Super Lumina, 202, 200, CDX2 and XPS2

I've added a Hugo as an alternate source to my Naim cd player and love it.  It fits nicely with the Naim sound and if you're in the mood for the Naim presentation it's still available.  I wouldn't be surprised if you started playing many of your neglected recordings again.

Hi Mike,

I am aware that you dislike the 282 from our previous exchanges last year. If I were you, I would consider doing computer audio as a supplement to your CDX2. You can just add a good DAC to an existing laptop and compare the sound presentation with your CDX2. I'm not sure about your previous experiences with streamers that didn't impress you too much.

With the Superlumina, you could audition it with your 202/200 and see if it works out for you. Personally I wouldn't be inclined to consider the Superlumina for this level of gear as it's an unbalanced allocation of funds, in my opinion. However, people are free to do whatever they like with regards to system matching so I wouldn't be surprised if there are 202/200 owners who are using Superlumina in their 202/200 systems.

FWIW I don't see myself moving from the 282/250 as it's my end game system. The 202/200 also sounds good, better with the Hicap DR. If you haven't tried the Hicap DR it might be worth to give it a go.  Your experience of preferring the sound quality of the 202 (over 282) suggests that price doesn't always correlate with sound quality. To my ears, the 202 although flatter sounding is more neutral/balanced. The 282 is more dynamic with a forceful presentation, more coloured. As such, I'm not surprised that some may find the 282 to be "too much", thus preferring the more balanced/flatter/duller presentation of the 202.

Allan-  my "mullet" system is very similiar to yours,except spkrs. are harbeth 30.1. TT is older lp12 /lingo2 naim prefix,kore,ekos,krystal,and cd5. It works for me. Also went from200 to 250 dr.

I think it's important not to get a particular, and in this case inaccurate idea stuck in the mind.

the 82, and 282 are not the orphan of Naim preamps, in fact it's the end game for many Naim owners around the world.

also I've heard myself my own Naim systems behave different according to the environment in my own home, if I run my TV decoder into my Naim preamp through analog inputs, the performance takes on a glassy quality on my 202 and dynamics are diminished.

so I don't know what environment the OP heard a 282, which source, which speakers, which cable, which environment, but to blame the 282 for a glassy quality, when I can never hear this from my own 282 is I think generalising.

I could have lived with my 202 in ignorance after all it's a musical and fun preamp, but once I had heard Klimax level Linn preamp and 500 series Naim systems, the 282 has the qualities of those hi-end preamps, and the 282 allows me to stay happy. We all wish for a lot of material things in life, but I think for a price to performance ratio, 282/250 is a good dose of the top Naim performance (552/500 and 252/300) but at still somewhat aspirational prices rather than Mercedes/BMW money prices.

Now this logic of nobody stays with a 282, well, I know that lots of forum members passed over the 202 right away, and went for 282 or 252 systems.

The 282 does expose the source though, so that might be an issue. I wouldn't pair a 282 with anything less than NDS/XPSDR (I can't comment on NDX2 since I never heard it)

I think keeping an open mind is important.... and a good relationship with a dealer, it's very easy to hear what a 282/250 DR does above a 202/200 provided it has the right source.

Anyway I'm not sure that a Superlumina speaker cable is a good allocation of funds on a 202/200, but also at the same time, why not? 

And the Superlumina DIN/DIN is a LOT better than a Hi-line. But only by audition will the OP know if it's right for him

So, literally one person who might have tried it, but who has yet to post, and everyone else with a view but largely about a 282 or sources despite my original post. Not sure two posters saying the 282 is their end game says much. Let’s see where they are a few years down the line

To answer a few further posts then, I’m not aspiring to a “high end” pre amp. Give me all the detail you want. I want my toes to tap; my fingers to click and a huge range of music to work well. The system is well balanced and musical. I’m looking to see if anyone has specific experience of one explicit scenario. 

