Chord launches new M Scaler for Hugo TT

TOBYJUG posted:

No one mentions the TToby.   

Looks a very neat system M Scaler, TT2 and a pair of Toby's. Rob has mentioned some new digital amps.

one thing i wonder is why have Chord designed the case in TT style, possibly a Dave version of M Scaler with 2M taps in the future?

SongStream posted:

Well, I've watched the video of Mr Watts trying to explain himself, as I have several other similar videos, and as is pretty much always the case, I'm totally confused.  In a talk he did about DAC design, he speaks of the WTA reconstruction filters and taps, and I kind of understood what he was on about.  Here though, there is a reconstruction filter pre-DAC.  Err....so what does the DAC do when of these up-scaling things is attached?  Fine, there's a million taps in the Blu2 and Hugo thing, but the DACs fed by it have their own filters, and with a fraction of that.  How does that all fit together?  Aargh,  Brain hurty!

A reconstruction filter is an intrinsic part of the DAC and the digital to analogue signal process. Effectively the reconstruction filter processes the digital values so as make the discrete samples appear as close as possible to infinitely narrow points in time with infinite energy so they can more accurately represent a continuous signal... which of course is not physically possible hence the approximation of the reconstruction filter. Typically the sample values are passed through a digital Sinc filter (ie 1/sin(x) ) to achieve this. The larger the kernel of this filter (ie the more samples or ‘tap’ values it contains) the better.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

SongStream posted:

Well, I've watched the video of Mr Watts trying to explain himself, as I have several other similar videos, and as is pretty much always the case, I'm totally confused.  In a talk he did about DAC design, he speaks of the WTA reconstruction filters and taps, and I kind of understood what he was on about.  Here though, there is a reconstruction filter pre-DAC.  Err....so what does the DAC do when of these up-scaling things is attached?  Fine, there's a million taps in the Blu2 and Hugo thing, but the DACs fed by it have their own filters, and with a fraction of that.  How does that all fit together?  Aargh,  Brain hurty!

A reconstruction filter is an intrinsic part of the DAC and the digital to analogue signal process. Effectively the reconstruction filter processes the digital values so as make the discrete samples appear as close as possible to infinitely narrow points in time with infinite energy so they can more accurately represent a continuous signal... which of course is not physically possible hence the approximation of the reconstruction filter. Typically the sample values are passed through a digital Sinc filter (ie 1/sin(x) ) to achieve this. The larger the kernel of this filter (ie the more samples or ‘tap’ values it contains) the better.

Thanks.  In theory then this upscaled digital feed should give the DAC an easier task?  I'd formed the impression that Chord DACs were pretty well optimised for redbook, so feeding them 768khz (not sure of the bit-depth) conflicts with that, doesn't it?  Apologies for being such a dunce.

analogmusic posted:

well that's a chord amplifier.

Does anyone talk about Chord amplifiers on this forum 

Not yet.

I mentioned some new ones coming a few posts back. Well ive heard what Blu2 can do, Rob has said the TT M Scaler is a straight port, so first thing tomorrow im getting my name down.

Foxman50 posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

No one mentions the TToby.   

Looks a very neat system M Scaler, TT2 and a pair of Toby's. 

 

Not sure the missus could cope with a pair of Toby's.

where does Nyquist Theorem fit into all this oversampling stuff? of course, I'm throwing in Nyquist just to pretend I know what i'm talking about -- actually I don't

enjoy

ken

Nyquist  theorem relates to encoding a continuous signal as a series of discrete samples, and it states to accurately capture the continuos signal by sampling it, the frequency rate of the series of samples must be at  least twice that of the highest frequency in the continuous signal to be captured.

Oversampling is for playback, not encoding, and it allows simplified or more accurate low pass filters to be incorporated into the DAC in terms of performance and reduced artefacts across the sampled frequencies (pass band),  by creating ‘headroom’ above the sampled frequencies where there should be no meaningful data. It also allows the reduction of timing noise (Jitter) in the range of sampled frequencies in a ADC to DAC chain.

TOBYJUG posted:

Foxman50 posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

No one mentions the TToby.   

Looks a very neat system M Scaler, TT2 and a pair of Toby's. 

 

Not sure the missus could cope with a pair of Toby's.

SongStream posted:

Thanks.  In theory then this upscaled digital feed should give the DAC an easier task?  I'd formed the impression that Chord DACs were pretty well optimised for redbook, so feeding them 768khz (not sure of the bit-depth) conflicts with that, doesn't it?  Apologies for being such a dunce.

Easier might be one way to call it, but effectively allows the response of the filter to be more accurate and consistent across the audio band .. 

