ND555 Impressions
Posted by: Bert Schurink on 26 July 2018
The Beast will arrive and will be installed tomorrow morning in my system. So I thought it was a good moment to open up a thread with the fist experiences, also giving others the possibility to share their first impressions with the beast.
I feeel a bit like a little child who has his birthday tomorrow. I assume that even while it will be nice weather during the weekend that I will be a spending a lot of hours with my system.
And as expected my car will not arrive before the ND555.
BPhotographer posted:Darke Bear posted:The ND555 presentation is a bit brighter than the CD555. So far I've not found this in a fatiguing way - but depends on particular music.
Generally I find streaming systems so easy to get wrong and lose their performance at this level - so far this combo of ND555 - Melco is doing well. I've tried to limit the distributed network aspect as much as possible for the demo.
When good streaming goes wrong it can become relentless rather than engaging, so part of the extended demo is to get past the short-duration listening to see how it fairs over a longer time.
It is very different in presentation from the CD555 which never, in my set-up, became relentless and just did the job and got out of the way of the music. The test is to see how the ND555 does longer term listening - so far it is doing some good things in a different way.
A very cohesive, measured performance with all the larger-scale and smaller micro-dynamics present. It is done differently from the CD555 and I'd not say it is greatly better or worse at that so far - just different.
DB.
Brighter might be because of the Melco, maybe you can get a UnitiCore for the demo.
Cisco switch, Chord Ethernet cables and a hard-drive recommended by naim inside the UnitiCore made a big different for my NDS.
BP.
I use Chord Indigo aray ethernet cable and it sounded much better than any of the other ethernet cables I had tried . Worth a try in your new top of the line Naim Streamer !
True Signal audio cables is the company, they are mail order and by pure coincidence their current U.K dealer is Signals near Ipswich. The cables are U.S military based, and then terminated for Hifi in the U.K. They started out by supplying for one of the high end cable suppliers, no clue who that is, or was ?
BPhotographer posted:Darke Bear posted:The ND555 presentation is a bit brighter than the CD555. So far I've not found this in a fatiguing way - but depends on particular music.
Generally I find streaming systems so easy to get wrong and lose their performance at this level - so far this combo of ND555 - Melco is doing well. I've tried to limit the distributed network aspect as much as possible for the demo.
When good streaming goes wrong it can become relentless rather than engaging, so part of the extended demo is to get past the short-duration listening to see how it fairs over a longer time.
It is very different in presentation from the CD555 which never, in my set-up, became relentless and just did the job and got out of the way of the music. The test is to see how the ND555 does longer term listening - so far it is doing some good things in a different way.
A very cohesive, measured performance with all the larger-scale and smaller micro-dynamics present. It is done differently from the CD555 and I'd not say it is greatly better or worse at that so far - just different.
DB.
Brighter might be because of the Melco, maybe you can get a UnitiCore for the demo.
Cisco switch, Chord Ethernet cables and a hard-drive recommended by naim inside the UnitiCore made a big different for my NDS.
BP.
You may have a good point there I think BP. My experience with Melco and NDS was that together they simply didn’t work. Sonics were all very sweet and impressive, but the music was flat and uneventful. I suspected that perhaps the two units’ attempts at reclocking the signal were somehow arguing with each other, but that could of course be nonsense. Whatever the reasons, reinstalling my Unitiserve in the serve role resulted in an obviously coarser, less controlled sound, but also restoration of musical joy. I wondered if NDS and Melco reclocking technologies were somehow arguing with each other, but that could be nonsense of course. Anyway DB, it may be worth trying Core to see what difference that makes?
I know that Signals are very impressed with the Melco, and it is very good. I am not convinced with the Melco third party interface and the SQ vs Core, though I have never done a back to back. I wonder if it’s more suited to the Chord Dave style of presentation.
To be fair the Core is a Uniti range, maybe Naim have a Classic version on the cards for ND555 at a later date.
I've sorted some if not all the brightness - the position of the ND555 on Fraim was a bit too close to front. This sort of thing also did the same when the CD555 was not positioned right.
All flowing nicely now - more sensitive to this in evenings it seems.
Also there are two music Server options on the Melco - a default 'twonky' (I think) one and a Minim server that access the same stored data - and they both sound very different.
It had been the considered opinion - even by me up until this home demo - that the Minim was the nicer presentation of the two. It still is. But the other one gives a lot more insight and detail in low-bass, clearing away a layer of coloration.
It all matters to the end-result and what sounds good in a passive system may not do the same in an Active one.
More to follow - I'm getting the measure of it a bit more now.
