Router v n-Serve.

dave marshall posted:

I've recently upgraded to fibre broadband, and now find that n-Serve, which I use to control my HDX, acting as a ripper / streamer to my NDS, no longer sees any of my music.

It's all viewable via the front screen on the HDX, but no information appears on the n-Serve app. (I'm using n-Serve, rather than the Naim app, since the HDX is directly connected via TOSLink to the NDS).

I've been in touch with Phil Harris, who reckons that the problem lies with the new router and it's DCHP protocols, which are not communicating with the HDX.

I tried re-installing the old router, but of course, it will no longer connect with the internet, now that I'm on fibre.

My limited knowledge of all things networking means that I'm not too comfortable with the idea of messing with the router settings,(assuming that I even knew how to start),  without some basic advice from folks on here, so any help would be appreciated.

Otherwise, It might be the safest option to consult with a local networking boffin to resolve the issue.

May i ask you why you don’t use the ethernet mode, using the naim app, nds as player and hdx as nas, both connected with lan cable to a same switch ?    it is usually the best connection for sound quality.   I am using my nds/ unitserve / linear ps in that way.

Let's just say, ahem, that the HDX went off piste for new hard drives, with the result that UPnP server seems no longer to be available.

I assume that you did shut down and restart your HDX after your new router was installed?

Also did you have your HDX set for a fixed IP? It's very likely that your new router has a different IP address range to your old one and if your HDX has a fixed IP address it may be fixed to the wrong sub-net. That would explain why it works in sp/dif mode but you can't see it on an app. This is a good reason to leave everything on automatically getting an IP address from the router by DHCP.

I think you can see your HDX ip addresses (it has two) using the remote control and front panel display. If you plug your NDS into the ethernet too, then you can use the Nsim app to see what the IP address of it is, or use a free app like Fing. It will be something like 

192.168.x.y

y will always be different but x should always be the same, usually 0 or 1.

best

David

Ahaaaa, that HDX, I remember now! 

David Hendon posted:

I assume that you did shut down and restart your HDX after your new router was installed?

Also did you have your HDX set for a fixed IP? It's very likely that your new router has a different IP address range to your old one and if your HDX has a fixed IP address it may be fixed to the wrong sub-net. That would explain why it works in sp/dif mode but you can't see it on an app. This is a good reason to leave everything on automatically getting an IP address from the router by DHCP.

I think you can see your HDX ip addresses (it has two) using the remote control and front panel display. If you plug your NDS into the ethernet too, then you can use the Nsim app to see what the IP address of it is, or use a free app like Fing. It will be something like 

192.168.x.y

y will always be different but x should always be the same, usually 0 or 1.

best

David

Hi David,

Using NetAnalyser:

The new router shows as 192.168.1.1

NDS as 192.168.11

HDX as 192.168.1.20

HDX front panel as 192.168.1.10

So, each bit of kit does seem to have it's own address, and, from memory, the new router is showing the same address as it's predecessor, though I don't know whether that is significant.

As I mentioned, Phil Harris seemed to think the problem was the new router's DCHP ............ whatever that means. 

ChrisSU posted:

Ahaaaa, that HDX, I remember now! 

The NDS is 192.168.1.11 presumably?

Assuming it is, then the three IP addresses are in the same sub-net and the router has, despite Phil's concerns, assigned the ip addresses to the Naim kit.

Using Net Analyzer, what is the IP address assigned to the device you are running n-serve on?

best

David

David Hendon posted:

The NDS is 192.168.1.11 presumably?

best

David

Yes, sorry for that "oops" moment.

See my edit..

Also can you see the NDS with your Naim app? If so, can you select upnp on the NDS and then browse albums etc? Can you play an album that way?

best

David

I suspect that you just have to tell your n-serve app to connect to the HDX. I forget exactly how you do that and it depends on whether it's an iPhone or iPad but it's not hard to work out.

best

David

Hi David,

My iPad, with both n-Serve and the Naim app installed is shown as 192.168.1.15, and my iPhone as 192.168.1.19, so both devices are present on my network.

