Naim Amps

trunkmonkey posted:

Alba and Bob, I’m keen to try the Olive range too, starting with Nait 2, but they are not so easy to find and quite pricey.

Therefore: try Nac 72 / Nap 140. You pay the same as a Nait 2, have most of the sound of a Nait 2, and more power so you have more options regarding loudspeakers.

Hmack posted:

Yes, that's all very well but why not have it all - there are quite a few amplifiers out there with the 'boogie factor' claimed by Naim amp enthusiasts but with fantastic soundstage, detail, depth and imagery as well. Why deliberately limit one's options?

I would certainly like the Nait 1 without the hard (distorted?) sound that is evident with the Majik speakers and some LPs. Maybe 5m NACA5 will tame that. What other amp brands are you thinking of, out of interest?

However, great boogie / rhythm is not what i particularly love about this amp, although they may be directly related. It’s the effortless musicality which has been the eye opener. By this, I mean that I find the music so easy to follow. I suspect this is because each instrument is near perfectly in time with one another. The music just flows so easily.

But I have come to realise that I don’t experience music the same way as everyone else. I know some people will 100% not appreciate this strength and wonder what I’m going on about. The Nait will sound out of tune to them, compared to my other setup. This is because they are highly sensitive to the tune of each individual instrument, even when each instrument is not perfectly in time and in sync. They will literally not notice slightly out of sync instruments, whereas this is what I’m sensitive to and where the Nait 1 is so amazing, bringing the whole performance together as one whole.

When I go back to my other setup, it’s like each instrument is battling for attention. This isn’t so obvious on less rhythm lead songs. So, Tracks with lots of tuneful harmonies might still win out on the old setup, but these don’t form the bulk of my listening.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Therefore: try Nac 72 / Nap 140. You pay the same as a Nait 2, have most of the sound of a Nait 2, and more power so you have more options regarding loudspeakers.

Thanks. I will look into that!

trunkmonkey posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Therefore: try Nac 72 / Nap 140. You pay the same as a Nait 2, have most of the sound of a Nait 2, and more power so you have more options regarding loudspeakers.

Thanks. I will look into that!

They come up frequently. Alternatively, a Nac 62 works well as well as a Nap 90 / Nap 110. This would save you some extra pennies since they are a bit cheaper.

I think Bob has written it already, but this generation pairs very well with Vinyl.

Make sure you read as much as possible about the Phono boards.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Make sure you read as much as possible about the Phono boards.

I'm using Urika so assume I don't need to read up on this?

On a related point, I have a tiny RCA-to-DIN adaptor on the Nait, but assume it's worth switching from Linn Silver RCAs to a RCA-to-Din cable at some point, so as to remove the adaptor?

trunkmonkey posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Make sure you read as much as possible about the Phono boards.

I'm using Urika so assume I don't need to read up on this?

On a related point, I have a tiny RCA-to-DIN adaptor on the Nait, but assume it's worth switching from Linn Silver RCAs to a RCA-to-Din cable at some point, so as to remove the adaptor?

Indeed, the Urika is a phono stage so you don't need the internal phono cards.

The general consensus is indeed that DIN connections are best, even when the DIN connector is only at one side of the cable. I can't judge if it is cost effective.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Therefore: try Nac 72 / Nap 140. You pay the same as a Nait 2, have most of the sound of a Nait 2, and more power so you have more options regarding loudspeakers.

Got a 72/140 up and running. 72 has not been serviced to the best of my knowledge. 140 was serviced by Darren a couple of years ago.

Sounds good. I like it. Certainly more grunt.

Ultimately, I don't think it's quite as engaging as the Nait 1, albeit very close. Most importantly for me, it has the Nait timing and is almost as effortless for me to enjoy.

I will live with it a while and then go back to Nait and see how things stand. I am a bit wary of Naim amps becoming incessant and tiresome over time, based on reputation, perhaps unfairly so. I think the 72/140 is going to be more prone to this than the Nait 1, but will have to wait and see.

I might also try Linn Karin (pre-SMPS) / Klout just to be sure I'm done with Linn, but running out of steam now, and would just like to forget about HiFi for a while.

Thanks everyone for their help. By all means keep the thoughts coming.

I'm still waiting for 5m NAC A4 so still using 2.5m K400 (single wired). Anyone actually compared K400 to NAC A4 at the same length?

trunkmonkey posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Therefore: try Nac 72 / Nap 140. You pay the same as a Nait 2, have most of the sound of a Nait 2, and more power so you have more options regarding loudspeakers.

