ND555 Impressions

The Strat (Fender) posted:

DB,

........ ND555 ....... I’ve heard it 3 times with Titan 808s, the latest Utopias and Dynaudio Confidence.   On all 3 occasions whilst it’s capabilities were apparent I was struck by how bright it was to the point with a couple of tracks with the Dynas of being unlistenable.  

....... CD555 and how I’ve always felt the sheer energy and depth of whatever was being played without any misgivings.

 

Hi Lindsay,

Like you I will never be buying one of these, however at my demo, also into Titans, I was struck by how balanced the sound was with a lack of digital tension, by which I mean ME being tense, as I usually am whenever I have heard the NDS.

The CD555 is an interesting beast. I have heard it and been unimpressed, but then I heard it in MDS's system with one PS555 and now I am a fan.

Context I suppose.

M

Bob green posted:

Re Nd555,13 grand,just hope l’m not letting my self in for a load of aggro?.

When I gather all of the data, it appears to me that you'd be letting yourself in for a load of musical enjoyment.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

nigelb posted:

Yes, it is finding the right balance of 'set-up attention to detail' and the return you get for the effort/expense in SQ. That balance will be diiferent for each of us.

At the Audio East Show I has a peek around the back of the Fraim of 500 system in the Dynaudio room and noticed they had 'shrouded' all the Burndies with foam pipe insulation tubing. I thought that was a rather neat, inexpensive and effective way of keeping the Burndies away from other cables, each other, and the floor. Never seen that before.

 

Yes I noticed that. Pity it still sounded awful - imo.  

On my first visit to the Dynaudio room on the Friday, I would agree with your assessment of the SQ. That system did however improve rather dramatically over that day, to these ears anyway, unless my mood was softening (I didn't touch a drop all day either)! How much this was to do with the ND555 or Dynaudios settling in, or indeed other factors, I can't tell.

Just a shame I missed you Lindsay and we could have chatted about it.

nigelb posted:

Yes, it is finding the right balance of 'set-up attention to detail' and the return you get for the effort/expense in SQ. That balance will be diiferent for each of us.

At the Audio East Show I has a peek around the back of the Fraim of 500 system in the Dynaudio room and noticed they had 'shrouded' all the Burndies with foam pipe insulation tubing. I thought that was a rather neat, inexpensive and effective way of keeping the Burndies away from other cables, each other, and the floor. Never seen that before.

 

Nigel, I've always wondered why something like this has not been mentioned in the past taking into the account of the importance of Burndy cable installation would be interesting to hear Naim's uptake on this.

hungryhalibut posted:

Darke Bear posted:

Without the empty shelves it sounds poor. With no glass-loading also poor.

DB - this is what prompted my observation - the categoric assertion that without empty shelves it sounds poor. Yet in your more recent post you say it works ok in ‘any place’. Working ok and poor are diametrically opposed. Maybe that backs up the idea that how things sound, and indeed how we feel about them, changes with our mood, ears, weather, whatever. 

I meant poor with respect to having empty shelves.
A relative assessment in context of my system and not a general edict for all was meant.
I think I just was sloppy in not spelling it out clearly enough after two immediate sarcastic posts after I posted my picture on my ND555 in-situ with dust and all. I've learned a lesson and it is approaching the time of the year for me to hibernate soon, so there may be fewer things from me to trouble people. Sometimes I do wonder what is the point - but occasionally I see there is one so I continue.

DB.

Well I certainly hope you keep posting DB, as I find your insights rather fascinating and I have benefitted directly from some of your findings.

I also feel that with a supremely revealing system such as yours, the benefit of some of these tweaks will be 'amplified'. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Nice to meet you, although only very briefly, at the Show on Friday.

I am human - sometimes... Good to meet you too!

DB.

DB, thanks for explaining, now it makes sense. One of the best things about the Forum is helping each other to get the best from what they have. It’s great you share your findings, which people can do with as they wish. I hope you didn’t think I was being critical, simply confused. But you do need to dust!!! But all those shelves.... I actually enjoy cleaning, which probably helps. 

DB--keep posting.  This is how we (I) learn.  Its a complex subject and the better we experiment and try, the better it gets.  As long as we all enjoy the music, that's the goal. 

I really enjoy your observations.  Its been Bert's and your Posts that drove me to order my ND555 over here across the pond.  Promised this month.  Can't wait.  I was also influenced by all the positive comments from the many owners, and the lack of any negative comments. 

Clear Skies

DB , do please keeep posting your thoughts.

