Update for NAC172XS

Sometimes the obvious choice is “obvious” for a good reason.  If you like what the 172 does, I'd be very surprised if you didn’t find the 272 a major step up in quality, but then I'm biased!  If you do go this route, I'd recommend you to start saving for a DR upgrade on the 250.  I still think the 272/250DR combo is one of the best VFM spots in the Naim range.

Roger

A 272 would be my choice and then a DR upgrade to the 250.2. This seems to be a very popular combination.

Ian.

Wait a while - I don't have any information, but I think there will be a replacement for the 272 on its way with the new straeming platform ... you can then get 272's on the second-hand market with a big discount ...

Alternatively a Uniti Nova might be tempting ..

Thanks for the replies so far guys.  Given my budget and the fact that all of the Naim gear I've ever bought was used or ex-dem,  a 272 will probably be the way I go.  However, I'm still interested to hear of any possible alternatives, especially a DAC streamer feeding a Naim pre-amp.

....or perhaps a dac straight into the 250.2????????

272 into ATC 40A  ..... no need for the 250.2 

Nice idea [@mention:13111295361132226] but unfortunately somewhat above budget  

Happy to add active speakers to the mix of considerations though.........

[@mention:45352252726143386]

I am in the same boat. I am running the 172 and NAP-200, and it's really good but I hear room for improvement. Naim doesn't seem to do a good job of describing the improvements one should expect in moving up their product line. Am I alone in that impression? So I do plan to go try a dealer, but I am very curious as to what folks have experienced in moving from the 172 to the 272.

I don't fully understand the gain and volume between the pre and power amps. If I move to the 272, should I expect the system to play louder as the 272 is feeding a juicier signal to the 200? I do expect that there will be improvements in clarity, perhaps staging? What I would reaaaally love to hear is a good deal of improvement in the separation of instruments during complex passages. With the 172/200, I can hear some blur, strain, and loss of fidelity when there are multiple low freqs happening, such as toms, bass, and bass guitar going on in quick passages, and also if there is a lot going on upstairs with various percussion instruments. It's not terrible, but I do notice it.

Thoughts, suggestions, comments, etc...?  Hopefully this isn't considered hijacking the thread as the OP and I are probably have similar goals?

No the 272 won't be louder than the 172xs. If anything it may sound quieter because of the higher quality. But you should notice a big improvement in detail, effortlessness and musicality.

You don't say what loudspeakers your 200 is driving, but the muddled sound you describe isn't normal for a 200 unless you are pushing it beyond its comfort zone with speakers that really need something with more grip like the 250DR.

best

David

I run Totem Forest Signature speakers. When I really want to get things cranked up, I'll run the volume on the 172 between 54 and 68. That's as loud as I can take with this rig. The volume in the room is satisfactory as I do enjoy loud music. I exclusively listen to FLAC and WAV files from my NAS over UPnP. That is the only source that I am concerned with. When I look at all the inputs on the 272, I wonder "would I be paying for a bunch of stuff I won't use?" Would I be better off with a streamer and pre from Naim? But that drives up the box count... Many have said the 272/250DR is a magic combo. I really need to get a demo of that rig. I could only afford to upgrade to that rig in two steps, and it would probably take 2-3yrs to do it. Which then raises the fear of something newer coming online. Yikes!

Thanks for any help...

@BBM7 Happy to have your input in the thread. 

My current system has grown slowly over the last few years and each step came via Signals used / ex-dem stock.

Uniti
Uniti 2
Uniti 2 - NAP200
NAC172 - NAP200
NAC172 - NAP250.2 - Q Acoustic Concept 40.

I fully accept that a 272 would be the next logical step but even ex-dem it is about £2k more than the 172 is worth on a trade-in. [@mention:1566878604003829]'s point about the new NAIM streaming platform has got me thinking.   However, rather than wait for unwanted 272's to hit the market maybe I should trade-in both the 172 and 250 against one of the new Uniti's. 

To be honest the functionality in the Star appeals, especially the CD drive enabling me to finally store my CDs onto the NAS.  My main  concern is would it control the Concept 40s as well as the 250 does, but then that's what dems are for......

Thanks Johnell.

Based on my research (lurking on this forum LoL), it seems that I would get more improvement by moving from 172 to 272, than I would going from the 200 to a 250DR. I would love to do both of course, but $$$...

How would you characterize the effect of moving from the 200 to the 250.2? What changes did you notice - both good and bad? (if any). 

Apart from the expected improvements in detail, soundstage etc, the 250.2 has more control over speakers than the 200, which I found out when looking for different speakers. 

The 172/250/Kudos Cardea C10s I had worked well in my previous room but the C10s were way too bright in the new (narrow) room.  To cut a long story and many auditions short, I really liked the way Concept 20s sounded so I tried the 40s expecting them to be too big for my room.  Happily the 250 keeps the bass in check and my system is sounding the best it ever has....better even than with the C10s in my previous room. 

The question now is would the Star have the same control over the 40s because the thought of trying to find new speakers is giving me palpatations!!!!!

Bbm7 posted:

 

How would you characterize the effect of moving from the 200 to the 250.2? What changes did you notice - both good and bad? (if any). 

I found that change very significant. Detail, timbre, timing, presence, stereo image and authority all took a step to a leap forward. It was immediately apparent even from a brand new 250.2 before it had bedded in, and in my setup I prefer its sonic signature over DR, especially with higher end NACs. I got one of the last 250.2 before they went DR. I use with ATC SCM19s. The internal power supply regulation in the 250.2 (and higher amps) really boosts the performance and helps iron out the speaker  impedance curve effects from other lesser apps where highlighting or fading at certain frequencies can occur (ie what some call speaker control).  One bad thing I can think of with the 250.2 is that to my ears at least, for some strange reason it has no synergy with the  NAC202.. but every other pre it excels at. Hardly surprisingly it is at its best in my setup with my 552. Oh yes another negative, they do have a prpoensity to suffer from more transformer hum from the case than perhaps some other NAPs.

Hi the 272 would make most sense it is very capable and when you upgrade with 555ps it is fantastic. Don't worry about the dr ing the 250 yet concentrate on front end. Don't be tempted by xps psu .... It needs 555ps. 

You are right the LS50w is excellent..and you could power it with streamer.... I love the LS50....that is a huge change...stick with the 272....I even ran one with a nap500 and it was excellent. The 272 needs a good support...like fraim....or equivalent it is quite microphonic.

Thanks for the explanation Simon, it makes complete sense.

Richie, I understand what you are saying but it's highly unlikely that I will ever put a £4k XPS on my system so there's no real possibility of a £7k 555 ever happening,  I'd still like to hear the LS50W just to satisfy my curiosity.