Got a 72/140 up and running. 72 has not been serviced to the best of my knowledge. 140 was serviced by Darren a couple of years ago.

Sounds good. I like it. Certainly more grunt.

Ultimately, I don't think it's quite as engaging as the Nait 1, albeit very close. Most importantly for me, it has the Nait timing and is almost as effortless for me to enjoy.

I will live with it a while and then go back to Nait and see how things stand. I am a bit wary of Naim amps becoming incessant and tiresome over time, based on reputation, perhaps unfairly so. I think the 72/140 is going to be more prone to this than the Nait 1, but will have to wait and see.

I might also try Linn Karin (pre-SMPS) / Klout just to be sure I'm done with Linn, but running out of steam now, and would just like to forget about HiFi for a while.

Thanks everyone for their help. By all means keep the thoughts coming.

I'm still waiting for 5m NAC A4 so still using 2.5m K400 (single wired). Anyone actually compared K400 to NAC A4 at the same length?

The 72 is a really lovely pre-amp, but it could do with a nice pre-loved Hi-Cap. Not an expensive upgrade and it makes a big difference (to my ears). Never tiring.

Wugged Woy posted:

trunkmonkey posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Therefore: try Nac 72 / Nap 140. You pay the same as a Nait 2, have most of the sound of a Nait 2, and more power so you have more options regarding loudspeakers.

Got a 72/140 up and running. 72 has not been serviced to the best of my knowledge. 140 was serviced by Darren a couple of years ago.

Sounds good. I like it. Certainly more grunt.

Ultimately, I don't think it's quite as engaging as the Nait 1, albeit very close. Most importantly for me, it has the Nait timing and is almost as effortless for me to enjoy.

I will live with it a while and then go back to Nait and see how things stand. I am a bit wary of Naim amps becoming incessant and tiresome over time, based on reputation, perhaps unfairly so. I think the 72/140 is going to be more prone to this than the Nait 1, but will have to wait and see.

I might also try Linn Karin (pre-SMPS) / Klout just to be sure I'm done with Linn, but running out of steam now, and would just like to forget about HiFi for a while.

Thanks everyone for their help. By all means keep the thoughts coming.

I'm still waiting for 5m NAC A4 so still using 2.5m K400 (single wired). Anyone actually compared K400 to NAC A4 at the same length?

The 72 is a really lovely pre-amp, but it could do with a nice pre-loved Hi-Cap. Not an expensive upgrade and it makes a big difference (to my ears). Never tiring.

Personally, I'm not sure yet about the Hicap. I tried my Hicap DR for a couple of weeks and was not convinced. I still need to try an Olive Hicap, but I'm saving pennies or a new TT first.

trunkmonkey posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Therefore: try Nac 72 / Nap 140. You pay the same as a Nait 2, have most of the sound of a Nait 2, and more power so you have more options regarding loudspeakers.

Got a 72/140 up and running. 72 has not been serviced to the best of my knowledge. 140 was serviced by Darren a couple of years ago.

Sounds good. I like it. Certainly more grunt.

Ultimately, I don't think it's quite as engaging as the Nait 1, albeit very close. Most importantly for me, it has the Nait timing and is almost as effortless for me to enjoy.

I will live with it a while and then go back to Nait and see how things stand. I am a bit wary of Naim amps becoming incessant and tiresome over time, based on reputation, perhaps unfairly so. I think the 72/140 is going to be more prone to this than the Nait 1, but will have to wait and see.

I might also try Linn Karin (pre-SMPS) / Klout just to be sure I'm done with Linn, but running out of steam now, and would just like to forget about HiFi for a while.

Thanks everyone for their help. By all means keep the thoughts coming.

I'm still waiting for 5m NAC A4 so still using 2.5m K400 (single wired). Anyone actually compared K400 to NAC A4 at the same length?

Do you have a grey or a black Snaic? I have been reading that this makes quite a difference.

It's black. I've connected it with the writing going from 72-to-140, which I assume is correct...?

Which is better, grey or black?

I've used the Naim labelled power cord  from my Nait 5i, cos the supplied one is just plain black with a new MK plug on the end. Is that the right cable for this period do you think - i.e. no writing down it?

Bonus for the olive amps is that they match my curtains

Black is best. Not sure about the writing, but the little plastic ring goes at the end where the music comes from, in this case the 72. 

