Chord launches new M Scaler for Hugo TT
Posted by: JP on 21 July 2018
Don't think this has been posted elsewhere, apologies if it has. It was launched at today's CanJam in London.
Presumably it can connect to Dave and make an improvement?
JP posted:I don't think the combined Chord Hugo TT 2 + M Scaler is intended to be superior to the Chord Dave. I asked one of the Chord reps at CanJam which would he buy if he had the choice and he clearly opted for Dave. I did have a quick listen to the combined Hugo TT2 + M Scaler over headphones but trying to assess the sound quality of almost anything with the level of background noise in the CanJam hall proved virtually impossible.
Yes that’s right. I heard it for myself and Dave maintains it’s superior sound quality.
in other words why would chord undermine their Finest Dac to date ?
An XPS Dr doesn’t transform an NDX into a NDS
same concept as Naim ... you get what you pay for.
Gazza posted:Presumably it can connect to Dave and make an improvement?
If it's the same scaler that's in the Blu 2 then, yes. And not a small one.
hungryhalibut posted:I’m still none the wiser. Simon talks of oversampling, which I’ve always understood to be totally different to upscaling, which seems to be trying to create something that wasn’t there in the first place. If you upscale MP3 to 16/44 you don’t get back the code lost when the file became MP3, so how is what the upscaler is doing any different? Baffled....
The description as provided refers to a method of oversampling. There are different ways that oversampling can be achieved, the zero sample insertion method is mathematically the most benign (which is the method Naim use), as no false or interpolated sample values are added which means bit transparency is effectively maintained. Zero multiplied by any number is always zero.
Audio upscaling is not a formal DSP term, it is more a sales/marketing term as far as I am concerned. Digital Upscaling typically refers to video format size up conversion.. which is not the same.
The main reasons oversampling is used (discrete multiples of the original sample rate) is to allow the reconstruction filter to make fewer artefacts, and to reduce clocking noise (jitter) power density in the audio pass band that may have been introduced in the encoding and playback chain. The higher the oversampling the better, but ultimately constrained by the bandwidth of the DSP and DAC... it is a case of diminishing returns.
Rob Watts and I had an interesting discussion about this... and all I’ll I say is think about what happens with hidef audio going through the Chord ‘Upscaler’ product.... Rob was totally honest about the theoretical limitations, but totally loved how his product evolved the Chord DAC product sounds... even if he couldn’t at the time totally explain why.
Maybe he politely won’t disclose how his WTA filter works ....
Innocent Bystander posted:hungryhalibut posted:I’ve never understood upscaling, and how it can make music sound better. When I tried using Asset to upscale from 16 to 24 bit it made the music bland and boring. Maybe this Chord thing is different. Can anyone explain in simple terms how it makes things sound better?
I don’t understand either - and Dave already preoduces such a wonderful presentation of music that it is hard to believe anything can be better. but not having heard, I have an open mind, perhaps primed by experience of the designer’s proven ability in maling digital sound natural.
on computer audiophile, some guys said that dave with blue mk2 is much better than dave alone.
Rob explains how it works here.
He he seems to me to suggest that the mathematical formula used is proven to perfectly recreate the original audio signal.
.sjb
Well, I have just moved from from the NOS Border Patrol DAC to the NOS Audionote 2.1 (upgraded with Blackgates), so this has little relevance for me. That said, I do think this is exciting news and I thin Rob Watts is doing sterling work for Chord. In due course I would like to hear the technology in action.
Simon about Rob Watts...
????◾even if he couldn’t at the time totally explain why.◾
And it is this that is so fascinated with this interest,everything can not be explained.!
But so it is in "real life too",everything you can not explain,if we could we would not have any problems????.
Audioquest says themselves that they do not know why their ehternet cables sound different,...just that they do it.
That is,why it is so important to test and compare,...regardless of technical explanation.
/Peder ????
IMO - any thing scientifically designed must have predictable and defined outcomes and therefore explainable. ..