I have heard the 282 at three different dealers and at two of them it was paired with a 200, 250 and 300 as part of Naim themselves running dems. In one instance the source was a a CDX2 then CDS3. At the other it was a run through the various streamer options. Same outcome every time. Yes the soundstage improved (if that really matters to you). Yes, there’s greater definition around instruments. However, even switching between Naim, Neat, Focal the outcome was the same. A clarity and depth obtained at the cost of a certain digital glassiness. Just to be clear I’ve also heard it in two different homes. After extended listening, same outcome. Is that “generalising” in comparison to the one box in one system? You tell me.

As for sources, I’m a techy and computer audio done properly can offer some of what a decent system can do but at about 10% of the user friendly experience. It’s by and large a bodge put together by people keen to stretch the limits but with no eye on that user-friendly element. I’ve heard the full range of Naim streamers but disagree with Naim as to where they compare to the CD players. The NDX for example falls well below a CDX2. The NDS was musical but I’m not in that financial league so it’s irrelevant. I’ve also heard Linn, Devialet and others. Right now the CDX2/XPS2 ticks along nicely and I’ve not been inspired. 

Not sure there’s much else to be said. We have different ears and views and I was asking only about one cable option given the money I have. 

chord signature tuned array are a good option too. I am very pleased with mine.  

Indeed there's not much more to be said. I've heard 252 and 552 based systems and I'm not going to spend my limited cash go those particularly when I've heard a 282 and 552 side by side in the same system. Yes the 552 is better in terms of finer resolution... but the 282 is footing tapping musical fun for me. 

Anyway - the truth is, I doubt anyone on this forum is going to advice you to buy a Superlumina speaker cable that costs 2000 GBP on a 202/200. Or a SL DIN interconnect either that costs 1800 GBP.

the 202/200 simply isn't up to it.

absolutely agree, the superlumina was made first to pair statement amps.  With 202/200, the system would be unbalanced and completely illogical vs the thoughts of the op:  keep the system balanced and not focus on just details, bass or soundstage improvements.

For me a source like cdx2 /xps2 deserves more than 202/200.  The preamp is the weak link.

Imo forget SL for the moment. Hiline and Nac 5 easily good enough. You don’t need powerlines to make Naim sing like angels either Forget 282 and get yourself a serviced nac52/cds3-cds2 /lp...Important to have a good rack like a fraim or well setup Mana. Sorry I missed your speaker but if it’s fast that combo will be jawing dropply foot tapping good.

Any good order Naim preamp above 202 is special with all the pRated layered sound stage required. It will also remind you Naims been tops for a very very longtime. Good luck ???? 

Good to have fraim, but IMO fraim would be the last thing to upgrade, until you satisfy the number of black boxes you have. They’re not cheap

I have tried the SuperLumina interconnect in a 202/200/HiCapDR/NPASC system with excellent results over the HiLine. Source was DAC/XPSDR though. The SuperLumina stayed. Full loom is not possible (with the 200) but SL speaker cable will no doubt be added to that (friends) system soon.

Mike said..

Not sure there’s much else to be said. We have different ears and views and I was asking only about one cable option given the money I have. 

I/we were only trying to help/give the benefit of our own experiences especially those of us having owned 282 and 202.

But its your money and you seem determined to spunk away a couple of grand on cables, then crack on.

What a bizarre response TheBigFredC.

I asked for opinions on SL explicitly from people who had tried it in a system such as mine. That would be as opposed to just asking for opinions from people who hadn’t tried it and thus  whose opinion would be that it did/didn’t work and thus would be meaningless compared to those who had actually tried it. 

What I get is... pretty much opinions from people who feel that the most important thing I need to know is that they haven’t tried but are confident it wouldn’t work so I should do something else which actually would unbalance my system and be outside my current budget. So, er, not actually the experiences I asked for but something which wholly disregards the OP. 

It is indeed my money and I’m not “determined to spunk away” anything thanks. If I was so determined I’d have just placed an order rather than asked for views based on explicit experience. 

Thanks to CdBoy for actually reading the question and offering a ball park answer at least. Given the source it suggests he enjoys a smoother less PRaT oriented sound than myself but I’d be interested to hear more.

