ND555 Impressions

Given that - Naim electronics take a good while to settle in ....... I think it very wise of Naim to hold back ..... until a review unit is fully bedded in ......... with about 6 months under its belt......

Bert Schurink posted:

Michael posted:

I have a top spec LP12 Ekos SE Kandid & Keel and I agree that the ND555 has narrowed the gap by a fair margin,  compared to my previous CD555. I would never part with my large collection of vinyl though (being in my 70s and having loved it all my life) because it has that magic and I still enjoy the ritual of playing a record. I now feel that I have the best of both worlds and digital replay has never sounded better in my system.

Michael do you think it changes your listening habits. Meaning for instance that you listen less to Vinyl ?

Bert that is a difficult question to answer at this stage because the ND555 is a new source and I am enjoying the amazing way it presents my music afresh, therefore I am listening to mainly digital at the moment (although still buying vinyl). It will be interesting to see say in 12 months time what the balance is between vinyl and digital is. My guess is that I will still be enjoying both mediums but I will be listening to more digital than I used to on CD.

Michael posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

Michael posted:

I have a top spec LP12 Ekos SE Kandid & Keel and I agree that the ND555 has narrowed the gap by a fair margin,  compared to my previous CD555. I would never part with my large collection of vinyl though (being in my 70s and having loved it all my life) because it has that magic and I still enjoy the ritual of playing a record. I now feel that I have the best of both worlds and digital replay has never sounded better in my system.

Michael do you think it changes your listening habits. Meaning for instance that you listen less to Vinyl ?

Bert that is a difficult question to answer at this stage because the ND555 is a new source and I am enjoying the amazing way it presents my music afresh, therefore I am listening to mainly digital at the moment (although still buying vinyl). It will be interesting to see say in 12 months time what the balance is between vinyl and digital is. My guess is that I will still be enjoying both mediums but I will be listening to more digital than I used to on CD.

And bear in mind that CDs are significantly cheaper than vinyl. It's far easier to take a punt on a £5 CD than the same on vinyl for £20. If you prefer vinyl that much then you could always check it out on CD, then if you like it, buy the vinyl as well.

However ... some of the older CD's are phenomenally expensive I tried buying an old Van Morrison CD's from mid to late 80's ........ I also noticed availability and pricing pre 2000 is changing .......  

Certain very popular Artists older releases are collector items just for that sake, and not for any yet dawning realization that they mostly also captured the best SQ recording too. While many still believe 'new is better' and Remasters are better and putting any master into a nice HiDef new wrapper automatically improves it, then the cost of most SH CD material is still good and it is still the time to acquire your own copies, after you prove to yourself - or not - they are worth the effort.

It was many years ago that people on this Forum took me aside to a secret place and revealed this open-secret to me by playing some early CDs and we compared to later re-issues and re-masters. The difference was so awful it deeply saddened me at the time at the 'reverse-progress' that was being both made and enforced onto new material. One could almost believe the elimination of all life and vitality from music was some goal of a dark power - but I think it is human nature as usual.

Early digital replay devices were not that good - some were but most were not. Wide dynamic-range CDs sounded 'thin and nasty' - Remastered ones compressed that into a nice warm friendlier sound for a lot of people - most of humanity in fact, so it was done for the right reasons.

Then only when I got my first excellent CD player CD555 did I find that all the awful old thin CDs were now top-notch dynamic music full of life - and the Remasters were cloying over-heavy lifeless porridge by comparison. People ahead of me in this awareness told me 'Yes my son - it has always been known by us' to my bewildered expression as this unwelcome truth sunk-in. It still has not for most people - and that is in fact good for those that want lower prices for the earlier CDs.

Facts - to me - were in and I could decide to ignore it or go with them, so I chose the latter and there lays most great music in the older simple recordings.

Hi-Def - as I am now exploring - is to be taken with care. I'm hearing in great detail Mastering messes washing and surging digital remaster artifacts over the top of a lot of music as a new coherent and to me unpleasant added noise. I compare to the ripped early CD and it is clean and dynamic and musical - the 192/24bit master version is just not as good - in fact it sounds so messed-up that I wonder what they are listening to this on when remastering before releasing in a HiDef format.