I read this Forum quit regularly as Naim demo. opportunities where I live is very, very limited. Almost zero chances of listening  to anything above a middle of the Classic Series system. 

Although I will most likely never be able to afford a ND555,thisdoes lead into discussions on NDX2 etc. that I perhaps can aspire to reach.

hungryhalibut posted:

...But you do need to dust!!! But all those shelves.... I actually enjoy cleaning, which probably helps. 

Yes I know - the flash makes it look worse, or reveals how bad it gets depending on your take.
It was a rather spontaneous pic and post with not careful prep to get the best pic. I was happy it was sounding good and it was meant as a general 'getting along nicely after some run-in bumps' post - I shall take heed in future to dust more - and hopefully not listen less.

I am not a cleaning person - the house is there to serve me and not the other way around. This gets me into trouble - not that I mind, but I don't overly-wish to offend.

DB.

I think sometimes we are in danger of losing sight of the fact that assessment of equipment comes down to a lot of factors a fair proportion of which are personally subjective so for example, system, room, musical tastes, mood etc. The old saying, one mans meat is another mans poison is apt here.

As an example, I home demoed a CD555 a couple of times and just did not see a significant improvement on the CDS3 I had at the time. Perhaps even more controversially, I have just never got the LP12. To me it is overly warm and fuzzy and the Roksan Xerxes has always bettered it to my ears. Haven't heard the modern iterations mind you.

To illustrate, the 3 best upgrades (NB not included passive to active as that is more a sea change than an upgrade) I think I have made in my time are:

1. 252 > 552

2. NDS > ND555

3. Hi Line > Super Lumina

Whilst I don't think I have heard many dispute the first, I bet there are a few that might take issue with the other two but that's just the way it is.

Oh and a final personal view, for anything other than leisure time enjoyment, show demonstrations are a total waste of time!

Yes, coming to your last conclusion too. But I have enjoyed demo/ shows for other reasons like music, friends etc. I heard some music that I liked that I would never have heard, so time well spent. Also perhaps just a chance peek at kit I would not normally hear. Recently the Chord Etude impressed as did the Primare pre/ amps.....never likely to buy , but pleasant leisure time listening.

Our ND555 sounds transparent, effortless  and communicative.  A little bright at first but it soon settled down. It went straight into the rack where the NDS came out. The installer tightened up the Fraim and redressed some cables, as you would expect for a partial rack break down. No other special adjustments were made.

We were not interested in hearing it in unknown systems in strange rooms. It was auditioned in the lounge. This is the oily audition worth doing. If we couldn't have got a home demo we would not have bought it, no matter how many times we heard it at the dealer. I would strongly advise anyone who can't do a home demo to keep their hands in their pockets.

I've heard plenty of Naim kit which didn't impress me. If it don't sound right, keep looking or stick.

But each to their own when all said and done.

Darke Bear posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Darke Bear posted:

Without the empty shelves it sounds poor. With no glass-loading also poor.

DB - this is what prompted my observation - the categoric assertion that without empty shelves it sounds poor. Yet in your more recent post you say it works ok in ‘any place’. Working ok and poor are diametrically opposed. Maybe that backs up the idea that how things sound, and indeed how we feel about them, changes with our mood, ears, weather, whatever. 

I meant poor with respect to having empty shelves.
A relative assessment in context of my system and not a general edict for all was meant.
I think I just was sloppy in not spelling it out clearly enough after two immediate sarcastic posts after I posted my picture on my ND555 in-situ with dust and all. I've learned a lesson and it is approaching the time of the year for me to hibernate soon, so there may be fewer things from me to trouble people. Sometimes I do wonder what is the point - but occasionally I see there is one so I continue.

DB.

i think it is possible to criticize a set up without offending someone.  I respect you DB,  enjoy your numerous posts, attention to details and trying to obtain the best sound as possible in a super great system.   But i can’t share the fact of having a 3 shelves fraim with 2 empty shelves.  I find it a bit exaggerated.   But maybe i am wrong and if i had your system, perhaps i would have finally done that.   

French Rooster posted:

Darke Bear posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Darke Bear posted:

Without the empty shelves it sounds poor. With no glass-loading also poor.

DB - this is what prompted my observation - the categoric assertion that without empty shelves it sounds poor. Yet in your more recent post you say it works ok in ‘any place’. Working ok and poor are diametrically opposed. Maybe that backs up the idea that how things sound, and indeed how we feel about them, changes with our mood, ears, weather, whatever. 

