Am I Mad

Boom you could go either way with your gear. The Sopra 2 can grow as you upgrade your pre-amp source etc. so don't be worried it's out of kilter with your other gear.

I also had the S400 , great speaker - however I also yearned for more slam/engagement with rock too. What they did very, very well though was a W I D E / wrap around soundstage, fast - very fast PraT, musical coherence, very easy to follow bass line with excellent bass definition. 

What they did not so well was mostly as decribed by JOERAND. With a forward/gratting nature in one  freq. band that just got too much in the end in my room & my system. They just did not extend very high in the treble either to me and my music preference they also seemed to be very rolled off on the very top freq. range or was light in output in that area. This is mostly in comparison to what I have now -  the ProAc D48R. Superb speakers and well worth checking out against the Sopra2.

Good Luck.

ChrisSU posted:

cdboy posted:

I have many times sorted perceived speaker bass issues by changing the source, or even the interconnect. Take some care and wake those S400s up. 

I would add the preamp to that list, too. Not everybody likes the 252, but it would slot into your system very easily as you already have a Supercap, so a demo might be simple enough. 

I’m sort of put off the 252 with all that I have read, it’s the bottom end I love with my music and i’m thinking the 252 will give me less of that. I know I will listen to one one day but I don’t thinks it’s for me right now.

I wouldn’t be put off with the 252, I’d try and listen to one. It has a wonderful natural (un forced)  sound with a strong and tightly rhythmic bottom end... which if anything appears a little enhanced. However if you want a preamp that excites audio more than it really is, the 252 won’t be for you... you go for a 252 for transparency. Sooo.. if your speakers are transparent and neutral, it works well... if your speakers need a little  waking up then sometimes the 252 can sound flat... as you need a bit of that extra fizz.

unlike some here I would always go for a NAC upgrade over a NAP upgrade.. unless there is a speaker amp compatibility/matching issue. The preamp is the heart of any system, ever more so with Naim. If you appreciate the realism and sheer musicality of recordings and listening into them, your NAC and sources are key... and in my experience you get best bang for your buck upgrading NAC first and then NAP...but then I use ATC speakers which are relatively dynamic, transparent and fast with well behaved impedance curves.

crackie posted:

Boom you could go either way with your gear. The Sopra 2 can grow as you upgrade your pre-amp source etc. so don't be worried it's out of kilter with your other gear.

I also had the S400 , great speaker - however I also yearned for more slam/engagement with rock too. What they did very, very well though was a W I D E / wrap around soundstage, fast - very fast PraT, musical coherence, very easy to follow bass line with excellent bass definition. 

What they did not so well was mostly as decribed by JOERAND. With a forward/gratting nature in one  freq. band that just got too much in the end in my room & my system. They just did not extend very high in the treble either to me and my music preference they also seemed to be very rolled off on the very top freq. range or was light in output in that area. This is mostly in comparison to what I have now -  the ProAc D48R. Superb speakers and well worth checking out against the Sopra2.

 

Good Luck.

Thanks Crackie, some great information and very accurate in your description on the 400, I totally agree.

I’ll check out the ProAc if I can Find them in then in dealers, have,t seen any to date so might be a dead end.

I did have a great demo today, base line, 272-555-250dr SLcable-Sopra2, that was as close as we could get to my system with what the dealer had in stock. 2nd NDS-555-272-250dr, 3rd swapped out the 250dr on the latter for a 300dr.

Each stage brought on improvements and of course the latter was superior, I really enjoyed what it did, however, it didn’t blow me away enough for me to think about pulling the trigger and drop some serious $$$ on black boxes......it did show me how good my system really is and I don’t think I’m missing out on too much by staying put....just some tweaking to do.

We did discuss a fraim rack, as My gear is sitting on a 20 year old Apollo, Its a difficult decision to make as not easy to demo..

Thanks for your input

B

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I wouldn’t be put off with the 252, I’d try and listen to one. It has a wonderful natural (un forced)  sound with a strong and tightly rhythmic bottom end... which if anything appears a little enhanced. However if you want a preamp that excites audio more than it really is, the 252 won’t be for you... you go for a 252 for transparency. Sooo.. if your speakers are transparent and neutral, it works well... if your speakers need a little  waking up then sometimes the 252 can sound flat... as you need a bit of that extra fizz.

unlike some here I would always go for a NAC upgrade over a NAP upgrade.. unless there is a speaker amp compatibility/matching issue. The preamp is the heart of any system, ever more so with Naim. If you appreciate the realism and sheer musicality of recordings and listening into them, your NAC and sources are key... and in my experience you get best bang for your buck upgrading NAC first and then NAP...but then I use ATC speakers which are relatively dynamic, transparent and fast with well behaved impedance curves.

