ND555 Impressions

Well after following this thread on the forum since inception,I just installed a 552 and ND555 in place of my 272/555PS. While the increase in overall SQ is significant,I imagine that it will gradually increase over time. Very happy so far although I must say that the law of diminishing returns is fully in play here when you consider the cost. The fully run in 272/555PS was really quite good. No regrets though. I do have some questions if I may,since Bert,Mango and Richieroo have a similar set-up and box counts and I believe rack set ups.

I have 2 Fraim stacks with 3 levels per side for now.

Left side.          Right side

552.                   552PS

ND555.            555PS

NAP 300          300PS

First, are these the optimal placements.

I am using Superlumina DIN/XLR mono pair and one of them while it reaches, is slightly pulled to one side. I think they are 1 meter which was the only offering here in the states at the time. Do you think this is a problem?

The NAP 300 Burndies are on the carpeted floor as you might imagine given that the 300 and 300PS are the lowest level.

Overall, cable dressing seems difficult. Not sure I know what I'm doing.

Lastly, the equipment racks are between and behind the Sopra 3s. Would be tough aesthetically to move to one side of the room. How important is this? Sopras are about 3.5 feet from front wall and about 4-5 feet from sides of rectangular room. 14 X 28 feet.

Sorry for all the questions and I hope this hasn't diverged too much from topic but this is a large investment in SQ and want to make sure its all optimized. The level of knowledge and experience with the participants in this thread is impressive.

thanks

Hi JS I have not gone down the Fraim route .......... I use an Atacama Evoque SE single stack (due to space constraints). All psu's at the bottom then 500/552/ND555 above seems just fine. I would imagine a twin stack setup .... would be superior - that for me will not happen.

Hi everyone,has anyone had to power down there ND because screen went blank ?, l have had to do this three times in the last week it has to find rooms again the it’s ok,thanks guys.bob.

No never had to do that Bob. Had mine for 6 weeks now.

Bob, I have had problems with the artwork when playing ripped CDs freezing this requiring a power down to clear but never had a blank screen.

Naim are aware of the screen freezing problem in fact I had a e-mail from there R & D department about half an hour ago saying that they will start testing a new Beta firmware build first thing tomorrow so hopefully this should fix the issue.

Thanks Gazza,l will make further inquiries.

Thanks guys!.

jsaudio posted:

...

I have 2 Fraim stacks with 3 levels per side for now.

Left side.          Right side

552.                   552PS

ND555.            555PS

NAP 300          300PS

First, are these the optimal placements....

....

I'd try the ND555 at top on both stacks as getting the most space around the source will generally be best. The 552 also likes space but it is priority and where to compromise and it is 30 mins of lifting and re-plugging to decide yes/no - then you know for you!

I always found the 300 head unit sounded faster and cleaner not on the lowest shelf, so a spacer-shelf sometime will improve performance IMO and also help lift the Burdy cables off the floor and sound better.

Between the speakers is not as good as not-between - but you have to make that call on cables and room constraints. Generally I found a better more open and clean-detailed sound with the space between the speakers containing the least clutter of any kind that is capable of moving - if it can, it will and you will hear its contribution - or not for some, but I do and easy to try when the right opportunity presents.

For now try swapping the top two stack items as it is no cost to find out. Then my next priority would be another Fraim level to free-up the 'brain' stack bottom shelf to be empty. It sounds a lot better empty with the glass in-place. If a Dealer can lend you a level to try to confirm always better.

You asked!

DB.

jsaudio posted:

Well after following this thread on the forum since inception,I just installed a 552 and ND555 in place of my 272/555PS. While the increase in overall SQ is significant,I imagine that it will gradually increase over time. Very happy so far although I must say that the law of diminishing returns is fully in play here when you consider the cost. The fully run in 272/555PS was really quite good. No regrets though. I do have some questions if I may,since Bert,Mango and Richieroo have a similar set-up and box counts and I believe rack set ups.

I have 2 Fraim stacks with 3 levels per side for now.

Left side.          Right side

552.                   552PS

ND555.            555PS

NAP 300          300PS

First, are these the optimal placements.

I am using Superlumina DIN/XLR mono pair and one of them while it reaches, is slightly pulled to one side. I think they are 1 meter which was the only offering here in the states at the time. Do you think this is a problem?

The NAP 300 Burndies are on the carpeted floor as you might imagine given that the 300 and 300PS are the lowest level.

Overall, cable dressing seems difficult. Not sure I know what I'm doing.

Lastly, the equipment racks are between and behind the Sopra 3s. Would be tough aesthetically to move to one side of the room. How important is this? Sopras are about 3.5 feet from front wall and about 4-5 feet from sides of rectangular room. 14 X 28 feet.

Sorry for all the questions and I hope this hasn't diverged too much from topic but this is a large investment in SQ and want to make sure its all optimized. The level of knowledge and experience with the participants in this thread is impressive.

thanks

 

In general I would say closely follow the advice of DB on this, he is the professor in this kind of stuff. However some general observations from my side...

- The ND555 would be better positioned at the top, give it space.

- if you would have spare levels the NAP 300 could also be of the ground.