I am curious why a factor of 24 was not considered... Or maybe that discovery for later :-)
I wonder at what sample rate does the human ear do it's job?
Of course a fascinating device like this requires a massive box count increase to impliment with a streamer. It's much more suited to Chord product line.
Not knocking it. Just pointing out that if you wanted to get more life out of a streamer, since you cannot do digital loopback, it would be something you would bundle on to of an external DAC. Say adding a nDAC to an NDX with the M Scaler between.
It’s not for those looking for convenience but it is the very best digital source I’ve heard........
i just read that this m saler can benefit to laptop, smartphone, cd player, streamer.....so not only hugo dacs. I will try to connect it to my brain, perhaps i will transform myself in Einstein?
I, for one, welcome our new upsampling overlord.
When I move house. And I work out how to finance a pair of Fact 12s, a new TV, and possibly longer speaker cable.
Dave is wonderful but the thought of making it better is worth selling my CD Player, which now sits there looking good, to help finance the above.
I am interested in the new mscaler for sure,having heard the Blu2/Dave many times.I look at it as a possible upgrade to the Core,feed the BNC into the mscaler/Qutest...or maybe you don’t even need the DAC,if using a 272 like me.
Just listened to a Rob Watts interview on YouTube where he said it is exactly the same filter technology, taps etc and would perform like the Blu2. Interview with pursuit audio perfection at can jam.
What if one of those taps goes faulty and starts dripping noise. Will be a buggeration for the tech docs to find it.
TOBYJUG posted:What if one of those taps goes faulty and starts dripping noise. Will be a buggeration for the tech docs to find it.
TOBYJUG posted:What if one of those taps goes faulty and starts dripping noise. Will be a buggeration for the tech docs to find it.
Lot of washers to replace if they leak...
But so what, if it sounds good, reraely goes wrong, and is fixed or replaced if it does go wrong. I’ve yet to hear the MScaler (or blu), but I couldn’t care less about yhe technology inside, only the sound, and Dave alone is sublime, so if the M-Scaler really improves it to a noticeable degree (and I am wary of the hyperbole endemic in this forum), then it must bring te nearest thing to heaven on earth if the rest of the system is up to it, which I thought Dave was already!
in their price ranges mojo/hugo/qutest/dave they are all leaders period well done chord UK''
No one mentions the TToby. 
well that's a chord amplifier.
Does anyone talk about Chord amplifiers on this forum
Well, I've watched the video of Mr Watts trying to explain himself, as I have several other similar videos, and as is pretty much always the case, I'm totally confused. In a talk he did about DAC design, he speaks of the WTA reconstruction filters and taps, and I kind of understood what he was on about. Here though, there is a reconstruction filter pre-DAC. Err....so what does the DAC do when of these up-scaling things is attached? Fine, there's a million taps in the Blu2 and Hugo thing, but the DACs fed by it have their own filters, and with a fraction of that. How does that all fit together? Aargh, Brain hurty!
Peder posted:Simon about Rob Watts...
????◾even if he couldn’t at the time totally explain why.◾
And it is this that is so fascinated with this interest,everything can not be explained.!
But so it is in "real life too",everything you can not explain,if we could we would not have any problems????.
Audioquest says themselves that they do not know why their ehternet cables sound different,...just that they do it.
That is,why it is so important to test and compare,...regardless of technical explanation.
/Peder ????
To a point, our conversation was more exploring it was potentially addressing some unknown flaw or sub optimisation elsewhere... and we discussed what had been measured and assessed..but yes he was happy this product was subjectively improving the output of some of his DACs and he was pleased with it.... but it might not have been specifically related to the oversampling... hence my comment about hidef audio... all is not what it appears... to which I am sure he won’t mind me saying we both shared a smile.
BTW upsampling is not that good, as it introduces mathematical errors..however over sampling is different as it usies whole multiples of Fs and using zero value sample insertion is generally perceived as the best way as it produces no specific digital distortion/mathematical errors.