Super Lumina, 202, 200, CDX2 and XPS2

Hi there, the obvious advice is go and see a good dealer and have a listen, should be able to get a home demo. 

However, my experience was I acquired the super lumina source to pre (second hand) and coming from a hi line I was super impressed to the point where when  I “tripped over” the speaker cable to replace my naca5 on the used market I had to go for it....All  I can say is  wow, massive transformation.... the pre to source is excellent in my system.

I think the perceived wisdom is get the SL pre to source first, speak cable second and then complete the loom with pre to power last. 

If you do your due diligence work you could pick up both on the used market for an ok price. 

Thanks 

Gary

My humble two penneth would be a good rack (if not already owned) - Fraimlite or SVT for example, maybe a Powerline and then a nice bottle of Malt & some new CDs. Enjoy the well balanced system you have. 

Hi Mike,

In my experience, the 282 would not imbalance your system at all as you already have a nicely evolved CD player, particularly with the XPS.    In our market, many Naim fans don't have the room for as many boxes as some of the more advanced Naim systems introduce.    I really like the 282 when paired with a NAP 200.    So, at risk of complicating your search, I would encourage you to seek out the chance to hear these two pre-amps in a direct comparison, either at your dealers, or in your system.  

Good listening,

Bruce

Mike,

I think you're right to worry about keeping the balance of a well assembled system like your own.

When I moved from a Hiline to Superlumina, it wasn't a trouble free move, as I felt the extra definition highlighted some of the brightness my system tended towards. My personal decision was to live with the negative element to keep the positives, but your sensitivity to the "glassiness" of the 282 may mean you'd make a different decision.

Have you considered DR'ing your power supplies? 

I wouldn't recommend doing this without first auditioning what the DR versions bring to your system, but the costs involved are less than Superlumina cables, and do make an appreciable difference,

Paul

bdnyc posted:

Hi Mike,

In my experience, the 282 would not imbalance your system at all as you already have a nicely evolved CD player, particularly with the XPS.    In our market, many Naim fans don't have the room for as many boxes as some of the more advanced Naim systems introduce.    I really like the 282 when paired with a NAP 200.    So, at risk of complicating your search, I would encourage you to seek out the chance to hear these two pre-amps in a direct comparison, either at your dealers, or in your system.  

Good listening,

Bruce

 

 

 

 

Agree with Bruce.

I don't find the 282 glassy at all.

I think it goes really well with the 200 and will provide a much better upgrade than a swanky cable.

Ray

When is system is well balanced end-to-end, the logical thing to do is not let the money burn a hole in your pocket and just enjoy it as is. 

Invariable, any change that makes you then feel other components are holding things back leads to another change and so on until the whole lot is swapped out. If that is not a road you want to embark on, then I'd be inclined to do as others have suggested and take care of any left over details like racking and if there are none, simply buy music instead.

While there are those that advocate the use of SL on any level of gear, I still think the cost of cables needs to be somewhat proportional to the cost of the electronics. If you can borrow it, you can judge for yourself. If not, you will just have to make up your own mind what you believe on the topic. I'd not go there personally short of a 252/300 but others would say I'm wrong and who am I to argue.

I understand that no streamer has seduced you as yet. As you have an XPS already, have you considered trying a NDX2+XPS to see how you get on? That unit would be about the cost of going SL full loom.

Well if you don’t think the 282 would be an upgrade (and it is a different presentation) I guess you could fine tune the system by home trialling some different wires but if not in my opinion a “balanced system” is the ultimate end game so get more music.  

Regards,

Lindsay

Mike Hughes posted:

My system is beautifully balanced and I’ve yet to hear a streamer to persuade me away from CD. I also don’t see me unbalancing the system with a 282 or 300. I dislike the glassiness of the former and although I think the 300 is great I won’t have the cash in the near future to balance the system out with a suitable pre or source. 

So, box upgrades are out unless the CDX2 gives out after 16 mostly great years. What then are the merits of moving from a Hi-Line interconnect to a Super Lumina or would replacing the A5 be better option, bearing in mind I can’t afford to do both. 

IMO using (silly) cable money in above setup is near crazy, when you can get Witchhat Phantom or perhaps s/h Tellurium at a fraction of SL price, leaving room for a CDS3 headunit.

The latter will be a major box upgrade, perhaps let Hiline stay.

A good rack, support etc is essentiel too, as you might allready know.

Guess you allready have Napsc ?

The OP has a Hutter rack and Nap SC.  CDS3 is a good idea.   

CDS3 good point, especially since the OP already has an XPS2. Might be a very cheap upgrade. But - I don't own any of these 2 - I've read that they are quite different so it is not sure the OP likes the CDS3 over the CDX2.

Mike Hughes posted:

My system is beautifully balanced and I’ve yet to hear a streamer to persuade me away from CD. I also don’t see me unbalancing the system with a 282 or 300. I dislike the glassiness of the former and although I think the 300 is great I won’t have the cash in the near future to balance the system out with a suitable pre or source. 

So, box upgrades are out unless the CDX2 gives out after 16 mostly great years. What then are the merits of moving from a Hi-Line interconnect to a Super Lumina or would replacing the A5 be better option, bearing in mind I can’t afford to do both. 

Mike agree with you on the balance of the 202,HC,200 - i would not discount a 282 - worked really well with my 200 and really improves the detail

another thought is to trade in 200 and get a 200DR? could be similar ££££ to SL?