There are great exceptions - Fleetwood Mac seems one so far, but I'll not say any others yet as they are very mixed and a lot of other popular bands and Artists remastered HiDef work is, to put it kindly 'not that good'.

But on excellent recordings be it on old CD rips or some good modern material the ND555 is really excellent at letting you have all the music there - timing information is especially well rendered.

DB.

Thanks Drake ........ I remember hearing American Pie ........ on a fairly early LP it sounded really good - I have been searching ever since for a digital copy that captures the life and verve ....... of that recording. sadly the CD is dire - and the hi res 192 little better...... I guess the solution is old vinyl for that one.

As an asside there is a worrying trend to grunge up modern recordings giving them a false crackle of even deliberate distortion. I remember hearing Jake Bug live on Hootenanny - one new year he sung Lightening Bolt (I believe it is on Youtube)...... it was stunning .... the camera panned the audience - and they were equally shocked........ I immediately bought the CD ......... what a disappointment - the recording was ruined......... by crackles distortion and compression....

It is just my experience and perspective I share. Generally I'm pleased a lot of people find and report otherwise with far better experiences of both remasters and Hi-Def. I think Hi-Def can be really good and better if the Mastering is done well and the musical material is, of course, to taste.

There is a bit of a tendency for more modern Artists to work to what they hear currently 'out there' in how music is mostly rendered and the music is made to 'fit' that constraint, so it just does not exploit any wide dynamic range and fresh immediacy in recording as that is over-laid with all the modern tweaks to make the final 'product'.

This is the real problem IMO. Music as a 'product' for consumption rather than an art-form with its own appeal. If the remasters were done with the same care as renovations of works of art are done then things would go better - but the original music people liked is treated mostly with contempt and 'improved'. Until this attitude changes and remastering Engineers don't feel they have to use every new toy available and play with the original material things will not improve I think - much.

But the good news is that there is a lot of good HQ low-cost music out there to be had - and in some genres, like Classical and Jazz for example things are a lot better and HiDef really rolls well with this. Shame most of my tastes are in the areas most messed with, but as said, once you know you can get good material - not always but mostly.

I generally pay a few pounds for most CDs and if I really want it £10 or thereabouts - and if I really, really want it £20 or thereabouts. When people are wanting £30+ they can keep it. Some material is still only available in quality on Vinyl and I need to arrange to capture that in HiDef at some point.

DB.

Richieroo posted:

As an asside there is a worrying trend to grunge up modern recordings giving them a false crackle of even deliberate distortion.

With all due respect I have no idea what you're talking about.  "Deliberate distortion?" "False crackle?"

Yes, there was a dark period in cd mastering known affectionately (or not) the "loudness wars" era.  That style of mastering certainly has gone out of style in the mainstream.  There are many fine fine digital sources these days. There are trustworthy sources of well-produced recordings.

There are a number of good online sources and forums dedicated to identifying great modern recordings and remasterings.  I might suggest checking those out.  Yes, as in all things, some research will pay off, as over the years so many recordings have been (re)released so many times.  

There are various trip hop albums that have the crackle sound, like old vinyl, and distortion is very common, but then it’s an effect that is widely used. You only have to look at the array of pedals used by guitarists playing live. 

hungryhalibut posted:

There are various trip hop albums that have the crackle sound, like old vinyl, and distortion is very common, but then it’s an effect that is widely used. You only have to look at the array of pedals used by guitarists playing live. 

I listened to Bon Iver -- 22, A Million yesterday.  Great crackle in that one.  I'd say it's worth one listen but probably not a second . . . But it's crackle as intended.

Richieroo posted:

Given that - Naim electronics take a good while to settle in ....... I think it very wise of Naim to hold back ..... until a review unit is fully bedded in ......... with about 6 months under its belt......

Naim can not provide enough ND555 units for all the demand anyway . So no rush in getting a review! But yeah at least two months of continuous use before letting a reviewer have it for listening tests ! 

Run-in on week five is going well. A few little bumps of dullness but only brief.
Presently very clear, smooth and dynamic presentation - superb on piano music at the moment - really puts it in the room, vibrant and clear tone reproduction with clean darkness between the percussion of the notes while retaining all room acoustic reverb. Some music in particular really needs the timing done well or it loses the information connection to the listener and the ND555 does this so well - I am continually impressed with it.