Ardbeg10y posted:

Wugged Woy posted:

trunkmonkey posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Therefore: try Nac 72 / Nap 140. You pay the same as a Nait 2, have most of the sound of a Nait 2, and more power so you have more options regarding loudspeakers.

Got a 72/140 up and running. 72 has not been serviced to the best of my knowledge. 140 was serviced by Darren a couple of years ago.

Sounds good. I like it. Certainly more grunt.

Ultimately, I don't think it's quite as engaging as the Nait 1, albeit very close. Most importantly for me, it has the Nait timing and is almost as effortless for me to enjoy.

I will live with it a while and then go back to Nait and see how things stand. I am a bit wary of Naim amps becoming incessant and tiresome over time, based on reputation, perhaps unfairly so. I think the 72/140 is going to be more prone to this than the Nait 1, but will have to wait and see.

I might also try Linn Karin (pre-SMPS) / Klout just to be sure I'm done with Linn, but running out of steam now, and would just like to forget about HiFi for a while.

Thanks everyone for their help. By all means keep the thoughts coming.

I'm still waiting for 5m NAC A4 so still using 2.5m K400 (single wired). Anyone actually compared K400 to NAC A4 at the same length?

The 72 is a really lovely pre-amp, but it could do with a nice pre-loved Hi-Cap. Not an expensive upgrade and it makes a big difference (to my ears). Never tiring.

Personally, I'm not sure yet about the Hicap. I tried my Hicap DR for a couple of weeks and was not convinced. I still need to try an Olive Hicap, but I'm saving pennies or a new TT first.

My HiCap made a big improvement to my 72, but it is an Olive one. There could be a mismatch maybe when it comes to using a newer HC, especially one that has been DR'ed. That is why I recommended a nice pre-loved (and I meant Olive) one.

Wugged Woy posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Wugged Woy posted:

trunkmonkey posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Therefore: try Nac 72 / Nap 140. You pay the same as a Nait 2, have most of the sound of a Nait 2, and more power so you have more options regarding loudspeakers.

Got a 72/140 up and running. 72 has not been serviced to the best of my knowledge. 140 was serviced by Darren a couple of years ago.

Sounds good. I like it. Certainly more grunt.

Ultimately, I don't think it's quite as engaging as the Nait 1, albeit very close. Most importantly for me, it has the Nait timing and is almost as effortless for me to enjoy.

I will live with it a while and then go back to Nait and see how things stand. I am a bit wary of Naim amps becoming incessant and tiresome over time, based on reputation, perhaps unfairly so. I think the 72/140 is going to be more prone to this than the Nait 1, but will have to wait and see.

I might also try Linn Karin (pre-SMPS) / Klout just to be sure I'm done with Linn, but running out of steam now, and would just like to forget about HiFi for a while.

Thanks everyone for their help. By all means keep the thoughts coming.

I'm still waiting for 5m NAC A4 so still using 2.5m K400 (single wired). Anyone actually compared K400 to NAC A4 at the same length?

The 72 is a really lovely pre-amp, but it could do with a nice pre-loved Hi-Cap. Not an expensive upgrade and it makes a big difference (to my ears). Never tiring.

Personally, I'm not sure yet about the Hicap. I tried my Hicap DR for a couple of weeks and was not convinced. I still need to try an Olive Hicap, but I'm saving pennies or a new TT first.

My HiCap made a big improvement to my 72, but it is an Olive one. There could be a mismatch maybe when it comes to using a newer HC, especially one that has been DR'ed. That is why I recommended a nice pre-loved (and I meant Olive) one.

Of course. In my experience Naim works best when pairing things from the same generation. Exceptions are there for sure! The Olive Hicap is on my list, but I have a limited budget negotiated with SWMBO.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Wugged Woy posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Wugged Woy posted:

trunkmonkey posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Therefore: try Nac 72 / Nap 140. You pay the same as a Nait 2, have most of the sound of a Nait 2, and more power so you have more options regarding loudspeakers.

Got a 72/140 up and running. 72 has not been serviced to the best of my knowledge. 140 was serviced by Darren a couple of years ago.

Sounds good. I like it. Certainly more grunt.

Ultimately, I don't think it's quite as engaging as the Nait 1, albeit very close. Most importantly for me, it has the Nait timing and is almost as effortless for me to enjoy.

I will live with it a while and then go back to Nait and see how things stand. I am a bit wary of Naim amps becoming incessant and tiresome over time, based on reputation, perhaps unfairly so. I think the 72/140 is going to be more prone to this than the Nait 1, but will have to wait and see.