The NDS shows up on the Naim app, but, as I mentioned, I'm having to use n-Serve to control the HDX, using a direct connection, via TOSLink, between the HDX and NDS, since UPnP servers are not available (see my reply above).

Things were fine until the new fibre router appeared, since which time, the n-Serve app shows no information on the right hand side of any of the screens. Further, on the desktop client for Mac, on my laptop, n-Serve won't connect to the HDX either.

It would seem that the new router is the source of the problem, as Phil suggests, specifically DCHP incompatibility, but I'm not savvy enough to start changing router settings without sound advice, in case the whole thing stops working.

dave marshall posted:

Hi David,

My iPad, with both n-Serve and the Naim app installed is shown as 192.168.1.15, and my iPhone as 192.168.1.19, so both devices are present on my network.

The NDS shows up on the Naim app, but, as I mentioned, I'm having to use n-Serve to control the HDX, using a direct connection, via TOSLink, between the HDX and NDS, since UPnP servers are not available (see my reply above).

Things were fine until the new fibre router appeared, since which time, the n-Serve app shows no information on the right hand side of any of the screens. Further, on the desktop client for Mac, on my laptop, n-Serve won't connect to the HDX either.

It would seem that the new router is the source of the problem, as Phil suggests, specifically DCHP incompatibility, but I'm not savvy enough to start changing router settings without sound advice, in case the whole thing stops working.

dave marshall posted:

Let's just say, ahem, that the HDX went off piste for new hard drives, with the result that UPnP server seems no longer to be available.

Ah I missed the second quoted bit first time round. And you had this upnp server not being available with your old router? I think a prior question is what is wrong with your HDX's configuration that meant it worked with your old router until it went for repair and didn't after it got back from repair.

Apart from that your new router is handling DHCP just fine, but there may be another configuration setting that needs altering. What is the make of router? Perhaps one of the Forum's networking experts can advise you.

best

David

Yes, I'm in discussion with Phil about the repair, and we're agreed that the software was probably not copied correctly.

However, I was quite happy to use the TOSLink connection, and my previous router, which then meant I had to use n-Serve on my iPad for control, rather than the Naim app.

The new router, from my isp, is from Sagemcom, and I've now worked out how to get into it's configuration setup ............... but I'm not about to change any settings until I know what I'm doing. 

I am just surprised by your choice of set up, because when you use the n serve with nds, you use only the dac section of the nds and loose the benefit of the streaming section.

Nds , used as player in upnp, is normally better than hdx/nds in spdif.    I suppose you prefer the contrary, which is surprising .

Presumably you are with Plusnet then? Their forum seems to be full of people complaining about their Sagemcom router stopping things working so maybe you should talk to Plusnet's help line.

Also it's a fibre modem/router apparently so you could look at putting it into fibre modem only mode and add a new router made by one of the better suppliers.

best

David

French Rooster posted:

I am just surprised by your choice of set up, because when you use the n serve with nds, you use only the dac section of the nds and loose the benefit of the streaming section.

Nds , used as player in upnp, is normally better than hdx/nds in spdif.    I suppose you prefer the contrary, which is surprising .

If you read the whole thread (!) you will see he uses it like that because upnp doesn't work since his HDX was serviced, separately from the problem with his new router.

best

David

Assuming I place the router into fibre modem only mode, can I then rely on my AirPort Extreme, currently hooked into the router to provide a connection to the HDX?

My lan is hard wired from the router to a Cisco switch in the music room at the rear of the house, and I could move the ethernet cable to the Airport.

I'm with TalkTalk, but from what you say, the Sagemcom router would seem to be the problem.

Dave

Presumably your AirPort Extreme is currently set as a wireless access point rather than as a router, but if you reconfigured it as a router then you could indeed wire it back to your fibre modem and use the wifi and the ethernet sockets on the back of the AirPort Extreme to do the routing for you. So then you could plug your NDS and your HDX into those ethernet sockets or use a separate switch and wire that back to the AirPort Extreme.

You can change the AirPort Extreme function using the AirPort utility for IOS on your iPad or iPhone.

best

David

Hi David,

Heading out shortly for the Ingerland footyfest on a giant screen later on.