DB.

I will listen to Seekers of the Truth. (But can we find the truth without a 555?) I was born in the American Hospital in Paris on the same day Gurdijieff died there...

I thought it an interesting title - and I got it today and just ripped it and listening to it first time and what I was just listening too.
I also have the old recording played by De Hartmann that is rendered well too and has something different, as he knew G. as a pupil.

G. had access to a range of archaic ancient music which I find interesting - and it was interesting the ND555 renders it so well.
You can find the truth in other ways and the ND555 is not necessary - but adds more immediacy to stuff like this for me. Others may differ!

DB.

Having just caught up a few days with this thread, I was going to say something about delivery times.  But then I thought I better not, other than the fact that there have been two problems I've heard about - the lack of burndies and the low pass rate of anodised cases.  The first might be attributed to bad production planning,  the cases - undoubtedly beyond Naim's control.

So having said nothing about delivery times, what I would wish to comment upon is the apparent lack of information being given by Naim to their dealers.  Assuming dealers are not keeping secrets from their customers,  I'm seeing a great big black hole** when it comes to telling dealers what's going on at the factory.

In this day of electronic communications and advanced production scheduling systems, I can't help wonder whether there's a lot of room for improvement in the management systems that drive our favourite audio manufacturer.

Roger

** "black hole" - almost as inky black as the silence between tracks with my ND555

Roger, I think some dealers, like mine, were ringing Naim every day. Others may not have tried that hard to keep in contact. Ultimately they do appear to be sticking to who ordered first. My dealer ordered based on his experience of his customers, he ordered quite a few. So when I decided belatedly to take the plunge, mine had been ordered several weeks before. Unfortunately others are ordering and joining the back of the queue. I wonder if people that were not bothered with a 500 series finish could expedite their orders by accepting the “classic” finish, the 555 ps until recently was offered in both finishes. Lucky you did not mention delivery times????

Hi everyone, I have been useing Naim for 45 odd years obviously lm a big fan and l have spent a small fortune on gear,my mates think l’m bonkers,but can’t help thinking when they announced the release of the ND555 they must have known ther would be a high demand and had every thing in place so why are custermers still waiting 4 months like l have,lasso had a problem l needed some advice on and found the person l Spock to very obnoxious.regards bob.

Bob, I understand your frustration here, but please note my last post on this to you - only your dealer has the real answer here.

As to the general issue of unforeseen delays, there can always be production difficulties with any product. Parts supply can be a real issue, particularly where such a critical part is failing to meet Naim's exacting standards.  On some parts such as the 500 series covers, it's just impossible to make adequate contingencies when things go wrong.

Bob, getting back to your own wait for your unit, as I say, Naim are usually very good at ensuring allocations are fair. I can only guess that there may be some other issue at play here. If you feel you aren't getting any answers then by all means please contact Naim directly.

Thanks DB!.

I have removed some of the last posts.  Please could members stick to the topic of the thread, which, if you need reminding from time to time, is all about the performance of the ND555.  Thank you.

My post which was removed related to the performance of the ND555 and the inability of the support team to resolve an issue affecting access to files ripped to a NAS which I know would have been resolved by a previous incumbent.

Jonn posted:

My post which was removed related to the performance of the ND555 and the inability of the support team to resolve an issue affecting access to files ripped to a NAS which I know would have been resolved by a previous incumbent.

Then I apologise got you Jonn, as it didn't seem to relate to anything specific to the ND555.

Jonn posted:

My post which was removed related to the performance of the ND555 and the inability of the support team to resolve an issue affecting access to files ripped to a NAS which I know would have been resolved by a previous incumbent.

Did you ask for advice in the forum? Sorry if I missed it. I only skim.

Jonn, please do ask on the forum if you haven't already. We'll all try to help you out if we can. But try to make it a separate thread in the Streaming Audio room. 

Just an observation the ND555 when using Roon ........ it will keep the display off all the time (when the tick placed in the menu) - when on random play. When you select a new album the image pops up - great. However, with the zigbee remote if you jog to the next track - it will illuminate again - in fact almost any input on the zigbee institutes an image on. I am really happy with the display off in Roon.