Am I Mad

Mad buying Sopra, Yes !

Perhaps upgrade source

Sounds like you need to compare them to your 400s at home, at the very least.

boom posted:

Ok, i’m Currently thinking of upgrading my S400 to Sopra 2, I’ve always wanted more punch out of my system and I think the S400s might be the issue. Don’t get me wrong, I have really enjoy what the S400’s can do, it’s when I play rock or some up front music, sometime they lack punch.

im now sitting at ndx-xpsdr-282-250dr-scdr and don’t want to go any further up the chain. Is Sopra 2 overtop for my system. I had an audition with 1028s, Kanta and Sopra2 with the latter being the clear winner, so it should be for the extra $$. The scary thing was when I got home to do the same demo on my S400s, they didn’t sound that bad at the same listening level, I was expecting them to sound broken but they didn’t.

Is there another speaker I should consider? And is $20k on my level over the top?

 

thanks

Boom

cheaper Focal's offer the same punch and furthermore they in general sound more open and fresh than the S400.

Old JBL or NS1000 punches

As per usual a home dem is required. I did the same when I went from S600s to Sopra 2s. Lots of factors at play here including your listening room, placement, furnishings etc. So do rely on your own ears. Focals draw a mixed reception on this Forum as did my Ovators - but in the right environment and the right electronics they’re sublime - at least to these ears

I’d try a NAP300 first. My speakers are not a difficult load but the 300 transformed them into something much more dynamic and which sounded much larger than when driven by a 250. 

Same as HH here, a NAP300DR did wonders for my Spendor SP2s (and a 555DR did similar wonders for my 272 [and the whole system]).

But you need to audition each of the options rather than decide on theoretical considerations.

Boom,I must agree with Huge and HH I ran the same electronics as yourself but with a 252 instead of a 282 changing from a 250dr to a 300dr was probably the best upgrade I have ever made the difference is quite staggering as always a home audition is a must.

I've heard the Sopra 2s fronted by a very similar system.  I liked them very much but they stepped up hugely when the 250DR was swopped for a 300DR. So like a few others on this thread I'd be inclined to explore the 300DR first.

I too would go for the 300dr first. It works so well with 282.

I concur with Mike.I was at a dem when a 250 DR was swapped for a 300 Dr on the end of Sopra 2's with SL loom and thought the sound really opened out more ,with more of everything.Funny enough the 500 DR which followed the 300DR I thought the improvement wasn't so marked as the 250 DR to 300 DR.Focal Sopra 2's are brilliant speakers in my opinion.

I’m not in all the Naim speakers are rubbish camp - far from it - but I once had an extensive demo of the 400s. However,  they were positioned on the back of a 282/250 they were truly awful.  Whether the Sopra 2s is the right move for the OP is of course down to a host of factors.  But I’ve heard them on the back of a Supernait 2 and they were fine. 

Regards,

Lindsay

Are you mad? Well I suspect we all are here by most people’s understanding...

Spent more than the average person’s salary on HiFi - Mad...

Spend ages discussing whether a particular Ethernet cable sounds better or worse - Mad...

Worried over whether your FLACs sound worse than your WAVs - Mad...

So, you are at least amongst friends. Regarding your question, the complex interactions between room, speakers and amp are almost impossible to predict, so if possible get a pair of Sopra 2s into your room and give them a try. Swap the 250 for a 300 and listen again. Your ears are a far better judge than this forum.

Well I didn’t see that one coming - replace the 250 with the 300! Ahhhh, more boxes another rack....no room to put it, dam these third world problems

Some really good feedback thanks gents, all taken on board. I totally agree about home Demo, I just didn’t want to muck the dealer around if I wasn’t 100% that was the way for me to go. Some really good fat for me to chew on here.

Thnx

DaveBk posted:

Are you mad? Well I suspect we all are here by most people’s understanding...

Spent more than the average person’s salary on HiFi - Mad...

Spend ages discussing whether a particular Ethernet cable sounds better or worse - Mad...

Worried over whether your FLACs sound worse than your WAVs - Mad...

So, you are at least amongst friends. Regarding your question, the complex interactions between room, speakers and amp are almost impossible to predict, so if possible get a pair of Sopra 2s into your room and give them a try. Swap the 250 for a 300 and listen again. Your ears are a far better judge than this forum.

