DAB vs FM

Good morning,

DAB frustrates me in the car with its drop outs when I’m tuned to Jazz FM. And for R3 and R4 the sound quality is far better on FM.   

In house I have a Naim Nat 05 which is superb but as you say limited number of stations.   However,  I am very impressed with the quality of Internet radio on my Muso Qb.  

Best regards,

Lindsay

I agree about the DAB dropouts, but to be honest I prefer that to the sometimes variable quality of FM while I'm driving.

I have heard that internet radio can be excellent quality. That's interesting about the Muso Qb.

But I just want to have a cheap source of DAB radio for casual listening to play through my otherwise pretty high-end system. I know that's a bit of a conundrum, but I can't spend a lot at the moment, and who doesn't enjoy a bargain?!

I have a Naim N-Vi which unfortunately does not have the optional tuner module (of either format) but I am about to hook up the Toslink output from a moderate quality midi-sized Teac FM/DAB tuner (in nice nick, from the usual auction site) to my N-Vi's DAC input, as well as connecting the tuner's RCA outputs direct to my amp. That'll be an interesting comparison....I think.

Any other suggestions as to how to maximise the quality?

vintageaxeman posted:

..I agree about the DAB dropouts, but to be honest I prefer that to the sometimes variable quality of FM while I'm driving...

Interesting.  I find the opposite.  I much prefer FM while driving as I find that drop outs from DAB (or just nothing) are far more annoying than moments of increased noise or distortion while driving through tricky FM areas.  All it takes is one interesting interview or play on Radio 4 to suddenly start dropping out and it's all over for in car DAB.  My girlfriend kept complaining to the dealership about the radio reception in her car - it was set to DAB, and this was just her driving around London and the South and out to Wiltshire now and then!  I changed it over to FM for her and she was delighted.  No more reception problems.

It's rare for FM to ever completely lose the signal - certainly pretty much impossible here in the south east - but surprisingly common to have either intermittent or no signal while driving the same routes listing to DAB.  For me, as things stand, in-car DAB is a complete non-starter.

Unfortunately even at home things don't improve for DAB; I have a couple of tuners with DAB.  Compared to FM - including comparison to the FM tuner section of the DAB tuners where applicable - the sound of DAB is obviously not as nice.  

vintageaxeman posted:

There are channels I can get on DAB which aren't available FM. So I listen to DAB, whether it is our little Roberts Radio, my car DAB stereo, or my 'other manufacturer's' DAB tuner through my Naim/ATC system.

I am aware that in the past, FM has been criticised for only having a bandwidth up to 16kHz (less than the 20kHz of CD).

And DAB has been lambasted for its sound quality on many occasions.

So I just wondered if anyone here has any opinions of FM sound quality vs DAB sound quality nowadays....

I used a Denon TU1800 DAB/FM tuner for a while with a separate roof mounted DAB and FM aerials and was very surprised at the qualitity of local DAB stations some were better than the Internet equivalent on my NDX.

I also have a Unitilite connected to a roof mounted FM aerial and the DAB is not as good so I think a lot is down to the aerial used or seems so in my location.

Might be worth looking at.

I quite often drive from Buckingham to Cornwall R4 FM all the way, never a blip. 

I have a NAT-05 so am FM only,  last year I had a Rotel FM/DAB+ inhouse & was able to have a play for a few days,  It has separate FM & DAB aerial inputs & had FM connected to my attic mounted RS G14 & DAB to a wire type room antenna,  but no harm with that as with DAB transmissions you either 'get it' or you don't  (or the mud bubbles).   On the Rotel FM was better, easier on the ear & more natural than DAB.   DAB was OK,  I could live with it but FM was better.  I liked the number of DAB stations available,  not that I liked the station contents,  most disappointing was Jazz FM on DAB+ it transmits on a very low 32Mb/s bitrate & it makes me wonder why bother,  missing a trick methinks.        Going back to my NAT-05 was an improvement over the Rotel on R3 especially.

I have no intention of going to DAB as & when FM national broadcasting gets switched off,  iRadio (webradio) is as good as if not better,  and unquestionably the higher bit rate www. stations are far better,  I'm constantly swapping between FM & iRadio & I really can't decide,  however BBC's FLAC test transmissions are outstanding.

I do use DAB in my car,  I'm not at all convinced a car is the right environment for 'hifi'.  I prefer the livelier DAB presentation with more treble & bass. The coverage in my area is good & I don't get dropouts except in some of the valley's in Cotswolds & Chilterns & then its easy (one button press) to switch to FM.

The main problem with DAB is that in order to squeeze as many channels as possible onto the multiplexes, all the channels (except for BBC R3 on occasions when the BBC judges that it matters) operate at a much too low bit rate and often in mono. It's not surprising it sounds so awful.

best

David

The compression could be handled a lot better. Unfortunately the DAB implemenatation in the UK is prehistoric using extremely old technology ... and quite simply is very inefficient it it’s use of bandwidth for a given sound quality, which is why it tends to sound relatively poor and uninvolving and more suited for simple casual listening or talk radio. 

DAB is not really for the radio or music lover lover in the UK.

Now if and when DAB+ gets rolled out.. it could at least start to match lossy web radio.

We do have a couple of DAB standalone radios in the house, but they often make sounds like boiling mud.

I use a Freeview tuner in the bedroom which uses the TV aerial, It sounds way better than DAB, but nowhere near as good as FM. I cannot believe that DAB was ever intended for anything other than casual listening. 

The bit rate on Freeview radio is much higher than UK DAB. I think 300 kb/s or thereabouts. DAB could sound much better if the multiplex operators just transmitted the channels they have room for, but as S in S says, the UK implementation is archaic and they have to cut the bit rates to unbelievable lows, and often use mono, to squeeze in all that the commercial guys insist.

The UK should abandon DAB and go over to DAB+ instead, but we are stuck with an embarrassingly large population of dinosaur DAB radios (which includes lots of early Naim FM/DAB modules incidentally), so politically that is difficult to do. Keeping FM going, as the BBC have now admitted, is the sensible way forward while we wait for all those old DAB radios to be thrown away. 

Best

David