ND555 Impressions

French Rooster posted:

Célibataire or vieux garçon.  Thanks Yeti42.    Dust doesn’t disturb me, it’s more the concept of empty shelves with glass that looks a bit ridiculous.   I would buy a better rack than the fraim and would use all the shelves.   Naim rack can’t be the only one.   Hrs, critical mass, Stillpoints Ess, Artesania....    These racks are among the best.  One of these racks costs around the same as 2 naim racks, but i can be full of components.....    The difficulty is to find a synergy with naim components and naim sound.  But i hardly believe that the naim rack is the only one possibility.

 There are lots of good racks, but the question of empty shelves has nothing to do with the rack’s design: it’s a matter of creating distance between certain of the most sensitive black boxes and/or the burndies and the ground. That’s also why people split their rack into so-called brawn (PC) and brain racks.

Yeah ... I did not get all those shelves .......... so they are simply used as spacers..... I thought initially they were being used as some sort of sub sonic vibration filter....... a bit like a capacitor...

Michael_B. posted:

French Rooster posted:

Célibataire or vieux garçon.  Thanks Yeti42.    Dust doesn’t disturb me, it’s more the concept of empty shelves with glass that looks a bit ridiculous.   I would buy a better rack than the fraim and would use all the shelves.   Naim rack can’t be the only one.   Hrs, critical mass, Stillpoints Ess, Artesania....    These racks are among the best.  One of these racks costs around the same as 2 naim racks, but i can be full of components.....    The difficulty is to find a synergy with naim components and naim sound.  But i hardly believe that the naim rack is the only one possibility.

 There are lots of good racks, but the question of empty shelves has nothing to do with the rack’s design: it’s a matter of creating distance between certain of the most sensitive black boxes and/or the burndies and the ground. That’s also why people split their rack into so-called brawn (PC) and brain racks.

Surely if the rack is able to prevent transmission of any vibration between components, there is no need for any additional space in the shape of empty racks, or seperate stacks? Logic dictates the Fraim must be deficient in this respect if extra space brings about such an improvement. Given my own experience with Stillpoints, I can only imagine what their rack would bring to the party!

French Rooster posted:

Célibataire or vieux garçon.  Thanks Yeti42. 

Or in this case, possibly a divorcé.

Tim, as Michael explained above it’s about getting space between components. This isn’t about vibration, but rather about electromagnetic radiation - I think that’s what it’s called. When I had a CDS3 and a 552, I had the CDS3 on the top, then a gap, then the 552, another gap and then the 300 head unit. There was a clear difference with air around the 552. This applies whether one uses Fraim, Quadraspire or any other rack. It’s not a deficiency in anything, just simple physics. 

Non - sensical to me ........ I bet that whole thing rings like a bell - tubular racking = tubular bells...........which I would have thought an issue as non of that gear is spring suspended.........

Rather than simply dismissing things, why not try it for yourself. An open mind can bring rewards but if you mind remains closed you will never know. 

Ok I will try driving my nova stacked 6 high - it might be more comfortable.....and quieter.........ha ha...ok good point HH.... however, it does seem/look really weird

Richieroo posted:

Ok I will try driving my nova stacked 6 high - it might be more comfortable.....and quieter.........ha ha...ok good point HH.... however, it does seem/look really weird

Richie, I think there may be some crossed wires here. I’m assuming that your looking at the pics of Mana systems when you talk of Tubular Bell ringing and not DB’s 2 empty Fraim shelves?

besides, if the ringing is occurring because it’s dissipating energy that would otherwise be transferred to the sensitive electronics, then it can be a good thing. As with the design of our pinging, ringing Naim component cases of course..

HH’s pic made me laugh, especially the Isobariks up at that level. Presumably to be listened to seated at the top of a step ladder? One way of solving troublesome floor reflections I guess! 

Timmo1341 posted:

Michael_B. posted:

French Rooster posted:

Célibataire or vieux garçon.  Thanks Yeti42.    Dust doesn’t disturb me, it’s more the concept of empty shelves with glass that looks a bit ridiculous.   I would buy a better rack than the fraim and would use all the shelves.   Naim rack can’t be the only one.   Hrs, critical mass, Stillpoints Ess, Artesania....    These racks are among the best.  One of these racks costs around the same as 2 naim racks, but i can be full of components.....    The difficulty is to find a synergy with naim components and naim sound.  But i hardly believe that the naim rack is the only one possibility.

 There are lots of good racks, but the question of empty shelves has nothing to do with the rack’s design: it’s a matter of creating distance between certain of the most sensitive black boxes and/or the burndies and the ground. That’s also why people split their rack into so-called brawn (PC) and brain racks.

