ND555 Impressions

Hi Everyone,as good as the 252 is with a front end as good as the ND555 to get the best out of it l think it has to be a 552,other wise you might keep thinking am l getting the best out of it?.

@NigelB - Give a choice between the ND555 and the 552 I would choose the 552. 5 years down the road, I expect the ND555 to be superceded. The 552 less so.

Nigel is doubting since several weeks now, from what i read here.  He will very soon make a demo between nds/552 and nd555/252.   Perhaps the best is to decide himself after having heard the demo.  His ears will be the best advice.

[@mention:48872963983698699] You haven’t said anything about plans for your power amp. 

Phil

Back from walking 452 miles from Pamplona to Santiago de Compostela for robocap dot org dot uk. £4435 raised so far for equipment for our NHS

As someone that knows how good the 552 Pre is and how much outlay it took to improve on it with my S1 Pre I'd personally find the choice hard to make. It is a bit easier if digital is your only source and both items are being purchased at full price - then I'd go for the ND555; but if the 552 was SH in good condition and at a good price - and I had other sources to play then the 552 makes more sense.

There is a reason I spent a lot on the Pre as it really is the heart of the system. I financially bemoan the outlay for S1 Pre, but in terms of music quality on replay it cannot be replaced by a better source alone IMO in my own system. Now given I rate the 552 significantly above the 252 as really great as the latter is - in my 'final' system if 'crazy' Statement stuff is excluded then I will want the 552 eventually too.

But the ND555 is significantly better than NDS IMO and a well set-up and balanced 252-based system should really let it sing and you will not be missing the 552 there - just don't get a home-demo of it or it will spoil that nice state of mind.

...as a general rule only home-demo things you could consider purchasing, as otherwise you are just annoying yourself.

DB.

nigelb posted:

PCD, I note you and Gazza use the ND555 with a 252/SuperCapDR and it seems this pre amp has the transparency to convey the ND555's capabilities, although of course I accept a 552 would extract even more.

This is of interest to me as I currently have a 252DR fronted by NDS/555DR and am demoing separately ND555 and 552 at a dealer, each of these complemented by the source/pre amp in my system - see above.

And then I take ONE of them home.......

Hi Nigel,

You're faced with an almost impossible choice on the day of your demo, speaking as someone who had previously made the move from 252 to 552, and more recently from NDS to ND 555.

 Whichever option you choose, there's no doubt that the remaining outstanding upgrade will benefit hugely from your initial choice, and I can't really advise which should come first, as I can't "unhear" the 552, and imagine how the 252 will sound with the ND 555.

So, this post is of no help to you whatsoever,  ..................... still, it's a nice dilemma to have, and if I were you, I'd probably decide based on which choice is the most beneficial in terms of trade in values.

Certainly, my dealer made me "an offer he can't refuse" on my both my 552 and the NDS, which eased the pain considerably. 

nigelb posted:

It is just that the ND555 appears to be so revealing, I just need to be sure (as I can) that the 252DR isn't holding it back unduly.

Certainly the ND555 will have a lot more to show with a 552, or an S1 pre, than with the 252.  But even with my SN2 I never reached it's limit to show source differences from a bare Naim Dac, to adding an XPS2, to substituting NDS/555.  The 252/ND555 should give you more than 252/NDS; I'm quite certain it will. 

Whether that amount of more is more or less than the more that 552/NDS gives you . . . that's for your test and ears and emotions   And bank account

(And to add to apples vs. oranges, there are gently used 552's around . . . not so much with ND555's. Bang for the buck should be gently used.  Quite nice discounts vs. new are available.)

MangoMonkey posted:

@NigelB - Give a choice between the ND555 and the 552 I would choose the 552. 5 years down the road, I expect the ND555 to be superceded. The 552 less so.

That was exactly my thinking when I tried an NDX2/555 ps.....with 552, I can only lose £5k max, and another streamer will be along anyway. The difference was too big, the ND555/252 won easily, and I might not make another 5 years, life is too short. Nigel will listen and make the best decision for his circumstances.

Thank you all for your comments and apologies to the OP for the diversion.

As you all say the next step is for me to listen to the two options next week at my dealer and decide on one for home demo.

I will start a new topic thread next week after my dealer demo so I don't divert this thread further.

Cheers.

Nigel, treat it like an exam....read and make sure you understand the question, the answer is in the question “ND 555 impressions.”????Have fun

Gaz

Mango is correct.   It should be remembered that when the 552 was first introduced the CDS3 was Naim’s top source.  

nigelb posted:

Bart, I didn't realise you too run a ND555 with as 252, so I can see where you are coming from, and I too have always erred on the side of source first.

It is just that the ND555 appears to be so revealing, I just need to be sure (as I can) that the 252DR isn't holding it back unduly. From the comments from you ND555/252 (and CD555/252) users it appears this is not the case. But of course you could also argue that the NDS/PS555DR could hold the 552 back. It does have to be either the ND555 or 552 first but hopefully the other will follow in due course.

The other thing I have to consider is that pre-loved 552s are rare (I always buy pre-loved from my trusted dealer where possible) so it may also be a somewhat pragmatic choice initially.

I think source first has always given a person the best sound quality . 

Hi again,needing to put a better insurance package together,any recommendations?.

I found that in the older generation streaming products the weak link wasn't actually the DAC, but the streamer.

For instance on an UQ, from the internal streaming, the music sounds a big congested, but the moment a Linn or Auralic stream is connected the performance (to my ears) get a lot less congested and more enjoyable.

So I suppose the new generation of streamers will sound a lot better.

