How does the NAIT XS 2 handle 4 ohm speakers?

I should add that my room size is about 12x14.

-Brian

in my opinion Dynaudio Focus speaker I would get the Supernait 2.

I got the Focus 260 and drive that with a NAP250DR.

I used to use a Nait XS 2, but I was using it with Spendor SP2s which are an easy load (which the Dynaudios are not).  I've also compared the XS 2 to a Nait 5i on Wharfedale Pacific Evo 20s which are 6Ω, and the XS2 handled them with great aplomb.  The amp is capable of good PRaT with fairly solid bass rendition and control (more so than the 5i).  I have no knowledge of the Hegel, so I can't give a comparison there.

However, the only way to know for sure, is to take your speakers to a dealer and see how the XS 2 and SN2 get on (but bear in mind the XS 2 isn't a current model so you'll probably have to find a used one).

I used an XS (60 watt) with Focus 160s and felt the combo was great. No experience with Hegel. 

I currently use a Uniti Star with Focus 260s and there’s no desire to change. Likewise I listen to loud rock music quite often. I felt the 260s were slightly less top-end heavy and gave greater bass extension.

Huge posted:

...bear in mind the XS 2 isn't a current model....

Eh?

ECHOBASE, my guess is you may get more prat and punch at low to medium volume (different character) with the Nait but keep in mind that you are replacing a 250w /19kg amplifier with a 100w / 8.4kg amplifier...

With your speakers, when the XS2 gets turned up - it will sound louder.

With the SN2 or better, when turned up - it will sound larger.  Not in an exploded sense, but in a stronger lens focused sense. ( up to a point, of course )

SuperNait 2 

Hello Brian, I have a couple of spread sheets that may help you or others if they would like them.  I do not know if I can post them on the forum.  Though contact me off list via my profile email address and I will send them to you.

I have a pair of Celestion SL6 Si speakers which are 8 ohm 84 dB SPL.  I own an Nait XS2 and going by the spreadsheets I should have purchased the Super Nait 2 or something even larger for more head room if you listen to classical.  I use an App on my iPhone to display the SPL at the distance I was listening at and I found that 84 dB SPL (Coincidence) same as my speakers was comfortable.  I take this to mean that I was approximately driving the speakers with one to four watts of power.  The spreadsheet does list how much headroom you require for rock or classical or jazz.  The Nait XS2 was on the threshold for Rock.  For classical I should have chosen the Super Nait 2 or something even larger.  My Celestion's lack in the bass department and I can not comment on your Dybaudio speakers.

echobase - I can't answer directly, but based on my experience having owned or home demo'd a variety of integrateds with differing power levels and having previously owned 8-ohm speakers and now 4-ohm speakers, my advice would be not to consider the Nait XS2. Your Hegel is quite capable at 150Wpc into 8-ohms and 250Wpc into 4-ohms. Even the SN2 (which I previously owned) at 80Wpc into 8-ohms and 140Wpc into 4-ohms is likely to be a compromise for speaker command, and I doubt you'll find more slam with it.

4-ohm speakers require a powerful amp for slam and command. The PRaT itself may be more about the sonic signature of the pre. I suspect you're not getting involved with the Hegel's pre. Two powerful integrateds that will heartily drive 4-ohm speakers with slam, PRaT, and involvement that I can recommend from direct experience are the Plinius Hautonga (200 Wpc into 8-ohms and 280 Wpc into 4-ohms) and the Krell Vanguard (200 Wpc into 8-ohms and 400 Wpc into 4-ohms). Both are priced (in US$) same as the SN2. While I'd say the Krell is the more commanding integrated, I bought the Plinius because it has a tad more warmth and involvement, plus a fantastic built-in phono stage.

If you're sold-on and committed to Naim's sonic signature then it's probably best to look at separates with a high powered, DR'd amp that offers headroom for your 4-ohm speakers. Problem there is you're looking at far greater cost.

Newb question.  What does PRaT stand for please?

Gigantor posted:

Newb question.  What does PRaT stand for please?

Pace, Rhythm and Timing

PRaT = Pace Rhythm and Timing. The level of musical involvement and engagement you get while listening. Often ascribed here as a forte of Naim's sonic signature. Do you feel the groove? Are your toes or fingers tapping along with the beat?

Dear Joe,

Thank you for explaining.

Warm regards,

Paul.

I should also add thank you to Seakayaker as well.  Big thank you.

Warm regards,

Paul.

P.S.  I was think of a Marantz CD player.  Now you all have me reconsidering a CDX5 and out board power supply.

Thank you everyone for the confused thoughts.