Thanks Simon, some wise words truely spoken.  This was discussed today at the audition, Just haven’t been planning on finding a new end game - as we all know how much this upsets the bank manager...or I some cases for some makes them happy!

thanks for your input.

boom posted:

Thanks Crackie, some great information and very accurate in your description on the 400, I totally agree.

I’ll check out the ProAc if I can Find them in then in dealers, have,t seen any to date so might be a dead end.

I did have a great demo today, base line, 272-555-250dr SLcable-Sopra2, that was as close as we could get to my system with what the dealer had in stock. 2nd NDS-555-272-250dr, 3rd swapped out the 250dr on the latter for a 300dr.

Each stage brought on improvements and of course the latter was superior, I really enjoyed what it did, however, it didn’t blow me away enough for me to think about pulling the trigger and drop some serious $$$ on black boxes......it did show me how good my system really is and I don’t think I’m missing out on too much by staying put....just some tweaking to do.

We did discuss a fraim rack, as My gear is sitting on a 20 year old Apollo, Its a difficult decision to make as not easy to demo..

Thanks for your input

B

Then I think that rack may be the next thing so upgrade!  (Maybe a Fraim, maybe a Quadraspire.)

boom posted 

 

We did discuss a fraim rack, as My gear is sitting on a 20 year old Apollo, Its a difficult decision to make as not easy to demo..

Thanks for your input

B

 

 

After reading through this thread I would suggest the first move would be get yourself a Naim Fraim or Quadresphire.....

I had an Apollo rack for quite sometime, made one or two modifications over the years... and spent a long time deciding to upgrade it or not....

The result moving from an Apollo rack to Naim Fraim was with no exaggeration Night and Day....

I should have made the move along time ago, but often we focus on Black boxes and speakers, cables ect ect

So I would start with the Rack, you might well find everything else sounds so good afterwards you will leave the rest of the system as it is....

wenger2015 posted:

boom posted 

 

We did discuss a fraim rack, as My gear is sitting on a 20 year old Apollo, Its a difficult decision to make as not easy to demo..

Thanks for your input

B

 

 

After reading through this thread I would suggest the first move would be get yourself a Naim Fraim or Quadresphire.....

I had an Apollo rack for quite sometime, made one or two modifications over the years... and spent a long time deciding to upgrade it or not....

The result moving from an Apollo rack to Naim Fraim was with no exaggeration Night and Day....

I should have made the move along time ago, but often we focus on Black boxes and speakers, cables ect ect

So I would start with the Rack, you might well find everything else sounds so good afterwards you will leave the rest of the system as it is....

 

Thanks for your input Wenger. I remember you having the Apollo, and was going to message you for some input on this rack subject. As you can appreciate because you have been there, the thought of spending so much on a rack is extreamely hard to get your head around as it’s so difficult to do an A/B demo to validate what people say. The thought always crosses my mind that the money would be much better being spent on a black box.

What was the biggest improvement you noticed with that pitiqilar upgrade?

Boom,

The thought of spending a small fortune on a Rack was a lengthy one for me, partly for the reasons you have mentioned, it’s virtually impossible to do an AB test....

plus my Apollo rack was an ex demo rack purchased from a very good dealer, so my instinct was it must be a quality rack otherwise why would they be using it...

Rather then try and put into words the difference the fraim made, ( although if you search out the thread I did make an attempt to do just that) I would say for me going from the Apollo, which is a very poor excuse for a rack was equivalent of a Black box upgrade plus abit more.

Everything instantly sounded so much better .... all aspects were noticeably improved.. all the black boxes just reached their full potential ..it really was a night and day moment...... the money aspect of the upgrade has become insignificant now...

I purchased two racks for brains and brawn.... no doubt that helped considerably....

I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever with the fraim, just wish I had come to this decision sooner...

Thanks Wenger, that helps a lot!

Focal has announced a new Diablo Utopia. You might be able to find 2008-2018 version for a modest sum. 