I can't see how a 552 can solve this problem. If I had an NDS, I would either upgrade to a ND555, at at the very least, buy another streaming product and output that into the NDS.

a pre cannot solve problems with the source.

I also found a 172 more than capable of showing me the huge upgrade from a Chord Hugo TT to a Chord Dave, and I spent my budget on upgrading the source, while keeping my 282 and Hicap DR.

Source first for me. a preamp cannot add back what isn't there from the streamer/DAC.

I am looking forward to my Christmas break of two weeks in which I will have a lot of hours with my ND555. I assume by then also the burn in will be closed, but let’s see. The bump I took more or less a week ago, was a step forward, I was happy with it.

Hi Bert,how long has burn in been now in hours,i’ve Clocked up 75 hours so far,l know l’ve got more to go though.regards bob.

Bob green posted:

Hi Bert,how long has burn in been now in hours,i’ve Clocked up 75 hours so far,l know l’ve got more to go though.regards bob.

It’s difficult to estimate but I would assume close to 200 or just over 200 hours of run time.

Bert Schurink posted:

Bob green posted:

Hi Bert,how long has burn in been now in hours,i’ve Clocked up 75 hours so far,l know l’ve got more to go though.regards bob.

It’s difficult to estimate but I would assume close to 200 or just over 200 hours of run time.

I clocked the run in hours on my Nova that I bought on the 1st of September, I left it running all day while at work for a few weeks but it was between 400 and 500 hours before it settled, the bass was definitely varying but finally firmed up nicely around 400, I’m sure every device will be different though and maybe some changes are merely perception and accustomising to the sound perhaps

My experience is a b it different, to other posters, on first connection (5 weeks ago) the ND555 was wonderful far exceeding the NDS, but I have not detected much change since. Possibly a bit confusing as I still play me vinyl system, which I would say is still ahead of streaming, albeit to a lesser extent than with the NDS.

GerryMcg posted:

My experience is a b it different, to other posters, on first connection (5 weeks ago) the ND555 was wonderful far exceeding the NDS, but I have not detected much change since. Possibly a bit confusing as I still play me vinyl system, which I would say is still ahead of streaming, albeit to a lesser extent than with the NDS.

Be prepared for some additional quality at a certain po8nt, I also had the feeling it stayed relatively stable for a while, now I git a big jump.

Some of the burn in times quoted suggest the equipment is not being played continuously. 17 days would achieve 400 hours. Personally I think Naim equipment takes a very very long time but it is worth it. The difficult issue is whether the system is being held back by setup, something to do with speakers/room etc.

After 6 months with a 252 (282 before + SCDR)  and 555PS (XPSDR before) into nDAC I’m just beginning to be in a really nice place. The weird thing was that the 252 was used for about 6 months before I bought it (the previous owner went up to 552+500).

Filipe posted:

Some of the burn in times quoted suggest the equipment is not being played continuously. 17 days would achieve 400 hours. Personally I think Naim equipment takes a very very long time but it is worth it. The difficult issue is whether the system is being held back by setup, something to do with speakers/room etc.

After 6 months with a 252 (282 before + SCDR)  and 555PS (XPSDR before) into nDAC I’m just beginning to be in a really nice place. The weird thing was that the 252 was used for about 6 months before I bought it (the previous owner went up to 552+500).

The thought of a repeat burn-in phase doesn't sound particularly inviting. However, I do find that if my pre-amp is turned off for any extended period, such as a weekend, then it'll take around 7-8 days of warm-up before it's truly on song again. Maybe you've been experiencing something similar, which you're mistaking for burn-in.

Clive B posted:

Filipe posted:

Some of the burn in times quoted suggest the equipment is not being played continuously. 17 days would achieve 400 hours. Personally I think Naim equipment takes a very very long time but it is worth it. The difficult issue is whether the system is being held back by setup, something to do with speakers/room etc.

After 6 months with a 252 (282 before + SCDR)  and 555PS (XPSDR before) into nDAC I’m just beginning to be in a really nice place. The weird thing was that the 252 was used for about 6 months before I bought it (the previous owner went up to 552+500).

The thought of a repeat burn-in phase doesn't sound particularly inviting. However, I do find that if my pre-amp is turned off for any extended period, such as a weekend, then it'll take around 7-8 days of warm-up before it's truly on song again. Maybe you've been experiencing something similar, which you're mistaking for burn-in.

Clive, Never turn mine off even though abroad for 5 weeks recently. My wife used it for TV sound! As others say it can take a long long time. The difference after a lengthy period of not listening is that there is magic and excitement in the music whether CD or vinyl. I don’t think it was fatigue either. I’m very happy, but patience seems to be needed.

Brain burn in or gear burn in? I suspect it’s more our brains getting used to the sound. If a new product doesn’t sound good after a few days then I would reject it. In fact I’d be concerned if it sounded any less than superb new out of the box. My speakers and amp sounded wonderful from new.

I can understand an hour or two for warm up but can’t understand any more than that.

Sometimes we might want to like a product more than we actually do. I know I’ve been guilty of that.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Mango is correct.   It should be remembered that when the 552 was first introduced the CDS3 was Naim’s top source.  

It's a zero-sum game to me; every streamer will be replaced in the line as time goes on.  We just end up listening to less than we could whilst waiting.  The fact that analog pre-amps aren't on the same cycle is a shame; too bad for us consumers that development has stopped.  It surely cannot be because 'we can't get any better.' (Reminds me of the gent who wanted to close the Patent Office in 1899 because "everything that can be invented has been invented.")