I meant poor with respect to having empty shelves.
A relative assessment in context of my system and not a general edict for all was meant.
I think I just was sloppy in not spelling it out clearly enough after two immediate sarcastic posts after I posted my picture on my ND555 in-situ with dust and all. I've learned a lesson and it is approaching the time of the year for me to hibernate soon, so there may be fewer things from me to trouble people. Sometimes I do wonder what is the point - but occasionally I see there is one so I continue.

DB.

i think it is possible to criticize a set up without offending someone.  I respect you DB,  enjoy your numerous posts, attention to details and trying to obtain the best sound as possible in a super great system.   But i can’t share the fact of having a 3 shelves fraim with 2 empty shelves.  I find it a bit exaggerated.   But maybe i am wrong and if i had your system, perhaps i would have finally done that.   

Then don't do it.  I have an empty shelf under my 552 and the CD55 is above that on a high shelf to create a gap. I could hear and liked the difference and went with it.

As for exaggerated. All of us exaggerate in spending what we do on hi-fi.

Wow - okay.  I certainly was not out to criticise DB, or anyone else for that matter.  Merely stating an opinion.  So apologies.

DB  please don’t hibernate.   You’ll have too much to catch up on when you wake up.  

Regards,

Lindsay

Darke Bear posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

...But you do need to dust!!! But all those shelves.... I actually enjoy cleaning, which probably helps. 

Yes I know - the flash makes it look worse, or reveals how bad it gets depending on your take.
It was a rather spontaneous pic and post with not careful prep to get the best pic. I was happy it was sounding good and it was meant as a general 'getting along nicely after some run-in bumps' post - I shall take heed in future to dust more - and hopefully not listen less.

I am not a cleaning person - the house is there to serve me and not the other way around. This gets me into trouble - not that I mind, but I don't overly-wish to offend.

DB.

I'm next up with a scathing criticism Mr Bear. You call those few tiny specks dust? Phah! That's not a proper dust coating, it's a pathetic excuse for dust! You should be ashamed... 

Michael_B. posted:

French Rooster posted:

Darke Bear posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Darke Bear posted:

Without the empty shelves it sounds poor. With no glass-loading also poor.

DB - this is what prompted my observation - the categoric assertion that without empty shelves it sounds poor. Yet in your more recent post you say it works ok in ‘any place’. Working ok and poor are diametrically opposed. Maybe that backs up the idea that how things sound, and indeed how we feel about them, changes with our mood, ears, weather, whatever. 

I meant poor with respect to having empty shelves.
A relative assessment in context of my system and not a general edict for all was meant.
I think I just was sloppy in not spelling it out clearly enough after two immediate sarcastic posts after I posted my picture on my ND555 in-situ with dust and all. I've learned a lesson and it is approaching the time of the year for me to hibernate soon, so there may be fewer things from me to trouble people. Sometimes I do wonder what is the point - but occasionally I see there is one so I continue.

DB.

i think it is possible to criticize a set up without offending someone.  I respect you DB,  enjoy your numerous posts, attention to details and trying to obtain the best sound as possible in a super great system.   But i can’t share the fact of having a 3 shelves fraim with 2 empty shelves.  I find it a bit exaggerated.   But maybe i am wrong and if i had your system, perhaps i would have finally done that.   

Then don't do it.  I have an empty shelf under my 552 and the CD55 is above that on a high shelf to create a gap. I could hear and liked the difference and went with it.

 

As for exaggerated. All of us exaggerate in spending what we do on hi-fi.

Sorry, can’t agree with you. It is a forum and everybody can express his opinion.  Opinions can’t be all positive...

French Rooster posted:

Michael_B. posted:

French Rooster posted:

Darke Bear posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Darke Bear posted:

Without the empty shelves it sounds poor. With no glass-loading also poor.

DB - this is what prompted my observation - the categoric assertion that without empty shelves it sounds poor. Yet in your more recent post you say it works ok in ‘any place’. Working ok and poor are diametrically opposed. Maybe that backs up the idea that how things sound, and indeed how we feel about them, changes with our mood, ears, weather, whatever. 

I meant poor with respect to having empty shelves.
A relative assessment in context of my system and not a general edict for all was meant.
I think I just was sloppy in not spelling it out clearly enough after two immediate sarcastic posts after I posted my picture on my ND555 in-situ with dust and all. I've learned a lesson and it is approaching the time of the year for me to hibernate soon, so there may be fewer things from me to trouble people. Sometimes I do wonder what is the point - but occasionally I see there is one so I continue.