XS2 should be OK, the SN2 more so or splitting the price for used components there is the 202/200 combo which would be my pick, I know others disagree. Auditioning is the best way of deciding but that might only be an option in the UK and for used gear you’ll probably have to travel with your speakers for that.

Dear Brian, if you could take a preferred SPL level that you like listening to.  I could crunch the numbers in the spread sheet and come up with a recommendation of the size of the amplifier that you may require.  Though those that have said plus 100 watts I think are on the money.  4 ohms is a low impedance.  My 84dB SPL speakers run at 9 o'clock on the volume dial.  I do appreciate that my amplifier is not a huge current monster and I have to run it accordingly.   My seating position was 4 metres.  With the relocation to the new home it is in between 1 and 2 metres.  Hence the inverse square law of 1 to 4 watts nominally.  With a 70 watt amplifier this is still not enough head room for a 20 dB Classical music CD.  It suffices for a 12 dB for Jazz, POP and rock.

Warm regards,

Paul.

Gigantor, I'd be interested to know how you're doing the calculation, particularly as the Celestion SL6i are actually quite a difficult load.

Gigantor posted:

Newb question.  What does PRaT stand for please?

More closer emphasis on the leading edge of a notes shape.     Cloth eared flat earthers have trouble discerning a notes full shaped envelope....

Sorry, I misheard, what was that about "otes".  

Dear Huge,

Please give me something to work with.  I have two excel spreadsheets that you might be interested in.

Yes the Celestion's are a difficult load and I do not drive them hard.  9o'clock on the amplifier equates to about 84 dB SPL.  If I am allowed to do turn it up a little bit, I might go to 10'o'clock on the volume dial.  Though not too much.  In all honesty I will have to purchase more efficient loud speakers.  Something around 90 dB SPL, Sonus Faber.

If you can supply me with an email address I will email two excel spreadsheets which are self explanatory.

Warm regards,

Paul.

A cheap solution would be to change speakers for some old JBL studio monitors with 10 or 12 inch alnico magnets paper cone woofers. That would provide the realism that loud rock guitar and heavy drum demand.

Yeah, that would be my other recommendation. If providing suitable power for the DA 160 proves to be a financial improbability, lower demand speakers with an affordable integrated seems to be the route. Then again, if you've struck gold with the 160 as a great match to your room's acoustics, there are more affordable high-powered integrateds with class D or class G amplification that might work. Linn and Arcam for example.

I've never heard class G amplification, but as for class D Naim users get it from the Muso and Qb, and we all get it everyday from our car audio systems. The class D amplification I've heard from Linn and Devialet is excellent with no lack of slam, still it left me somewhat clinical and dry. Quality class A/B definitively adds the final degree of warmth, reality, and involvement that merits its cost.

GIGANTOR- What does your spreadsheet say for listening at 94-100db?

JOERAND- I think you're quite right when you suggest that the preamp in my Hegel H160 is simply not pulling me in. I’m quite bored to tears, in fact. My source is a newly acquired CD5 XS and I suspect I’m not getting its best from it. After listening a lot since making this post my thought is that if the character of the music is right, then gain can perhaps become a secondary consideration.  In any case, if we go by published specs and examine things from a dBW power rating perspective, there’s no reason the Hegel should not take control of a pair of Focus 160s:

log(150)(watts into 8 ohms) * 10 = 21.76dBW

log(250)(watts into 4 ohms) * 10 - 3 = 20.98dBW

21.76dBW - 20.98dBW = .78db => less than 1dB!

It seems stable enough into 4 ohms.

However, it’s always said that published specs must be taken with salt. The Supernait 2 is rated at only 80w into 8 ohms and 135w into 4 ohms, and yet, have you SEEN the size of the transformer in the Supernait 2? It’s as big as a Morris Mini tire! If that doesn’t have slam, what does? Some amp manufacturers seem keen on demonstrating an ability to exactly double the power output into 4 ohms, but Naim charmingly doesn't care about this. I will have to go in and listen to the SN2. I hope it will suffice as I like the Naim sound, but going for the separates might be a bridge too far. 

I neglected to mention that IMO the Hegel is fatiguing to listen to, and isn’t it interesting how this can change one’s perception of things like soundstage, dynamic range, and, even gain. In my observation, they all collapse. The word ‘nasal’ comes to mind.

Dear Echobase,

I require a few more things from you.

1. Speaker dB SPL

2. Listening distance from speaker

3.  Required SPL at desired seating position.  From reading you post I read this o be 94 to 100 dB SPL.

4.  I take it is a read that you like rock.  Hence 14 dB head room.

Is this correct please?

Kind regards,

Paul.