Surely if the rack is able to prevent transmission of any vibration between components, there is no need for any additional space in the shape of empty racks, or seperate stacks? Logic dictates the Fraim must be deficient in this respect if extra space brings about such an improvement. Given my own experience with Stillpoints, I can only imagine what their rack would bring to the party!

exactly Tmmo1341, the Fraim must be a bit deficient if it’s better to let empty shelves.  As for space for burndys, there are racks with adjustable spaces....   It’s a bit curious that all naim users are only considering naim racks. 

Some tried finite elemente, with no great results.  But there are a lot more.

ChrisSU posted:

French Rooster posted:

Célibataire or vieux garçon.  Thanks Yeti42. 

Or in this case, possibly a divorcé.

to marry again, he would have to throw away some shelves.....

French Rooster posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Michael_B. posted:

French Rooster posted:

Célibataire or vieux garçon.  Thanks Yeti42.    Dust doesn’t disturb me, it’s more the concept of empty shelves with glass that looks a bit ridiculous.   I would buy a better rack than the fraim and would use all the shelves.   Naim rack can’t be the only one.   Hrs, critical mass, Stillpoints Ess, Artesania....    These racks are among the best.  One of these racks costs around the same as 2 naim racks, but i can be full of components.....    The difficulty is to find a synergy with naim components and naim sound.  But i hardly believe that the naim rack is the only one possibility.

 There are lots of good racks, but the question of empty shelves has nothing to do with the rack’s design: it’s a matter of creating distance between certain of the most sensitive black boxes and/or the burndies and the ground. That’s also why people split their rack into so-called brawn (PC) and brain racks.

Surely if the rack is able to prevent transmission of any vibration between components, there is no need for any additional space in the shape of empty racks, or seperate stacks? Logic dictates the Fraim must be deficient in this respect if extra space brings about such an improvement. Given my own experience with Stillpoints, I can only imagine what their rack would bring to the party!

exactly Tmmo1341, the Fraim must be a bit deficient if it’s better to let empty shelves.  As for space for burndys, there are racks with adjustable spaces....   It’s a bit curious that all naim users are only considering naim racks. 

Some tried finite elemente, with no great results.  But there are a lot more.

It's to raise the burndy off the floor not provide space for on or behind the rack. 

hungryhalibut posted:

Tim, as Michael explained above it’s about getting space between components. This isn’t about vibration, but rather about electromagnetic radiation - I think that’s what it’s called. When I had a CDS3 and a 552, I had the CDS3 on the top, then a gap, then the 552, another gap and then the 300 head unit. There was a clear difference with air around the 552. This applies whether one uses Fraim, Quadraspire or any other rack. It’s not a deficiency in anything, just simple physics. 

Presumably, as I see no empty shelves in your Fraim, this only applies to high end Reference level components (although, as I recall, you had an empty shelf in your Quadraspire setup)?

It’s all a compromise. The guy selling the Fraim had only a base and three levels, so it’s a case of making the best of it. Certainly the 272 is less sensitive than something like an NDS or a 252, or better, but it still benefits. The system on the Fraim without spaces sounds better than it did with spaces on the Quadraspire, so it’s fine for me. 

Michael_B. posted:

French Rooster posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Michael_B. posted:

French Rooster posted:

Célibataire or vieux garçon.  Thanks Yeti42.    Dust doesn’t disturb me, it’s more the concept of empty shelves with glass that looks a bit ridiculous.   I would buy a better rack than the fraim and would use all the shelves.   Naim rack can’t be the only one.   Hrs, critical mass, Stillpoints Ess, Artesania....    These racks are among the best.  One of these racks costs around the same as 2 naim racks, but i can be full of components.....    The difficulty is to find a synergy with naim components and naim sound.  But i hardly believe that the naim rack is the only one possibility.

 There are lots of good racks, but the question of empty shelves has nothing to do with the rack’s design: it’s a matter of creating distance between certain of the most sensitive black boxes and/or the burndies and the ground. That’s also why people split their rack into so-called brawn (PC) and brain racks.

Surely if the rack is able to prevent transmission of any vibration between components, there is no need for any additional space in the shape of empty racks, or seperate stacks? Logic dictates the Fraim must be deficient in this respect if extra space brings about such an improvement. Given my own experience with Stillpoints, I can only imagine what their rack would bring to the party!

exactly Tmmo1341, the Fraim must be a bit deficient if it’s better to let empty shelves.  As for space for burndys, there are racks with adjustable spaces....   It’s a bit curious that all naim users are only considering naim racks. 

Some tried finite elemente, with no great results.  But there are a lot more.