DB.

i think it is possible to criticize a set up without offending someone.  I respect you DB,  enjoy your numerous posts, attention to details and trying to obtain the best sound as possible in a super great system.   But i can’t share the fact of having a 3 shelves fraim with 2 empty shelves.  I find it a bit exaggerated.   But maybe i am wrong and if i had your system, perhaps i would have finally done that.   

Then don't do it.  I have an empty shelf under my 552 and the CD55 is above that on a high shelf to create a gap. I could hear and liked the difference and went with it.

 

As for exaggerated. All of us exaggerate in spending what we do on hi-fi.

Sorry, can’t agree with you. It is a forum and everybody can express his opinion.  Opinions can’t be all positive...

Sure. But it helps when they are based on fact.

If I'd thought the 'empty-shelf' in my pic would upset so much I would not have posted. I won't say something that is not what I experience to please any dogmas - but we are probably going off-topic of ND555 here. I think that attention of how sources are installed was long accepted to be important - some people put multiple-shelves under their turntables and nobody says a thing, but somehow it makes no difference with the ND555? Why did Naim put a suspended sub-chassis inside if vibration is no big deal? And no further isolation makes a difference - the sub-chassis is 100% effective? Not what I hear, it all is cumulative and you stop when you get an enjoyable end-result was my position.

I'm very happy to discuss anything and describe why I did what I did, but if somebody does not like it and will not try it but just does not like the fact it unsettles their world-view then best just ignore what I've said and be happy you are right and need not open your mind. The proof in all these things is to try them. I 'knew' special HiFi mains cables were a silly idea that would make no difference until it was demonstrated to me - I tried them - and I now use them. The same with all other 'impossible' things.

The world is a much more fun and interesting place when you let yourself experience and learn new things.
I tend to hibernate a bit this time of year due to many things, but I won't deliberately do so.

DB.

My "brain" stack of Fraim consists of a bottom empty shelf, to get the NAP 300 Burndies off the floor, then another empty shelf above the 300 head unit, with next, the ND 555, and last of all, a tall shelf with the NAC 552.

I've experimented over the years, and have always ended up with some breathing space between power amp, source and pre-amp.

When my dealer came over to install the ND 555, he confirmed that it was good to see this spacing between the black boxes, and that they had arrived at the same conclusion years ago.

it may seem to some that this outlay on Fraim is excessive, but my ears are telling me that it is worth it.

I agree with you DB,l have tried a few things like putting the PS for the 500 on the top shelf so it raises the Burndy leads off the floor  that was a good move also creating a gap between the552 and th NDS,another good move,l sometimes moan about all this but it works IMO.

Darke Bear posted:

If I'd thought the 'empty-shelf' in my pic would upset so much I would not have posted. I won't say something that is not what I experience to please any dogmas - but we are probably going off-topic of ND555 here. I think that attention of how sources are installed was long accepted to be important - some people put multiple-shelves under their turntables and nobody says a thing, but somehow it makes no difference with the ND555? Why did Naim put a suspended sub-chassis inside if vibration is no big deal? And no further isolation makes a difference - the sub-chassis is 100% effective? Not what I hear, it all is cumulative and you stop when you get an enjoyable end-result was my position.

I'm very happy to discuss anything and describe why I did what I did, but if somebody does not like it and will not try it but just does not like the fact it unsettles their world-view then best just ignore what I've said and be happy you are right and need not open your mind. The proof in all these things is to try them. I 'knew' special HiFi mains cables were a silly idea that would make no difference until it was demonstrated to me - I tried them - and I now use them. The same with all other 'impossible' things.

The world is a much more fun and interesting place when you let yourself experience and learn new things.
I tend to hibernate a bit this time of year due to many things, but I won't deliberately do so.

DB.

if I may offer a suggestion to you DB, keep posting your comments and findings. Simply ignore those who 'do not like' your findings in your room/system. I don't actually believe its worth you getting worked up about folks making negative comments about the attention to detail that your system seems to demand. Such is the nature of 'forums'.

Its very unlikely that I would ever be able to have my much humbler NDS on its own fraim - for one, my office is not big enough -- but for another -- I would have difficulty nailing down what specific configuration works - without spending a lot of time (old age, etc etc)...

enjoy/ken

in this logic, why not imagine one component per rack with 3 shelves.   In an active 500 serie system it could give about 15 naim racks with 30 empty shelves.....

Why not imagine listening to music only if the temperature of the room is 21,348 C, and only after 9 pm because the mains are better running, and glass shelves of 2,87 mn better sounding than 2,8...... and of course 5 meters of chord music ethernet cable wired into the ipad.....