The App still goes into blocking 'looking for a room' mode for a minute every now and then - trying to keep the frustration at that away from this but it is there.
DB.
With the non-Minim Server the ND555 has the large-scale dynamics of the CD555. With the Minim it is just short. With the NDS I never even got close in that musical aspect - although other things were done well that the ND555 retains and does even better.
DB.
Just had an extensive listen to the ND555 with a bare pre-amp section of the 272. Amp was a 250. Speakers Sopra-2. Very impressive overall especially given the pre-amp we used. I'm planning on doing the same for a while before I decide on a seperate pre-amp. It was convincingly better, especially overall detail, than my current 272/555PS/300/Sopra-3. Wanted to make sure it was at least somewhat better while I wait for a pre-amp decision. Still feel I should wait a while for the possible pre-amp update.
The very low bass on the ND555 (with two supplies) is better detailed and clearer than I get with the CD555. The latter has excellent weight and percussive abilities that always made music entertaining.
The ND555 is doing a more clear rendering of the complex weaving of low synth notes and the very high notes. It is a different emphasis. With the ND555 there is a big picture of the performance with all details ongoing in realistic perspective. Live concert recordings are very impressive - very impressive.
The CD555 does the low synth well with great weight and presence but the low-bass percussion seem more apparent and impressive and right.
But the ND555 percussion is all there with good weight too - it does not sound lacking just different and tough to say which is more correct in that department. Again - a longer demo will tell me if I miss the presentation of the CD555 or not.
The very low bass notes are better-rendered via the ND555 as I'm listening now.
The 'brightness' effect I mentioned earlier seems to have gone from perception - good!
DB.
The musical timing in all aspects from small to large scale rendering is excellent. The 'open window' effect on the performance is very engaging. I've not heard this done better. Top to bottom grip on the music rendering in a fluid delightful way.
This is rather excellent! 
Definitely hearing new things in music I know well. Some bass notes are now a run of five rapid notes together never heard before.
DB.
That is it for tonight.
Another session tomorrow and a few experiments in mind - I want to try moving the Melco from under the ND555 unit to the side Fraim stack with the 555PS units, as I have a spare level that will make cable-dressing a bit easier.
This will be to hear if there are any changes at all and what direction.
So far impressed but require longer. I like what the ND555 does with a lot of my music and especially more complex layered recordings and live concerts.
Some stuff I feel still works better with the CD555 but it is very close and the ND555 does do many things better, but at this stage of a home demo I'm getting used to changes and differences and know longer is needed to let it all sink-in and become aware if anything is missing, as omissions can take longer to spot than the presence of problems.
From what I hear so far the ND555 is very capable and certainly clearly better than the NDS. But the CD555 is a very different beast that does do some things very well and was a special Naim achievement IMO that I want more time to assess the performance of the ND555 against a bit longer.
Fortunately I have another couple of days. At this level I have found lots of little things have their impact and I want to look into each in turn to get a fuller view on what the ND555 requires to really sing. It is doing very well given it has just been inserted and generally I like things to be warmed-up for a day or more to settle-down.
More tomorrow.
DB.
Very comprehensive set of comments, DB.
I must get to hear an ND555, even if it stratospherically above my means and space. I will claim lack of space as the reason for not getting one.
Hi DB.
Good to hear your anticipated review forming. I think most forum members (like me) hold your opinions in the highest regard.
I would like to say, in my experience, I have had better results not using the Melco or innuos statement. I would suggest to try the Naim option in another room with a specialized audio switch. This is my prefered option, although the switch will open another can of worms.
Cheers
Rich
DB, interesting. I have probably only had a couple of hours listening to the ND555 not at home, and for one of those hours there was two of us sharing control of it.. although the speakers used were not my cup of tea. I found there was a similar PCM1704K trait to the ND555 ... but the area that it did appear to truly excel over the NDS was the resolving of complex or even unharmonic or slightly discordant sounds .. quite noticeable on some vocal duet recordings. I felt however some deliberately intense and forward recordings were a little reigned back and dissipated... that felt curious... not sure if more to do with the Focal speakers I was listening on... perhaps need ultimately a home demo to explore that one further
musicfan51 posted:BPhotographer posted:Darke Bear posted:The ND555 presentation is a bit brighter than the CD555. So far I've not found this in a fatiguing way - but depends on particular music.
Generally I find streaming systems so easy to get wrong and lose their performance at this level - so far this combo of ND555 - Melco is doing well. I've tried to limit the distributed network aspect as much as possible for the demo.
When good streaming goes wrong it can become relentless rather than engaging, so part of the extended demo is to get past the short-duration listening to see how it fairs over a longer time.