It would definitely show off all that your electronics can do! 

Doesn’t that look sexy! Might be a bit small for my room, 10 x 6.5 meters.

I had a similar revalation to Wenger when going from a generic Target copy to Fraim Lite, it was the first time the CDX2 made sense and it cured the radio reception of my superline too. I do wish I’d bitten the bullet though and bought full fat Fraim in the first place but I bottled it and did half measures the first time round because of the lack of a demo, it was even touch and go between Lite and isoblue.

Boom - that is a large room! Some years ago I moved into a larger place and my great kudos s20 could simply not move the room, thus went for a larger speaker 3-way w 8’ bass. Size is not everything, it also sounds great, but am wondering if that is part of your problem also. At least now - also with an upgrade from 250 to 300 - i enjoy good drumkicks etc. Dont know the sopras, but at least consider home demo of a larger speaker to see what it does (maybe s600 even...) br Lars

boom posted:

 Might be a bit small for my room, 10 x 6.5 meters.

Boom,

      I see your room is similar in dimension to my own, also with S-400 but with an Nait XS driving them.  Do you have a primary listening position this room, how are the speakers oriented?  

As background I tend to treat my hi-fi as a glorified radio in that I don't get a lot of time to still to sit in particular place and just listen to music.  I'm always moving around/through this room and in this context the S-400 are exemplary as the music sounds good wherever you are.  That's important to me, as I consider myself as someone who is more interested in music than hi-fi.  However there is still an area where the music is appreciably more focused.  In my room I have the speakers 3 metres apart firing down the length of it and the sweet spot extends from 5 metres out and continues to increase in focus as you get closer to the 2 metre mark where the focus becomes clearest and dare I say it punchier.  Though I am often tempted to upgrade the amp, I suspect I'd be betting a much bigger upgrade by giving up work and turning my much smaller study into a listening room and spending more on source.

good luck with your choices.

mcjt posted:

Focal has announced a new Diablo Utopia. You might be able to find 2008-2018 version for a modest sum. 

It would definitely show off all that your electronics can do! 

Note the optimal listening position.

LarsDK posted:

Boom - that is a large room! Some years ago I moved into a larger place and my great kudos s20 could simply not move the room, thus went for a larger speaker 3-way w 8’ bass. Size is not everything, it also sounds great, but am wondering if that is part of your problem also. At least now - also with an upgrade from 250 to 300 - i enjoy good drumkicks etc. Dont know the sopras, but at least consider home demo of a larger speaker to see what it does (maybe s600 even...) br Lars

Great point, thanks Lars

yeti42 posted:

mcjt posted:

Focal has announced a new Diablo Utopia. You might be able to find 2008-2018 version for a modest sum. 

It would definitely show off all that your electronics can do! 

Note the optimal listening position.

Haha must be rear ported 

Simon_H posted:

boom posted:

 Might be a bit small for my room, 10 x 6.5 meters.

Boom,

      I see your room is similar in dimension to my own, also with S-400 but with an Nait XS driving them.  Do you have a primary listening position this room, how are the speakers oriented?  

As background I tend to treat my hi-fi as a glorified radio in that I don't get a lot of time to still to sit in particular place and just listen to music.  I'm always moving around/through this room and in this context the S-400 are exemplary as the music sounds good wherever you are.  That's important to me, as I consider myself as someone who is more interested in music than hi-fi.  However there is still an area where the music is appreciably more focused.  In my room I have the speakers 3 metres apart firing down the length of it and the sweet spot extends from 5 metres out and continues to increase in focus as you get closer to the 2 metre mark where the focus becomes clearest and dare I say it punchier.  Though I am often tempted to upgrade the amp, I suspect I'd be betting a much bigger upgrade by giving up work and turning my much smaller study into a listening room and spending more on source.

good luck with your choices.

I read this and it could have been me writing it, I’m exactly the same with my listening. Unfortunately for me the sweet spot is not great as I have a L couch sideways in that area, I do tend to spend a lot of time sitting at the opposite end on the room at the dining room table listing or working from the kitchen island, which is off to the side, At the opposite end also. All open plan.

for me living with the music is so important, a dedicated listening room wouldn’t work. Unless it was an extension to my existing 10 x 6.5m room - with sliding doors to open up for every day listening.......mmm now that’s a thought!

great chatting Simon