I might also try Linn Karin (pre-SMPS) / Klout just to be sure I'm done with Linn, but running out of steam now, and would just like to forget about HiFi for a while.

Thanks everyone for their help. By all means keep the thoughts coming.

I'm still waiting for 5m NAC A4 so still using 2.5m K400 (single wired). Anyone actually compared K400 to NAC A4 at the same length?

The 72 is a really lovely pre-amp, but it could do with a nice pre-loved Hi-Cap. Not an expensive upgrade and it makes a big difference (to my ears). Never tiring.

Personally, I'm not sure yet about the Hicap. I tried my Hicap DR for a couple of weeks and was not convinced. I still need to try an Olive Hicap, but I'm saving pennies or a new TT first.

My HiCap made a big improvement to my 72, but it is an Olive one. There could be a mismatch maybe when it comes to using a newer HC, especially one that has been DR'ed. That is why I recommended a nice pre-loved (and I meant Olive) one.

Of course. In my experience Naim works best when pairing things from the same generation. Exceptions are there for sure! The Olive Hicap is on my list, but I have a limited budget negotiated with SWMBO.

Understand. Been there.

In fact I've been there for the last 20 years .................

Damn it Janet - if I turn off this amp off once more thinking its the volume knob then I will screeeem!

It's all good fun really.

Alba1320 posted:

trunkmonkey posted:

Damn it Janet - if I turn off this amp off once more thinking its the volume knob then I will screeeem!

It's all good fun really.

BTW, unintentional switch offs aside , are you leaving the amps switched on 24/7?

It sounds you have the Nac / Nap stacked on each other. Ensure enough distance between them. I have my Nap on the floor, and my Nac on the sideboard to ensure sufficient distance. Unfortunately, SWMBO put flowers on it - strangely enough no difference in SQ.

Alba1320 posted:

BTW, unintentional switch offs aside , are you leaving the amps switched on 24/7?

The 140 has been on for a day. The 72 only arrived this morning, but I will leave them both on for the time being. 

Ardbeg10y posted:

It sounds you have the Nac / Nap stacked on each other. Ensure enough distance between them. I have my Nap on the floor, and my Nac on the sideboard to ensure sufficient distance. Unfortunately, SWMBO put flowers on it - strangely enough no difference in SQ.

Thanks for the tip. I have two spare Isoblue shelves, although one is the base and perhaps not ideal. I will split them apart. Shame, cos I like the look of them side by side.

Alba1320 posted:

 

BTW, unintentional switch offs aside , are you leaving the amps switched on 24/7?

I did this decades ago

Everything on 24/7

Not so anymore

Risky business leaving electronics on 24/7 not beeing home if accident is out

Climate waste, somebody would say

Everything turned off at night

I just turn on the gear when listening or when at home intending to listen later, in my age I really can't hear much if any diff

I've split them across shelves. Couldn't really hear any difference but, it's so new to my ears, that is probably not surprising.

I tried connecting them to the same twin outlet socket, rather than the normal mains extension block. Whilst that sounded clearer, it seemed to emphasis the slight 'relentless' presentation. If 5m NAC A5 doesn't calm this then I will likely switch back to the Nait, unless I just get used to it. I'm not sure mixing with a laid back speaker is really the way I want to go about things. But otherwise, it's really good. 

Is the 32.5/250 a bit less 'in your face'? I've read there's nothing that really has the same Nait 1/2 presentation.

Alba1320 posted:

So it's A5 you're getting? Is it new? If so, some say that it takes an age to fully run in, so you may have to be patient... (Though I'm not sure you will find many who would describe A5 as a 'calming influence', but as mentioned previously, it will at least let you hear the amps as intended).

It's second hand, being cut down to 5m and re-terminated with bananas, so I guess (in part) it will still need to burn in.

Alba1320 posted:

If you're planning on trying a pre/power combo that includes a 250 (or 135s), be aware that they do not have a built-in supply for the pre-amp, which means that use of an external pre-amp supply, most likely a Hi-Cap, is mandatory.

The 32.5 was the forerunner to the 72, and the latter is, I would suggest, probably thought of as being the least 'in your face' of the Olive pre-amps, with the possible exception of the 52. However, once you move to a pre/power, and further up the range, they are only gong to get more revealing of the source. 