It is very different in presentation from the CD555 which never, in my set-up, became relentless and just did the job and got out of the way of the music. The test is to see how the ND555 does longer term listening - so far it is doing some good things in a different way.
A very cohesive, measured performance with all the larger-scale and smaller micro-dynamics present. It is done differently from the CD555 and I'd not say it is greatly better or worse at that so far - just different.
DB.
Brighter might be because of the Melco, maybe you can get a UnitiCore for the demo.
Cisco switch, Chord Ethernet cables and a hard-drive recommended by naim inside the UnitiCore made a big different for my NDS.
BP.I use Chord Indigo aray ethernet cable and it sounded much better than any of the other ethernet cables I had tried . Worth a try in your new top of the line Naim Streamer !
Would be interested to know if the Chord Music would improve on my Vodka Cable...
BPhotographer posted:Darke Bear posted:The ND555 presentation is a bit brighter than the CD555. So far I've not found this in a fatiguing way - but depends on particular music.
Generally I find streaming systems so easy to get wrong and lose their performance at this level - so far this combo of ND555 - Melco is doing well. I've tried to limit the distributed network aspect as much as possible for the demo.
When good streaming goes wrong it can become relentless rather than engaging, so part of the extended demo is to get past the short-duration listening to see how it fairs over a longer time.
It is very different in presentation from the CD555 which never, in my set-up, became relentless and just did the job and got out of the way of the music. The test is to see how the ND555 does longer term listening - so far it is doing some good things in a different way.
A very cohesive, measured performance with all the larger-scale and smaller micro-dynamics present. It is done differently from the CD555 and I'd not say it is greatly better or worse at that so far - just different.
DB.
Brighter might be because of the Melco, maybe you can get a UnitiCore for the demo.
Cisco switch, Chord Ethernet cables and a hard-drive recommended by naim inside the UnitiCore made a big different for my NDS.
BP.
do you still enjoy more your cds2 Bpphotographer? or now, with cisco switch and chord ethernet, is the nds more foot tapping?
Bert Schurink posted:musicfan51 posted:BPhotographer posted:Darke Bear posted:The ND555 presentation is a bit brighter than the CD555. So far I've not found this in a fatiguing way - but depends on particular music.
Generally I find streaming systems so easy to get wrong and lose their performance at this level - so far this combo of ND555 - Melco is doing well. I've tried to limit the distributed network aspect as much as possible for the demo.
When good streaming goes wrong it can become relentless rather than engaging, so part of the extended demo is to get past the short-duration listening to see how it fairs over a longer time.
It is very different in presentation from the CD555 which never, in my set-up, became relentless and just did the job and got out of the way of the music. The test is to see how the ND555 does longer term listening - so far it is doing some good things in a different way.
A very cohesive, measured performance with all the larger-scale and smaller micro-dynamics present. It is done differently from the CD555 and I'd not say it is greatly better or worse at that so far - just different.
DB.
Brighter might be because of the Melco, maybe you can get a UnitiCore for the demo.
Cisco switch, Chord Ethernet cables and a hard-drive recommended by naim inside the UnitiCore made a big different for my NDS.
BP.I use Chord Indigo aray ethernet cable and it sounded much better than any of the other ethernet cables I had tried . Worth a try in your new top of the line Naim Streamer !
Would be interested to know if the Chord Music would improve on my Vodka Cable...
I compared the AQ Vodka to the Chord Sarum T, the Sarum T was much much better, worth the extra money.
BP.
Darke Bear posted:The very low bass on the ND555 (with two supplies) is better detailed and clearer than I get with the CD555. The latter has excellent weight and percussive abilities that always made music entertaining.
The ND555 is doing a more clear rendering of the complex weaving of low synth notes and the very high notes. It is a different emphasis. With the ND555 there is a big picture of the performance with all details ongoing in realistic perspective. Live concert recordings are very impressive - very impressive.
The CD555 does the low synth well with great weight and presence but the low-bass percussion seem more apparent and impressive and right.
But the ND555 percussion is all there with good weight too - it does not sound lacking just different and tough to say which is more correct in that department. Again - a longer demo will tell me if I miss the presentation of the CD555 or not.
The very low bass notes are better-rendered via the ND555 as I'm listening now.
The 'brightness' effect I mentioned earlier seems to have gone from perception - good!
DB.
I am very much appreciating your detailed report of your listening experiences. Please keep them coming. You have a special ear for the last level of detail, and your tips on positioning etc are very much welcome. After a bit longer with the ND555 I can echo some of the things you mention..
