef recordings (along with whatever it is that could play them!).

Just one switch to rule them all is what you need. Plug everything into it.

Key to your success: LAN cables spread around your house.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Just one switch to rule them all is what you need. Plug everything into it.

Key to your success: LAN cables spread around your house.

That will depend on how many cables you are prepared to run all over the house. If every wired device needs a long cable back to a single switch, that makes for a lot of cables which for me would be a right PITA. I prefer to run single gigabit "uplink" cables to key locations, and have switches there to connect to individual devices and WAPs.

garyi posted:

I feel like this is all getting out of hand, but luckily it seems to be restricted to the naim forum!

Use a switch for its intended use, having multiple switches because you believe it might 'sound' better is madness. removing your fridge from your house would be better still, remove all wall warts from your house, it will sound better. Move to a concrete bunker with isolated electrical feed directly from the power company, no internet, no wifi. It will sound better.

The recommended switch around here is grossly obsolete. Meaning you will be restricting bandwidth to your nuk by 10 times, if you subscribe to the madness then your only real choice is two switches connected to the main switch. On the upside with all those switches it should sound awesome!

 

???? GARYI,....This said with respect....again.!
I'm so tired of such comments.

It would be better to answer TERRYSMI's question,instead of irony as you do here.!And, if you have no idea, or believe in this.... why then at all write in the thread.

If you think this is nonsense, then start your own thread on that subject,..Instead of stupidly explaining those who hear the difference,or want to try to optimize their system.And because of this,trying to get advice here.

It would be perceived more respectfully and seriously,don't you think.!

As Terrysmi wrote.....Garyi
Thank  for the response . I’ve clearly unwittingly hit a nerve here and I hope you feel better after your vent :-) 

Looked in your profile, but it didn't stand much....so you get no idea of your potential experience on the subject.

And,if you think about your answers, comments here...and then compare them with, for example, "Simon In Suffolk's". Who do you think then,Members here puts the greatest faith in.

/Peder???? 

GARY  should change his avatar in « NONSENSE « ,  he mentions it in each of his responses....

garyi posted:

I feel like this is all getting out of hand, but luckily it seems to be restricted to the naim forum!

Use a switch for its intended use, having multiple switches because you believe it might 'sound' better is madness. removing your fridge from your house would be better still, remove all wall warts from your house, it will sound better. Move to a concrete bunker with isolated electrical feed directly from the power company, no internet, no wifi. It will sound better.

The recommended switch around here is grossly obsolete. Meaning you will be restricting bandwidth to your nuk by 10 times, if you subscribe to the madness then your only real choice is two switches connected to the main switch. On the upside with all those switches it should sound awesome!

 

+1

Spot on, completely agreed.

???? FRANK YANG,....Very interesting,so you think in other words,that it is okay,to irony and mock others posts and questions,..as the OP start a thread to get answers on.

There I can tell you Frank Yang,that we differ 100%,... and my respect for you got a very strong blow.

Your profile also does not provide much information about your experience in,around this issue.
It would have been more respectful towards Terrysmi (OP), if you instead reported your attitude on the substantive matter more thoroughly.
And how you have come up with your position... listening, tested,try, etc....

This your statement just says nothing.

/Peder ????

Take it easy, Peder !

All I say is that make sure that you have a good switch and a good ethernet cable. It does not make sense to me that you limit yourself to an obsolete, low speed switch, and use it exclusively for your HIFI.

Frank Yang posted:

Take it easy, Peder !

All I say is that make sure that you have a good switch and a good ethernet cable. It does not make sense to me that you limit yourself to an obsolete, low speed switch, and use it exclusively for your HIFI.

???? Frank Yang,.....It's okay..What you are writing now.
And that is possible to discuss,and have different viewpoints on,..it can be respected.

But then you might not have written....

????" +1 Spot on, completely agreed ". On the whole " GARYI's " posts.

It is then understood,that you support ironic and mocking posts.
Good that you clarified this.

/Peder ????

It does not matter how many switches there are, or what device is connected to what switch.
Network traffic is digital. What matters is that all the data packets get from the sender to the receiver unchanged, in the correct order, and at the correct time (which is what switches do), So long as that happens then audio quality is completely unaffected.

In my opinion, the most important consideration for any domestic wired network is future-proofing. Installing a wired network can be expensive and the network that suits now may not suffice in five years time. Who knows what tomorrow's children will want/request/need! Cat6 cable is essential, and you can't have too many network wall sockets. Switches are easily changed, hidden cable is not.

Peder posted:

garyi posted:

I feel like this is all getting out of hand, but luckily it seems to be restricted to the naim forum!

Use a switch for its intended use, having multiple switches because you believe it might 'sound' better is madness. removing your fridge from your house would be better still, remove all wall warts from your house, it will sound better. Move to a concrete bunker with isolated electrical feed directly from the power company, no internet, no wifi. It will sound better.

The recommended switch around here is grossly obsolete. Meaning you will be restricting bandwidth to your nuk by 10 times, if you subscribe to the madness then your only real choice is two switches connected to the main switch. On the upside with all those switches it should sound awesome!