It's to raise the burndy off the floor not provide space for on or behind the rack. 

i wanted to say space between each shelf, so the height.   Some high end racks have adjustable level of each shelf and it can raise the burndys.

Each level is also very well decoupled from vibrations but also radiations.   Take a look at hrs or stillpoints racks or critical mass,  the construction is well ahead of naim rack.  

French Rooster posted:

Michael_B. posted:

French Rooster posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Michael_B. posted:

French Rooster posted:

Célibataire or vieux garçon.  Thanks Yeti42.    Dust doesn’t disturb me, it’s more the concept of empty shelves with glass that looks a bit ridiculous.   I would buy a better rack than the fraim and would use all the shelves.   Naim rack can’t be the only one.   Hrs, critical mass, Stillpoints Ess, Artesania....    These racks are among the best.  One of these racks costs around the same as 2 naim racks, but i can be full of components.....    The difficulty is to find a synergy with naim components and naim sound.  But i hardly believe that the naim rack is the only one possibility.

 There are lots of good racks, but the question of empty shelves has nothing to do with the rack’s design: it’s a matter of creating distance between certain of the most sensitive black boxes and/or the burndies and the ground. That’s also why people split their rack into so-called brawn (PC) and brain racks.

Surely if the rack is able to prevent transmission of any vibration between components, there is no need for any additional space in the shape of empty racks, or seperate stacks? Logic dictates the Fraim must be deficient in this respect if extra space brings about such an improvement. Given my own experience with Stillpoints, I can only imagine what their rack would bring to the party!

exactly Tmmo1341, the Fraim must be a bit deficient if it’s better to let empty shelves.  As for space for burndys, there are racks with adjustable spaces....   It’s a bit curious that all naim users are only considering naim racks. 

Some tried finite elemente, with no great results.  But there are a lot more.

It's to raise the burndy off the floor not provide space for on or behind the rack. 

i wanted to say space between each shelf, so the height.   Some high end racks have adjustable level of each shelf and it can raise the burndys.

Each level is also very well decoupled from vibrations but also radiations.   Take a look at hrs or stillpoints racks or critical mass,  the construction is well ahead of naim rack.  

 

You can't decouple for EMR, but can shield from it - which looks ugly and limits ventilation. I did my auditioning when I bought the Fraim and I'm not a serial gear changer so have stuck with it. I also like the modularity of the Fraim.

i guess some racks are better shielding from EMR than other.     With empty shelves for naim rack,  i imagine that the glass shelves have no use.

French Rooster posted:

i guess some racks are better shielding from EMR than other.     With empty shelves for naim rack,  i imagine that the glass shelves have no use.

In the case of an extra shelf the shielding is simply the air

Michael_B. posted:

French Rooster posted:

i guess some racks are better shielding from EMR than other.     With empty shelves for naim rack,  i imagine that the glass shelves have no use.

In the case of an extra shelf the shielding is simply the air

in the case of , for example, the hrs srx signature rack, the shielding can be the hrs platforms and the height between each shelves?

HH my 272 was very sensitive to vibration and feedback ......... as there was no suspension. As soon as I put the 272 on a proper rack the sound was improved greatly...... 

I never said it wasn’t, and don’t understand the point you are trying to make. 

The point i am making in my findings .......... in the context of my system - it was ultra sensitive. Voices - especially female vocals were transformed.... I was shocked at how mircophonic it was........ your post kinda understates it a little......... but you do make the point ;-)

I said it seemed less sensitive to electromagnetic radiation, and therefore space between components. I said nothing about vibration whatsoever. 

Richieroo posted:

HH my 272 was very sensitive to vibration and feedback ......... as there was no suspension. As soon as I put the 272 on a proper rack the sound was improved greatly...... 

Interesting. I demo’ed my 272 with both Fraim & Hutter and noticed no difference whatsoever! When trying out my Stillpoints I took the opportunity to pop them under the 272 (also tried them under the 250 and the 555PS), and again found little, if any difference. It’s just as well I love the sound it produces on my home made shelving, which my kit obviously likes.

To get back to the subject of ND555 impressions, I thought after fourteen weeks I had come through the ups and downs of run in....... but..... yesterday we hit an all time low with the ND 555 sounding so bright almost to the point of being unlistenable..... or was it state of mind or the weather or whatever... I don't think so as Pam agreed with me. 

Today, however, it is sounding the best it ever has so it is forgiven for yesterday’s wobble.

What I really want to put across is that I know many of you new owners are a fair way behind me in terms of weeks of running in... and just be aware that these things will happen as DB has also so many times described, but as time goes by there is more consistency in replay. 

I am hopeful that yesterday was the final torrential downpour at the end of the storm. 

When it is really on song the ND555 is a truly amazing source.