1. The ND is best with live recordings. Of course not meaning that it is not good with studio, but I just shows more off with live.
2. The brightness was also an early concern - but not anymore, it goes away after a certain period of burn in.
3. From the beginning I run the Melco with Mimim server, and it’s very good in rendering out in Wav.
4. I still experience something which I would call authority in the ND555, completely in control, able to slam if needed.
5. It brings the music very close to your ears, in a way surrounds you with music.
My experiences are of course limited to the one ps situation. I guess you guys with two ps. are even hearing more good things.
French Rooster posted:BPhotographer posted:Darke Bear posted:The ND555 presentation is a bit brighter than the CD555. So far I've not found this in a fatiguing way - but depends on particular music.
Generally I find streaming systems so easy to get wrong and lose their performance at this level - so far this combo of ND555 - Melco is doing well. I've tried to limit the distributed network aspect as much as possible for the demo.
When good streaming goes wrong it can become relentless rather than engaging, so part of the extended demo is to get past the short-duration listening to see how it fairs over a longer time.
It is very different in presentation from the CD555 which never, in my set-up, became relentless and just did the job and got out of the way of the music. The test is to see how the ND555 does longer term listening - so far it is doing some good things in a different way.
A very cohesive, measured performance with all the larger-scale and smaller micro-dynamics present. It is done differently from the CD555 and I'd not say it is greatly better or worse at that so far - just different.
DB.
Brighter might be because of the Melco, maybe you can get a UnitiCore for the demo.
Cisco switch, Chord Ethernet cables and a hard-drive recommended by naim inside the UnitiCore made a big different for my NDS.
BP.do you still enjoy more your cds2 Bpphotographer? or now, with cisco switch and chord ethernet, is the nds more foot tapping?
Yes, the NDS got better and better but I still feel it doesn't have the right weight, focus and soundstage of the CDP.
I'm using the NDS with 2x555PS DR and Chord Music interconnect, it's the best combination for the NDS.
You can hear anything, any genre, and "enjoy", because it's so perfect, nothing irritating, it's presentation is big, forward, but smeared and unclear compared to the CDP.
Most of the time I listen to classical music and I have lots of recordings for the same piece of music.
The interesting thing is that with the CDP it's easier to recognize what's going on - which conductor/pianist/violinist is playing, what orchestra, what hall, even which recording engineer.
With the NDS, it's all sounds almost "the same", like a blackbox of which all recordings are inserted and the output is perfect no matter if it's a 1950 recording or a 2018 recording 24-96.
Sounds like a good thing, but a source that doesn't allow me to hear what's going on on the disc, is not good enough. We are talking high-fidelity here...
The TT and the CDP allow me.
Any streaming solution, including my 30k streamer, doesn't.
So afraid of buying a ND555 and get disappointed again... I have to buy it blind here.
BP.
Hey DB, thanks for all the updates and keep them coming.
The whole system died overnight and nothing works so I'll report if I can get anything to talk to anything and play music.
DB.
...update. Up and running after excellent out-of-hours service from Signals (Andy) - re-boot the iPad by full power-down and it now works!
And it may even be sounding better and smoother today... but that may be in part joy at being able to play the music.
DB.
RICHYH posted:Hi DB.
Good to hear your anticipated review forming. I think most forum members (like me) hold your opinions in the highest regard.
I would like to say, in my experience, I have had better results not using the Melco or innuos statement. I would suggest to try the Naim option in another room with a specialized audio switch. This is my prefered option, although the switch will open another can of worms.
Cheers
Rich
i had experimented similar things with nds/ 555 dr/ melco direct vs uniticore and cisco switch. With the later combo, the music had more involvement and bass, more urgency too. With melco direct, the sound was softer and with a bit more details. There was probably less noise but the sound was less “naim”.
Darke Bear posted:The whole system died overnight and nothing works so I'll report if I can get anything to talk to anything and play music.
DB.
Really enjoying your updates, DB, but every time I start to feel 'yes, I should try to get into streaming', I see an example like this and my enthusiasm drains away again. Perhaps I'm just a dinosaur. 
Has anybody tested Roon with ND555. By the way Drake great reviews keep them coming....
Richieroo - I asked this question a few days ago and got no response so lets hope this time we will. I am a big fan and user of Roon and have it working across all 4 Naim Systems . My main system is NDX/XPS, 252. NAP 300 and I use an UltraRendu & Mutec MC3 to deliver Roon into it . Despite all my best efforts the main system still sounds just that bit better running off the Uniti Serve. Given Roon is now natively implemented on the ND555 and the other new streamers , im hoping those differences will narrow/disappear