Thanks for the info. Very useful as I'm completely unaware of a lot of the things most Naim owners take for granted. The 'in your face' sound might be unfair and misleading. I just wanted to avoid asking for a more laid back sound, cos to me that suggests 'sleepy' and a bit 'dull'. Perhaps 'relentless' is better. 

Alba1320 posted: 

Talking of source, what spec. is your LP12, and what PSU do you have? Naim electronics are said not to like SMPS, though I'm not sure if problems caused by the original Lingo still apply to later supplies?

FWIW, I seem to recall that, back in the day, the Nait was thought of as being unusually revealing, perhaps even ruthlessly so, of source quality, given that it was 'merely' an entry level product, and it seemed that the Nait 2 was thought of as being a bit more 'accommodating'.

I've got an Akurate Radikal. Otherwise, it's all top spec except for the Krystal cartridge instead of Kandid.

I do have a dedicated fused spur I can used for the amp, but stupidly got the cable run off the drum from the socket to the dedicated fuse box, instead of the other way around. I'm guessing this is why is sounds clean and clear but laboured - I've never liked it. I can use it to dampen the Naim sound, but I don't really like that approach - i.e. making the system a bit boring in order to take the edge off things.

If I sell my pre/power then I would use part of the funds to buy a second LP12, with Valhalla. That might be interesting to compare to the main deck as it would remove the SMPS.

Alba1320 posted:

 As all of this is still quite new to you, and you have tried a few amps in a short period, it might be best to wait for the A5 etc., and just live with things for a while, and hopefully enjoy some music, before deciding upon your next move?

I think that's good advise. Thanks.

Now that is quite a source, Trunk! I can only dream of that. I have a simple project debut carbon turntable which performs nicely. It is absolutely a bit forward but this makes many music from the 70's nice. I love the rythms. My Raspberry Pi + Chord Mojo DAC sound more relaxed. 

I bought some vinyl this weekend from A Franklin and what an energy is there in Think!

Ardbeg10y posted:

Now that is quite a source, Trunk! I can only dream of that. I have a simple project debut carbon turntable which performs nicely. It is absolutely a bit forward but this makes many music from the 70's nice. I love the rythms. My Raspberry Pi + Chord Mojo DAC sound more relaxed. 

I bought some vinyl this weekend from A Franklin and what an energy is there in Think!

Yeah, I guess the price of some of her LPs will rise a bit. I only have 'Lady Soul' and should get more. Easy to forgot some artists. Thanks for the reminder.

I do like the old dog (LP12). It was a rare moment for me when I immediately thought, "that's what I want - that's what I've been looking for all this time!" This was a few decades ago now though   Kans were similar - should never had sold them. There was an element of that with the Nait too, although I would like something that sounds better and has more power.

As long as the Project is enjoyable then great. I've enjoyed the LP12 upgrades but am shocked how much I've invested over the years. Provided they last 20 years or more then it won't be quite so bad. 

I am curious what I'll make of a pre-Cirkus Valhalla/Ittok/K9 these days. Hopefully get the chance soonish. I know some folks like 'something' about the pre-Lingo decks. More boogie perhaps.

I will give it time, but really don't think the 72/140 is my cup of tea. Those super fast leading edge transients are a bit too much for me on some songs. Otherwise, I really like it. Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained. And I will hang on for NACA5. Won't rule out CB pre/powers either.

Sorry Alba, I somehow missed your last response. I don't get any hum.  I tried the Naim amps on a dedicated fused spur, with it's own distribution box, but it's more musically flowing (to my ears) sharing a simple distribution block with the Radikal. Like I said earlier, this might be cos the fused spur has never sounded preferable to the ring main, for some reason, possibly cable direction. It doesn't have any phono cards installed.

I've had the 72/140 running constantly and that 'relentlessness' I struggled with does appear to have given way. It just seems calmer now and not 'too fast', if you know what I mean, so thanks everyone for the sound advise there. I very much like this paring now. Great sound with vinyl. If I had to have more power then this would be a very good solution.

However, that damn Nait 1 is still more effortless for my brain. Music flows a bit better and seems a bit more tuneful too. This is all based on my ear, sensitivities and blind spots. I am convinced many folks would disagree with this outcome. I really think the Nait is not for everyone but, for some reason, it just delivers music in a very satisfying way for me.

I have an old LK style Linn Majik-I coming to see how that holds up, but I suspect the Nait will win out again. I would also like to compare it to an Exposure X or XV but they seem very rare these days. I am borrowing a Creek 4140 S2 as well, so something else to compare. I feel like Don King lining up new contenders for the champ.