A simple not costly method to ensure that the cables are a bit from the ground and are not influenced is to put some soft book under the cable. One can of course also spent a huge amount on cable lifters, but that’s final tuning when nothing else is left.

And I forgot to mention, if you can move the electronics to the left or the right, a bit away from your speakers...

When you are at this level of Naim, just look out for ex demo Fraim to give your electronics some space. I have 2 Fraims with each 4 shelves. ND555/252 space with Cisco switch, 300 head unit in medium shelf on base unit.

Brawn unit....Uniti Core, 300 ps, supercap, 555ps on the base unit. In this dealer installed system, no cabkes touch, no burndies on the floor.

555ps for 555ps on base unit, supercap above, 555ps, then 300ps

My dealer reorganised mine when he installed the ND 555,2fraims one side two x555ps,552ps gap nd555 on top other side 552pre, gap 500 ps,500 on bottom.

Gazza posted:

When you are at this level of Naim, just look out for ex demo Fraim to give your electronics some space. I have 2 Fraims with each 4 shelves. ND555/252 space with Cisco switch, 300 head unit in medium shelf on base unit.

Brawn unit....Uniti Core, 300 ps, supercap, 555ps on the base unit. In this dealer installed system, no cabkes touch, no burndies on the floor.

555ps for 555ps on base unit, supercap above, 555ps, then 300ps

Gazza, any particular reason the dealer installed the Core and switch in the Fraim? The Core is essentially a computer and if the Cisco switch has a SMPS, these are noisy blighters and best kept away for the main system and certainly plugged into a ring main separate form the main system.

Bob green posted:

My dealer reorganised mine when he installed the ND 555,2fraims one side two x555ps,552ps gap nd555 on top other side 552pre, gap 500 ps,500 on bottom.

That seems a bit unconventional, mixing 'brains' and 'brawn.'

I've read a lot of advice to put the preamp above the streamer.  I've always had my streamer on top and above the preamp and have been too lazy to re-arrange.  But now I'm reading advice to put the streamer on top.  Obviously the "right" answer is to simply do what sounds "best."

I got my ND555 on Sunday.

Here, in Israel, you can't demo a 13,000£ source... you have to buy it blind, so I did.
I have never loved my NDS. It was a nice/pleasant/fine source, but that's it.
I always preferred my CDS-2+555PS DR and, of course, the mighty LP12.

Out of the box the ND555 is much much better than the NDS.
It's like I had my list of what I don't like of the NDS and naim just fixed lots of those things.
The ND555 is still very new so I don't want to judge yet, just to share my impressions so far.
First, it's build quality is top-notch, praiseworthy, like other components of the 500 series (e.g. 552), great screen and nice remote too.
Second, It's a 500 component, it really is. It's synergy with the 500-552 is nothing less than perfect.
The colours, the luxury and the beauty of the sound are very addictive.

Delicate and more details.
A remarkable machine, I can tell now.
I'm still trying to figure out how things are getting much more emotional connection.
This phenomenon of the ND555 can be described as the combination of liquid and darker sound (+lower noise floor) and the ability to
extract every detail from the recording and (this is very important) without exaggerate anything.
The result is a beautiful beautiful picture of sounds.

Break in period.
I really enjoyed my first day with the ND555 (6 hours of constant listening until 02:00am).
Now it's Day 3, the ND555 can produce a bit too much bass sometimes, and to sound a little bit dull, but it's a break in period,
a lovely journey by itself. Even when the ND555 is described as dull, it's much more interesting to listen than the NDS.
Just so you know - I hated my new 552 for the first month, break in.

Music Music Music.
I connected my Chord Music and UnitiCore with Cisco switch and Chord Sarum and Signature Ethernet cables to the ND555.
I will try to add my second 555PS DR in the future, and I will connect my SuperLumina DIN-DIN in a few days for comparisons.
With the NDS I preferred the Chord Music eventually.

The ND555 is great for classical piano, like others have already said, it renders the piano notes in a very special, natural way.
It's a great fun to listen to some rock, jazz and pop (which is 10% of my music).
I listen mostly to classical music. It's now easier to understand what's going on on the recording, more like the cd player.

ND555 VS CD Player.
From what I heard so far the ND555 does not have the focus of the compact disc and the soundstage is still more ambiguous
than the cd player, however, it's strengths are so addictive, I don't want to play CDs for now.
The LP12 is still very unique and special, and I will always love it's sound. Just two different things, so why not enjoy both digital and analog?

BP.

nigelb posted:

Gazza posted:

When you are at this level of Naim, just look out for ex demo Fraim to give your electronics some space. I have 2 Fraims with each 4 shelves. ND555/252 space with Cisco switch, 300 head unit in medium shelf on base unit.

Brawn unit....Uniti Core, 300 ps, supercap, 555ps on the base unit. In this dealer installed system, no cabkes touch, no burndies on the floor.

555ps for 555ps on base unit, supercap above, 555ps, then 300ps

Gazza, any particular reason the dealer installed the Core and switch in the Fraim? The Core is essentially a computer and if the Cisco switch has a SMPS, these are noisy blighters and best kept away for the main system and certainly plugged into a ring main separate form the main system.