Thanks for all your help with this, and I'll have a bash at moving the AirPort Extreme into router mode, with the Sagemcom in fibre mode, and see if things sort themselves out .................... making careful notes of the current settings of course, ................ just in case. 

David Hendon posted:

French Rooster posted:

I am just surprised by your choice of set up, because when you use the n serve with nds, you use only the dac section of the nds and loose the benefit of the streaming section.

Nds , used as player in upnp, is normally better than hdx/nds in spdif.    I suppose you prefer the contrary, which is surprising .

If you read the whole thread (!) you will see he uses it like that because upnp doesn't work since his HDX was serviced, separately from the problem with his new router.

best

David

Thanks David, i haven’t read enough precisely....best  Pierre

dave marshall posted:

David Hendon posted:

I assume that you did shut down and restart your HDX after your new router was installed?

Also did you have your HDX set for a fixed IP? It's very likely that your new router has a different IP address range to your old one and if your HDX has a fixed IP address it may be fixed to the wrong sub-net. That would explain why it works in sp/dif mode but you can't see it on an app. This is a good reason to leave everything on automatically getting an IP address from the router by DHCP.

I think you can see your HDX ip addresses (it has two) using the remote control and front panel display. If you plug your NDS into the ethernet too, then you can use the Nsim app to see what the IP address of it is, or use a free app like Fing. It will be something like 

192.168.x.y

y will always be different but x should always be the same, usually 0 or 1.

best

David

Hi David,

Using NetAnalyser:

The new router shows as 192.168.1.1

NDS as 192.168.11

HDX as 192.168.1.20

HDX front panel as 192.168.1.10

So, each bit of kit does seem to have it's own address, and, from memory, the new router is showing the same address as it's predecessor, though I don't know whether that is significant.

As I mentioned, Phil Harris seemed to think the problem was the new router's DCHP ............ whatever that means. 

Therefore your router / HDX DHCP interoperability is fine assuming it’s using DHCP  .. otherwise it would have an IP address possibly starting with 169.254.x.x. Do however check everything is using dhcp... 

if the Naim app can’t see the HDX UPnP then I suggest there is an app issue with SSDP. Look on your new router to see if there is something called ‘IGMP snooping’ on your Wifi access point.. and try disabling.... otherwise you might need to try a different Wifi access point.. again check IGMP snooping is disabled.

lint and plug into your switchport on your broadband router... it’s sounds like a Naim SSDP interoperability issue with your router.

Just some background info that might (or might not) help  ................   I have the BT HH6 'Smarthub' & it too is made by Sagemcom,   It has very few user selectable features - significantly less than its predecessor HH5 - I guess its ability to not need customer inputs is why its called 'Smart'     The customer selection features it does have are:   Deselect wireless auto allowing user to fix the wireless channel(s) & to split the 2.4 & 5GHz bands.  It enables on/off with its 'Smart Setup' feature,  on/off with WPS,  & to select one of three wireless modes that help with devices that struggle to use the latest wireless features,  this is bit vague as it does say what it actually does,  maybe it this does something related to IGMP snooping,  but I just use the factory default mode.    I understand. like all BT hubs before it & made by a number of other OEM's,  it has no access for switching IGMP snooping.  I've never had issues with it anyway & understand that with a basic network switch it disables IGMP snooping anyhow.

I'm sure you've heard this before, but with an NDS and the network hardware you have, I'd bin the HDX, buy a 300GBP nas, run Asset or MinimServer, and be done with it.

Using a 'not quite right' HDX is really confounding things for you.  But when it's the "devil you know" I totally understand.

Hi Mike I don’t believe the HH6 has a setting for IGMP snooping ... as BT use multicast for IPTV, it doesn’t surprise me it’s a feature they don’t want consumers playing with, so I assume if indeed it is used it works fine.. as indeed it should. Although the routers might be made by or use chipsets from  Sagemcom, the software and some of the firmware is designed by BT to meet the Telco’s specific requirements and so I would expect implementations and different products made by Sagemcom to behave potentially quite differently.

if Dave can say the exact model and vendor of the router it might help to narrow it down