To your observation, well that moves into areas specific to Chord DACs... and it would appear in those designs a separate oversampler may subjectively provide a better result... and this may be because of sensitives due to system crosstalk and transport stream quality.... but this moves into speculation on things that are proprietary and specific to Chord designs.

tonym posted:

Gazza posted:

Tony, presumably same sound quality without a CD player should be lower price, has the same number of the “watts” taps for conversion, so could be happyxmas.

Yes, I hope so Gazza, and that was my understanding, although reading through Chord's blurb it states the device is optimised for the TT, and doesn't mention DAVE.

Checkout the discussion on headfi. Rob makes it pretty clear that an M Scaler + DAVE is better than an M Scaler + TT2, though the latter is arguably better than a DAVE on its own. 

Blu2 MScaler and Hugo2 is not better than Dave alone to my ears.....  

Pay thirty grand for the top of the range Naim or pay £3995 for the Hugo TT 2 and Hugo M scaler for £3495 that will destroy the competition

Indeed, less than a penny a tap!

This could be very exciting if it sounds as advertised.

So are we holding the nd555 orders for tt2/mscaler or what?

if the nd555 , around 21k source, can be outperformed by a 4k source, naim will be considered as a crap audio company or chord will the miracle in audio history.

I don’t believe in any of this possibilities .

French Rooster posted:

if the nd555 , around 21k source, can be outperformed by a 4k source, naim will be considered as a crap audio company or chord will the miracle in audio history.

I don’t believe in any of this possibilities .

M Scaler is not a source. It still needs some kind of streamer before it and a DAC after it.

I suppose by the time you have taken care of those, the proposition gets fairly costly.

feeling_zen posted:

French Rooster posted:

if the nd555 , around 21k source, can be outperformed by a 4k source, naim will be considered as a crap audio company or chord will the miracle in audio history.

I don’t believe in any of this possibilities .

M Scaler is not a source. It still needs some kind of streamer before it and a DAC after it.

I suppose by the time you have taken care of those, the proposition gets fairly costly.

the source is the 4k combo of m scaler/ hugo tt. I invite you to read above what Hifi Nut wrote and what Emre asked.  My response was related to that.

French Rooster posted:

feeling_zen posted:

French Rooster posted:

if the nd555 , around 21k source, can be outperformed by a 4k source, naim will be considered as a crap audio company or chord will the miracle in audio history.

I don’t believe in any of this possibilities .

M Scaler is not a source. It still needs some kind of streamer before it and a DAC after it.

I suppose by the time you have taken care of those, the proposition gets fairly costly.

the source is the 4k combo of m scaler/ hugo tt. I invite you to read above what Hifi Nut wrote and what Emre asked.  My response was related to that.

I did read it. The M Scaler is 3.5k on it's own. With a TT the total is 7.5k. Or with a DAVE, 11.5k. And it still needs a transport of some description.

Should Naim hire this guy Rob Watts?

They couldn’t afford him ????

Sadly I can’t afford to buy Naim either. The ND555 is too expensive for me.

Frank Yang posted:

Should Naim hire this guy Rob Watts?

I think you will find that Naim do not like the sound of what Rob Watts designs, they would at least heavily modify any FPGA design he would come up with. So perhaps not a marriage made in heaven. I think Naim would/have said the Chord approach gives a different presentation, but not how they feel music should sound. The punter needs to decide between them, not try and make Naim sound the same as Chord or Linn etc.

Sloop John B posted:

Rob explains how it works here. 

https://youtu.be/VfscfTkHgM4

He he seems to me to suggest that the mathematical formula used is proven to perfectly recreate the original audio signal. 

.sjb

Very interesting video !

Rob Watts explains the timing problem in digital music and its solution in a very straightforward way.

Makes me wonder how or if Naim did solved this essential problem in it's new ND555.

Gazza posted:

Frank Yang posted:

Should Naim hire this guy Rob Watts?

I think you will find that Naim do not like the sound of what Rob Watts designs, they would at least heavily modify any FPGA design he would come up with. So perhaps not a marriage made in heaven. I think Naim would/have said the Chord approach gives a different presentation, but not how they feel music should sound. The punter needs to decide between them, not try and make Naim sound the same as Chord or Linn etc.

That's a strange one Gazza. To my old, Naim-battered lugholes, I'd say Chord DACs have all the strengths of the sound, and then some. I'm afraid my cynical nature might think "Well, they would say that, wouldn't they?", but then I discount pronouncements from Naim or Chord until I've heard things myself.

From my purely personal point of view, the main, really interesting,  comparison will be Melco/Scaler/DAVE vs. ND555/Melco, and as I've only heard these two setups at my dealers I wouldn't like to pick a winner until they've both performed in my own system for a while.