Nigel, what you are saying makes sense, in general terms, but having wandered round my house using a SW radio to detect sources of electrical noise (blame Simon-in-Suffolk, it was him who put me up to it!!) I found that my Cisco 2960 was about the least electrically noisy device in my whole house, despite its built in SMPS. On the other hand, I had a Cisco 300 series switch at the time, and poking that with the SW radio aerial was so noisy I might have been poking a hornets nest with a stick. 

nigelb posted:

Gazza posted:

When you are at this level of Naim, just look out for ex demo Fraim to give your electronics some space. I have 2 Fraims with each 4 shelves. ND555/252 space with Cisco switch, 300 head unit in medium shelf on base unit.

Brawn unit....Uniti Core, 300 ps, supercap, 555ps on the base unit. In this dealer installed system, no cabkes touch, no burndies on the floor.

555ps for 555ps on base unit, supercap above, 555ps, then 300ps

Gazza, any particular reason the dealer installed the Core and switch in the Fraim? The Core is essentially a computer and if the Cisco switch has a SMPS, these are noisy blighters and best kept away for the main system and certainly plugged into a ring main separate form the main system.

Just my preference, the Cisco is linked from another switch under the fireplace to the Fraim. I have moved the switch off the rack, and also put the Core by the router in a different room......I could not hear any real difference even after leaving for a few hours to warm up. I hope Naim have done there homework on good SMPS power for the Core and Nova etc supplies like Linn? So for me it’s more convenient for the pair to be with the main Hifi. Perhaps next year I can get DB down here in Colchester for a listen.....for a third opinion. He currently has quite a special system to work on for a while.

But if I had a 552 (dreaming now) and those Superthingy cables perhaps it would all change. Have a great Xmas and New Year if we don,t speak , probably one of your busiest seasons...so all the best

Gaz

Gazza posted:

... Perhaps next year I can get DB down here in Colchester for a listen.....for a third opinion. .....

But if I had a 552 (dreaming now) and those Superthingy cables perhaps it would all change.

Have a great Xmas and New Year if we don,t speak , probably one of your busiest seasons...so all the best

Gaz

All things are possible - be careful what you wish for - or muse over!

A certain Dealer may loan you a 552 just so you can be certain you don't want one...and all the S-Thingy loom too.

But enjoy the special run-in Season of Goodwill yourself too!

DB.

Understood Gazza, but remember you have a hugely transparent streamer now, although I accept Naim have made advances in making it less sensitive and better able to reject noise so maybe these precautions are more important for the NDS.

All the best to you and the family and hope we get a chance to meet up again next year.

N

Jsaudio,

That’s a mighty “double leap” you have just made. In a way it’s a pity that you didn’t change to 552 first, so you could appreciate what a leap that is, while simultaneously gaining an insight into how good the NDS can be, albeit the ND555 is in another dimension. 

I think you may still be perceiving improvements for maybe a year. Enjoy!

David

Very interested in this topic of Fraims as mine is at my dealers.  Will pick it up in a week or so.  I have 2 Fraims of 2 levels.  Intrigued by the idea of separating the ND555 and its power supply.  I have not had the separate power supplies before, how long is the cable connecting them?  Can I separate the two Frames by 24 inches so my power amplifier sits between them.  I have a view of the water, and my wife does not mind how many boxes I have, as long as they don't stack more than 2 high.  Original thought was to put the ND555 and its PS on one Fraim, and Unity Core and Preamp on the other.   Seems like not the way to go from what I am hearing here.  What is the max separation laterally for the ND555 and its PS?

Bailyhill

Thanks for the valuable responses. I thought that the consensus was to place the 552 on top but I will gladly switch with the ND555 after things stabilize. The last thing we need is to introduce confounding variables in this subtle business. Will also consider a shelf under the 300 at some point.

Yes David I did initially want to do 1 at a time but would have had to use a bare 272 pre-amp with the ND555 which may have obscured things or alternatively a bare 272 streamer with the 552, same issue.

JSAUDIO, my experience is that the ND555 demands the best pre you can afford. I found the 252DR was  not able to show the full potential of the ND555, so a bare 272 would be even less able. So IMHO you did the right thing in getting the 552 and ND555 together. I would have done the same if it were affordable but had to pick one upgrade at a time and have actually gone for the 552 first.

Yes Nigel I have followed your thread. You are one of the reasons I went straight to the 552 skipping 282 or 252.

so glad your enjoying the 552 and can now look forward to the streamer upgrade at some point

thanks for all your valuable insights 

nigelb posted:

JSAUDIO, my experience is that the ND555 demands the best pre you can afford. I found the 252DR was  not able to show the full potential of the ND555, so a bare 272 would be even less able. So IMHO you did the right thing in getting the 552 and ND555 together. I would have done the same if it were affordable but had to pick one upgrade at a time and have actually gone for the 552 first.

While I have to agree that you need the 552 to show it’s full potential, I also heard the 252 and a ND555 at a show and found it also sounding quite good. So with other words it can also be a step in point to heaven. While you always need to plan for the 552 in the back of your mind.