Antony - Mike has a HC so would get no benefit from a 200DR. 

I would go for 282 too.  282/200/cdx2/xps is better balanced than 202/200 with same source.

The 202 is limiting the musicality of the cdx2/ xps2.   I had all these components already before.    The 282 will open the sound and give more body and separation of instruments.  The music will flow with more ease too.    I always found that the preamp is the most critical component in the chain.

My life is wonderful what should I change?

Frequently guilty of this myself, personally I’d put my money in a sinking fund if I had a 16 year old CDP. 

I did try a SL between my DAC and 552 and to be honest was delighted when the True Signal cable at 25% of the price bettered it (in my system, my ears, my room etc.) as an interconnect costing the same as the DAC didn’t sit easily with my psyche. 

.sjb

I can vouch for TRue Signal cables being great cables for the money, well worth an audition.

Gazza posted:

I can vouch for TRue Signal cables being great cables for the money, well worth an audition.

Seems their web site security certificate has been revoked and Signals' link to their products doesn't work either, have they flown by night?

I just looked them up on my iPad no problem. SIgnals the hifi dealer at Felixstowe stocks them if you live nearby.

I too would be a little worried about the CDP and, if funds are limited, be putting something away for a replacement/refurb.

Sorry to muddy the waters, I too had a 202/HC/200 and chose to upgrade to a 250DR … but then that is my system with its mullet speakers! I have never regretted my decision - just a little bit more of everything I had before. So good I have no current desire to upgrade the pre or the Highline or the source or the cables … well just now anyway

Allan

Mike, I think most people would prefer a 282 over 202 in your system. But we all hear things differently.

If you have not heard a 555ps with your cdx2, it is well worth hearing. Also, I’m quite convince I would like what SL IC does to your cdp, but you realy need to audition. Regarding speaker cables I have not heard many I prefer to A5 with naim amps, SL and Chord Epic Reference are two.

Ps, I had a look at your profile, I see you use a powerigel, but the nap use a power line. In my system I prefer the balance by using the igel for all (and my one PL gets no use). 

Apologies for the slight delay in coming back to you. Most amused to read your answers thus far. In no particular order then:

Powerline - got one on the 200. Adding more didn’t benefit/unbalanced/exposed the system so has been left well alone.

CDS3 - yes I’ve heard it on multiple occasions. Tonality better than my original CDX2 but even with a 555PS it doesn’t do PRAT like the CDX2 and would trigger a need for upgrades across the system that I can neither afford nor desire.

555Ps - auditioned with the CDX2. Exposed the weaknesses of the latter. 

282 - I’ve commented on here before that I’ve auditioned the in shop and at home. Does more of everything so I can see the attraction but it’s really the Naim orphan box as it’s not an end point for anyone. Everyone upgrades from it and there’s a reason for that. At this point there have always been howls. It’s always amusing to go back and see that most come from people who no longer own a 282 but deny that it was why they upgraded. The small number who say “I’ve had mine for x years now and don’t see myself upgrading”? Well last time I contributed my view around 3 people maintained that they could never see themselves moving from a 282 whatevs. Catching up with their systems now... every one of them moved on. 1 of them went back to a 202. The third perspective pops up here again. People who like the 282 with whatevs but, funnily enough, either never owned it or no longer do.

So... no. It’s a cable upgrade or it’s not. I’m really comfortable with “it’s not” but there’s an anount of money available that isn’t box sized but which might be cable sized, it won’t be Tellerium. Had many recommedatioms and had the oppprtunity to audition through a family friend. Neutral in the dullest sense. A little more detail. A little less fun. That’s my concern with SL interconnect. The HL improves on the base cable but only by taking stuff away and it’s a PITA to maintain in good health. Already had one break replaced.

Should also say I’ve a lovely dealer but he’s 50 miles away and I doubt he’d have an original CDX2 etc. to test this out. He may loan the cable but I’m not going to ask unless there’s evidence it might be worth it.

Essentially what you’re all saying is that nobody has in fact heard SL with an original CDX2 or a 202/200

Ah well. Was worth the ask. 

Mike - I must correct you.  We do not all seek to upgrade from the 282. 

another big fan of the 282 and still very much at the heart of my system prevoiusly owned 202 & 252 - the 252 did not like the 200 at all

my 282 is with a single HCDR, may look at SC in future

I had the same system for a few years CDX2,XPS (non DR), 202. HCDR, 200 - powerline on 200 but i used Cord Oydessey speaker cable and still do so no did not try SL but when I added the 282 the whole system improved over the 202

sold the CDX2 & XPS and moved to NDX with then 202,HCDR, 200 and following that added in 282

i had the 202/200 then 282/ hicap / 200 then 282/hicap / 250 and 252/250 then ear 912/250 and today ear 912/300dr.  The biggest upgrades for sound quality were the preamps.  

I own a 282 with a Hicap DR, and it is my end game preamp as far as I am concerned.

I also own a 202, but it's not really a hi-end preamp, it is musical, but lacks the soundstage ability of the 282 (even with a Hicap DR, it still sounds quite 2 dimensional and lacks depth), also sounds congested in direct comparison....

The limitations of a 202 become very apparent when paired with a NAP 250.

I've heard 252 and 552 many times, but I'm very happy with my 282.

I think @Chris Bell heard Superlumina with a NAP 200 and has positive feedback about it.