 

???? GARYI,....This said with respect....again.!
I'm so tired of such comments.

It would be better to answer TERRYSMI's question,instead of irony as you do here.!And, if you have no idea, or believe in this.... why then at all write in the thread.

If you think this is nonsense, then start your own thread on that subject,..Instead of stupidly explaining those who hear the difference,or want to try to optimize their system.And because of this,trying to get advice here.

It would be perceived more respectfully and seriously,don't you think.!

As Terrysmi wrote.....Garyi
Thank  for the response . I’ve clearly unwittingly hit a nerve here and I hope you feel better after your vent :-) 

Looked in your profile, but it didn't stand much....so you get no idea of your potential experience on the subject.

And,if you think about your answers, comments here...and then compare them with, for example, "Simon In Suffolk's". Who do you think then,Members here puts the greatest faith in.

/Peder???? 

It's essential for everyone to have a voice on these subjects and it is not your position to tell me what to do.

Its a forum, someone is asking for advise, I have offered advise, the fact my advise is contrary to your advise is neither here nor there. The risk for the audiophile community as has been proven time and time again is that it becomes a perfect echo chamber where everyone whips themselves into a frenzy over the latest 'thing'.

Remember Mana? I actually purchased some the other week at a reasonable price as I wanted something half way solid to put my hifi on the wall, first time I have seen it in the flesh. Its angle iron, not particularly well welded angle iron, yet back in the day men used to wet themselves every time they added another level of this stuff, and ohh the improvements it bought!

I am a terrible geek and really love computing, and networking, from custom routers through to home wiring, various servers, VPNs all sorts of good quality geek stuff. I also love audio and have always had a healthy scepticism for 'audiophile power cables' and all the rest of it, it disheartens me to see this entering into the good clean 1s and 0s world of computing. 

So yeah, I'll say something, each time.

Kiwi posted:

It does not matter how many switches there are, or what device is connected to what switch.
Network traffic is digital. What matters is that all the data packets get from the sender to the receiver unchanged, in the correct order, and at the correct time (which is what switches do), So long as that happens then audio quality is completely unaffected.

In my opinion, the most important consideration for any domestic wired network is future-proofing. Installing a wired network can be expensive and the network that suits now may not suffice in five years time. Who knows what tomorrow's children will want/request/need! Cat6 cable is essential, and you can't have too many network wall sockets. Switches are easily changed, hidden cable is not.

This I totally agree with, when I first embarked on networking my house, I put two ethernet sockets in the sitting room, 4 times I have re done it adding more and more, up to 8 now and wich I had just future proofed in the first place!

GARYI

I certainly didn't expect this string of responses to emerge from my original post and i don't want to add further fuel to the fire. However , you refer to the fact "you offered advise" in your response to my post but I'm genuinely struggling to see what that was? 

There were a lot of other posts that that did help and educate and thanks to all of you for responding . It really helped me in talking things through with my installer this morning . i will let you know what we finally decide and install as a mechanism to get hi-def streaming over wired connections into 6 rooms in the house 

Well if you want any help with a custom router, I am your man! I would also recommend patch panels with clip in jacks so much nicer to use as you can organise etc.

My advise is, -in my opinion- get a decent switch, if for practicality you need another then get two. You may wish to aggregate a few ports between them. Consider how best to serve your network rather than how a router may 'sound' in the hifi.

And through bitter experience, consider how many ports you will need in each room, then quadruple it! I have cat 5e and cat 6 running around the place. In my network at least cat 6 has no appreciable gains on 5, in reliability or throughout or indeed sound (!), and it sure is a lot harder to work with. Of course if you are paying someone else to deal with it, then fill yer boots.

Go wirless less mess, less fuss, now worrying about cables, switches. Mine just works and it's the best thing I did. It's sounds identical to what it did before using cable and switches. Just make sure you buy decent kit.

garyi posted:

Kiwi posted:

It does not matter how many switches there are, or what device is connected to what switch.
Network traffic is digital. What matters is that all the data packets get from the sender to the receiver unchanged, in the correct order, and at the correct time (which is what switches do), So long as that happens then audio quality is completely unaffected.

In my opinion, the most important consideration for any domestic wired network is future-proofing. Installing a wired network can be expensive and the network that suits now may not suffice in five years time. Who knows what tomorrow's children will want/request/need! Cat6 cable is essential, and you can't have too many network wall sockets. Switches are easily changed, hidden cable is not.

This I totally agree with, when I first embarked on networking my house, I put two ethernet sockets in the sitting room, 4 times I have re done it adding more and more, up to 8 now and wich I had just future proofed in the first place!

This is totally correct in my opinion... the switch(es) can be set up to suit house layout and wiring. Yes in larger setups there is the concept of core switches and edge switches.. but I really can’t see this applying to the vast majority home networks.

Now there are some benefits of having separated VLANs for audio and routing between VLANs,  it with use of multicast by UPnP discovery SSDP careful PIM routing configuration is required... but I suggest for >99% of people on this forum this is not necessary or beyond the users capability or ability of their consumer equipment.

 Simon