Electric Cars - Saviours of our environment or just another fad? (restart)

Posted by: winkyincanada on 29 June 2018

With Tesla Model 3 vehicles now becoming commonplace around our neighbourhood, my wife and I are contemplating an electric vehicle. I am resisting a bit because while I'd love an electric car, I don't really want us to have a second vehicle. No current electric car could readily replace the functionality of our mini-van, so we'd need to keep that. OK, perhaps a Model X but that's a bit expensive.

Nevertheless, my wife toured a few dealers looking at a few small-car options (Leaf, e-Golf, Hyundai Kona) alongside the Tesla. Observations:

None of them cheap in comparison to similar ICE vehicles, but the gap is closing.
Tesla still has the edge in performance and range (plus supercharging network).
The dealers quote long waiting lists for all of them. No e-cars are shipped on spec. They are all ordered.
Toyota are not yet interested at all in fully electric, preferring to stick with their hybrids.
BP just bought the UK's largest e-vehicle charging net work, and Shell are aggressively installing charging ports at their gas station. Do these oil giants want to shut it all down, or are they seeing an inevitable future?

Posted on: 05 July 2018 by Don Atkinson

A closer look.

Ok, perhaps decapitation was a bit over-the-top, but a really nasty bit of work, IMHO.

And yes, both cyclists and pedestrians use this new pavement.

Posted on: 06 July 2018 by Pcd

Just walked back from the local shops and saw the first of the local utilities Electric van rather strange to be waiting at the kerb and seeing the vehicle pull away making less noise than some Naim power supplies I’ve heard.

Posted on: 06 July 2018 by Innocent Bystander

Pcd posted:
Just walked back from the local shops and saw the first of the local utilities Electric van rather strange to be waiting at the kerb and seeing the vehicle pull away making less noise than some Naim power supplies I’ve heard.

1960s milk float comes to mind...

Posted on: 06 July 2018 by Pcd

Innocent Bystander posted:
Pcd posted:
Just walked back from the local shops and saw the first of the local utilities Electric van rather strange to be waiting at the kerb and seeing the vehicle pull away making less noise than some Naim power supplies I’ve heard.
1960s milk float comes to mind...

I lived in the sticks in the 1960s the milk float was pulled by Dobbin,slightly obnoxious gases at times but deposited a fine fertiliser for the roses.

Posted on: 06 July 2018 by Innocent Bystander

Pcd posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:
Pcd posted:
Just walked back from the local shops and saw the first of the local utilities Electric van rather strange to be waiting at the kerb and seeing the vehicle pull away making less noise than some Naim power supplies I’ve heard.
1960s milk float comes to mind...
I lived in the sticks in the 1960s the milk float was pulled by Dobbin,slightly obnoxious gases at times but deposited a fine fertiliser for the roses.

Living in outer London they were electric, perfect for the overall limited mileage but frequent stop-start over what I think was overall about an 8 hour delivery round. We were at the very end of out milkman’s roud, and he didn’t get there till atound 2 pm, though I understood 6 am or earlier start was normal - reputedly he had many cups of tea in customers house on the way, which is why he was so late getting to us. Others have suggested tea may not have been the primary pleasure of milkmen taking breaks during their rounds...

Posted on: 06 July 2018 by Pcd

Innocent Bystander posted:
Pcd posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:
Pcd posted:
Just walked back from the local shops and saw the first of the local utilities Electric van rather strange to be waiting at the kerb and seeing the vehicle pull away making less noise than some Naim power supplies I’ve heard.
1960s milk float comes to mind...
I lived in the sticks in the 1960s the milk float was pulled by Dobbin,slightly obnoxious gases at times but deposited a fine fertiliser for the roses.
Living in outer London they were electric, perfect for the overall limited mileage but frequent stop-start over what I think was overall about an 8 hour delivery round. We were at the very end of out milkman’s roud, and he didn’t get there till atound 2 pm, though I understood 6 am or earlier start was normal - reputedly he had many cups of tea in customers house on the way, which is why he was so late getting to us. Others have suggested tea may not have been the primary pleasure of milkmen taking breaks during their rounds...

IB, the supermarket I just walked back from in Keynsham is actually built on part of the old Coop milk distribution depot.

When we moved to Keynsham 45 years ago they must have been running a couple of dozen electric floats out of that depot at the time the company I worked for had their workshops a couple of hundred yards up the road. I can remember walking to work early in the morning and seeing the milk floats lined up as they started their daily deliveries, also remember the noise of the milk bottles rattling in the crates as they came out of the depot how times have changed.

Posted on: 06 July 2018 by winkyincanada

Don Atkinson posted:
A closer look.
Ok, perhaps decapitation was a bit over-the-top, but a really nasty bit of work, IMHO.
And yes, both cyclists and pedestrians use this new pavement.

Yeah, a bit of a trap for sure. Well done for following up on it. That path strikes me as too narrow for shared use to work well, unless it is only very lightly used. Is it one-way or two-way for bikes? What is half-lane next to the kerb for?

Posted on: 06 July 2018 by winkyincanada

winkyincanada posted:
Don Atkinson posted:

A closer look.
Ok, perhaps decapitation was a bit over-the-top, but a really nasty bit of work, IMHO.
And yes, both cyclists and pedestrians use this new pavement.
Yeah, a bit of a trap for sure. Well done for following up on it. That path strikes me as too narrow for shared use to work well, unless it is only very lightly used. Is it one-way or two-way for bikes? What is half-lane next to the kerb for?

Edit: I see you answered the question. It works pretty well that there is a lane for bikes on the road for faster cyclists while still allowing kids and slower cyclists to share the pavement (sidewalk) with pedestrians (as long as it isn't too busy). Better yet would be a fully protected lane for bikes and a separate (potentially slightly narrower) pavement/sidewalk. I think there is room for that, but a bit more costly. Low, modular pre-cast concrete curbs are an intermediate option that discourage motorists from drifting into the bike lane.

Posted on: 06 July 2018 by Don Atkinson

winkyincanada posted:
winkyincanada posted:
Don Atkinson posted:

A closer look.
Ok, perhaps decapitation was a bit over-the-top, but a really nasty bit of work, IMHO.
And yes, both cyclists and pedestrians use this new pavement.
Yeah, a bit of a trap for sure. Well done for following up on it. That path strikes me as too narrow for shared use to work well, unless it is only very lightly used. Is it one-way or two-way for bikes? What is half-lane next to the kerb for?
Edit: I see you answered the question. It works pretty well that there is a lane for bikes on the road for faster cyclists while still allowing kids and slower cyclists to share the pavement (sidewalk) with pedestrians (as long as it isn't too busy). Better yet would be a fully protected lane for bikes and a separate (potentially slightly narrower) pavement/sidewalk. I think there is room for that, but a bit more costly. Low, modular pre-cast concrete curbs are an intermediate option that discourage motorists from drifting into the bike lane.

Hi winky, I'm NOT the Highway Engineer, nor the cycle-lane "specialist" within the Highway Dept, nor anything to do with the Local Authority ets etc, just a local tax-payer !

I can comment and raise concerns, and I do when things look REALLY cr*p, but my time (and inclination) is limited. But I tend to agree with your comments.