Haha, your absolutely right, in fact if the wife knew what I have spent on my system she would have sent me to the loony bin by now. Nice to know I’m amongst friends, if I do go to the nut house atleat I’ll be in good company.

boom posted:

I have really enjoy what the S400’s can do, it’s when I play rock or some up front music, sometime they lack punch.

I found the S-400 very musical, exemplary for bass, and easy to place in my room. I play primarily rock. As far as how we define "punch" - it's in the expectations of the listener. The 400 bass speed and punch was excellent in my room. OTOH, I found them too mids-forward (especially with vocals) and attributed this to their cross-over point. Too much expected from the outstanding clarity of the BMR unit. Vocals often came-off as if the singers lacked a diaphragm - no depth or grunt in their voices. Maybe a higher cross-over point that engaged the bass drivers more into the mids would have helped for me. Maybe the 400 are critically accurate and I like some color to my music replay.

The "punch" that I missed with the 400 was primarily heft in the vocals. I suppose this could also translate for some listeners into lack of transient weight on percussion - ergo want more punch. 

The suggestions of a bigger amp should help your 400 punch to some regard, but wouldn't this also play favorably to any other speaker? As you've said you don't want to go further up the chain for black boxes, seems the choice is really about the speakers. 

I don't think there is anything wrong with your Ovator S-400s. At least there isn't with mine

'Unfortunately' replacing NAP250DR with NAP300DR did wonders for the Ovators. So did the SuperLumina full loom.

joerand posted:

boom posted:

I have really enjoy what the S400’s can do, it’s when I play rock or some up front music, sometime they lack punch.

I found the S-400 very musical, exemplary for bass, and easy to place in my room. I play primarily rock. As far as how we define "punch" - it's in the expectations of the listener. The 400 bass speed and punch was excellent in my room. OTOH, I found them too mids-forward (especially with vocals) and attributed this to their cross-over point. Too much expected from the outstanding clarity of the BMR unit. Vocals often came-off as if the singers lacked a diaphragm - no depth or grunt in their voices. Maybe a higher cross-over point that engaged the bass drivers more into the mids would have helped for me. Maybe the 400 are critically accurate and I like some color to my music replay.

The "punch" that I missed with the 400 was primarily heft in the vocals. I suppose this could also translate for some listeners into lack of transient weight on percussion - ergo want more punch. 

The suggestions of a bigger amp should help your 400 punch to some regard, but wouldn't this also play favorably to any other speaker? As you've said you don't want to go further up the chain for black boxes, seems the choice is really about the speakers. 

Very interesting. I guess the room acoustics comes into play here.  For me it has been the lack of the kick drum on rock reply, base guitar has always been superb, sometimes lacking drive in eletronica reply. Some of this could well be quality of recording. I will go listen to a 300 out of curiosity, the 300 does bring racking issues hence why I disregarded it a while back. Luckily the dealer has a NDS in stock so will be nice to hear that for comparison to my NDX, somehow I don’t think it will sort out the bass I am looking for.

Adam Zielinski posted:

I don't think there is anything wrong with your Ovator S-400s. At least there isn't with mine

'Unfortunately' replacing NAP250DR with NAP300DR did wonders for the Ovators. So did the SuperLumina full loom.

 

Great to hear your loving you 400’s. Yes these unfortunate improvements are great for cleaning out our bank accounts!

How about Linn Isobarik .... a recon pair should sound excellent...

boom posted: I will go listen to a 300 out of curiosity, the 300 does bring racking issues hence why I disregarded it a while back. Luckily the dealer has a NDS in stock so will be nice to hear that for comparison to my NDX, somehow I don’t think it will sort out the bass I am looking for.

Seems like you have a logical plan of attack now. Good you are working with a dealer. Keep us posted on your findings. Fingers crossed changing boxes does the trick, much easier on the back than hauling speakers back and forth between your car, your room and the dealer's. Good luck!

Thanks Joerand,yes a bit of a plan of attack. All lined up from r this weekend demo, it’s going to be fun!

I have many times sorted perceived speaker bass issues by changing the source, or even the interconnect. Take some care and wake those S400s up. 

cdboy posted:

I have many times sorted perceived speaker bass issues by changing the source, or even the interconnect. Take some care and wake those S400s up. 

Thanks CDboy, will be fun trying anyhow......and expensive,

cdboy posted:

I have many times sorted perceived speaker bass issues by changing the source, or even the interconnect. Take some care and wake those S400s up. 

I would add the preamp to that list, too. Not everybody likes the 252, but it would slot into your system very easily as you already have a Supercap, so a demo might be simple enough.