Mike:

This is a forum.  

You ask a question and you will get lots and lots of replies .. some of them may even be relevant to the question you ask.  The folks on this forum are very knowledgeable about the subject matter at hand and their replies are all focused on helping you achieve the aural nirvana you're looking for .. your "job" is to sift the replies and evaluate those that are relevant and helpful to your initial query .. 

Dissing people for providing input to your issue is non productive; input is helpful  whether or not you believe they address your specific issue .. there's always the chance someone will give you an idea or a solution you hadn't actually thought of ... 

Interesting is how the OP made his mind up about 282 only after hearing it after 3 times and that too not in his home.

ive lived with my 282 for a few years now and own a 202 for almost a decade

282 is a sweet sounding preamp....

but superlumina or indeed any other cable won’t and can’t turn a 202 into a 282

Anyway good luck to OP... nothing further be be said.

Although I agree that the 282 is not the upgrade from the 202 that many on this forum describe I do think it would be a more sensible upgrade than installing SL on a 202.

And if your system is so toe tappingly fantastic leave it well alone and buy lots of CD's with that SL cash. 

I first got SL cables when I had a 272 with XPSDR and 250DR, so a mid range setup similar to the OP’s. The advantage of the 272/250 is that you get to achieve the ‘full loom’ with only three wires - two for the speakers and a din to XLR. The cables somehow manage to let the speakers disappear, leaving just the music, which becomes more real and engaging. They also give a very very quiet background. I felt they were appropriate at this level of system and that they represent good value. 

A caveat though : I found that the effect of SL is additive and would suggest that a move to SL is best as part of a plan to build a full loom, which of course with a source and separate pre and power amp is both more complex and more expensive. I’d be hard pressed to say which of speaker wire or interconnect makes the biggest difference, and would probably advise all or none rather than one or another. 

Without wishing to cause any irritation to the OP, I’d suggest that upgrading both the XPS and Hicap to DR would have more of an impact than buying SL cables. It won’t unbalance the existing system, but will make a nicely balanced setup even better. 

HH the quiet background comes more from a source than wires.

a wire even superlumina doesn’t turn a CDX2 into a CD555

analogmusic posted:

Indeed there's not much more to be said. I've heard 252 and 552 based systems and I'm not going to spend my limited cash go those particularly when I've heard a 282 and 552 side by side in the same system. Yes the 552 is better in terms of finer resolution... but the 282 is footing tapping musical fun for me. 

Anyway - the truth is, I doubt anyone on this forum is going to advice you to buy a Superlumina speaker cable that costs 2000 GBP on a 202/200. Or a SL DIN interconnect either that costs 1800 GBP.

the 202/200 simply isn't up to it.

Isn't it?   Well I would normally advise a box or speaker upgrade over wires - indeed I think wires fine tune rather than reform a system - but there are circumstances where going the extra mile with cables could be ultimate icing on the cake.  Adding a SL DIN-XLR to a 272/250 is I understand a considerable step up and although haven't made the upgrade myself connecting Kudos S20s with Chord Sarum is very much worth a listen.

Many ways to skin the cat!!!!!

Regards,

Lindsay

analogmusic posted:

Interesting is how the OP made his mind up about 282 only after hearing it after 3 times and that too not in his home.

ive lived with my 282 for a few years now and own a 202 for almost a decade

282 is a sweet sounding preamp....

but superlumina or indeed any other cable won’t and can’t turn a 202 into a 282

Anyway good luck to OP... nothing further be be said.

 

Sigh. That would be three different scenarios NOT three times. 

At a push I would say I’ve had approximately 100 hours listening time in those contexts. Will that do or is there some wider point you wish to make?

Mike, with a bit of humor, but no offense, perhaps you would even preferred 112/150 combo with lavender interconnects ?  improvement in the direction of less details, less opened soundstage, more restricted bass and less transparency and thinner sound.

My HicapDR definitely sounds better with the Naim power line. 

analogmusic posted:

... nothing further be be said.

 

if only....................

.sjb