ND555 Impressions

Posted by: Bert Schurink on 26 July 2018

The Beast will arrive and will be installed tomorrow morning in my system. So I thought it was a good moment to open up a thread with the fist experiences, also giving others the possibility to share their first impressions with the beast.

I feeel a bit like a little child who has his birthday tomorrow. I assume that even while it will be nice weather during the weekend that I will be a spending a lot of hours with my system.

And as expected my car will not arrive before the ND555.

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by musicfan51
Darke Bear posted:

Yes - it has to or it won't work!

Naim could have you buy them separately. Just making sure there are no hidden costs !  

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by Darke Bear

I also tried routing the Melco via the Cisco switch - and even for a while tried both the normal and SSD Melco storage drives via a router toward the ND555. All worked fine - except added the network 'wibble' noise atop the music - a sort of bumpy-modulation compared to the direct output from Melco to ND555.

I think someone asked, so there is what I prefer the Melco in the loop in this particular system set-up. Not to say there are not better ways - I always hope there are!

Present system seems stable and working well. I have no internet until (hopefully) next week - and my Dealer kindly proposed I have a second home-demo follow-up with everything working - download album artworks etc.

Yes to that! But in meantime it returns on to another lucky home demo customer tomorrow. I return to my trusty CD555 for a few days and that will also be interesting.

DB.

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by Darke Bear
musicfan51 posted:
Darke Bear posted:

Yes - it has to or it won't work!

Naim could have you buy them separately. Just making sure there are no hidden costs !  

If I decide to trade-in my CD555 (still a decision ahead) then I'll probably retain the old burned-in leads as I'm using these now and they sound great and donate the new ND555 ones onward with the CD555. Unless of course I try them and they are better!

Yes you get all needed leads to make the ND555 or CD555 work.

DB.

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by musicfan51
Darke Bear posted:
musicfan51 posted:
Darke Bear posted:

Yes - it has to or it won't work!

Naim could have you buy them separately. Just making sure there are no hidden costs !  

If I decide to trade-in my CD555 (still a decision ahead) then I'll probably retain the old burned-in leads as I'm using these now and they sound great and donate the new ND555 ones onward with the CD555. Unless of course I try them and they are better!

Yes you get all needed leads to make the ND555 or CD555 work.

DB.

What are you using for interconnects between ND555 to your Preamp ? 

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by Bart
Alan Willby posted:

The direction this thread has taken convinces me more than ever that I will never have a streamer as my primary source - just too many things to go wrong (network, broadband, switches, router, software glitches, scrambled metadata, etc.), too many variables (quality of previous list, hard wire or wi-if, server, NAS, etc.) and too many things to worry about (interference, wife cannot watch the TV when the hi fi is on, cannot boil a kettle for a cuppa, the street lights have come on, it’s a full Moon, etc.) - and that’s all on top of all the other stuff we all like to fret about. Give me CD, Vinyl and Radio any day. Decide what you fancy listening to, pop it on, sit back and enjoy. Simples. If it involves even ten minutes of messing around with networks, re-booting, etc then it is ten minutes too long. Not against streaming - I have a basic set up and enjoy listening to Radio Paradise (FLAC via Squeezebox - very good too), BBC3 in HD (also excellent - but no better than my tuner) and investigating artist’s catalogues with Deezer - but then I buy the CD or Vinyl. Instant enjoyment guaranteed every time.

My music replay (server, ethernet, etc etc) is guaranteed every time. I suspect that for every one person with issues there are 10 you never hear from because things work just right.

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by musicfan51
Bart posted:
Alan Willby posted:

The direction this thread has taken convinces me more than ever that I will never have a streamer as my primary source - just too many things to go wrong (network, broadband, switches, router, software glitches, scrambled metadata, etc.), too many variables (quality of previous list, hard wire or wi-if, server, NAS, etc.) and too many things to worry about (interference, wife cannot watch the TV when the hi fi is on, cannot boil a kettle for a cuppa, the street lights have come on, it’s a full Moon, etc.) - and that’s all on top of all the other stuff we all like to fret about. Give me CD, Vinyl and Radio any day. Decide what you fancy listening to, pop it on, sit back and enjoy. Simples. If it involves even ten minutes of messing around with networks, re-booting, etc then it is ten minutes too long. Not against streaming - I have a basic set up and enjoy listening to Radio Paradise (FLAC via Squeezebox - very good too), BBC3 in HD (also excellent - but no better than my tuner) and investigating artist’s catalogues with Deezer - but then I buy the CD or Vinyl. Instant enjoyment guaranteed every time.

My music replay (server, ethernet, etc etc) is guaranteed every time. I suspect that for every one person with issues there are 10 you never hear from because things work just right.

I think you r right 

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by murray harden

My ND555 has arrived. About to have listen and compare to NDS which I have owned since2012. Pretty excited.....

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Bart posted:
Alan Willby posted:

The direction this thread has taken convinces me more than ever that I will never have a streamer as my primary source - just too many things to go wrong (network, broadband, switches, router, software glitches, scrambled metadata, etc.), too many variables (quality of previous list, hard wire or wi-if, server, NAS, etc.) and too many things to worry about (interference, wife cannot watch the TV when the hi fi is on, cannot boil a kettle for a cuppa, the street lights have come on, it’s a full Moon, etc.) - and that’s all on top of all the other stuff we all like to fret about. Give me CD, Vinyl and Radio any day. Decide what you fancy listening to, pop it on, sit back and enjoy. Simples. If it involves even ten minutes of messing around with networks, re-booting, etc then it is ten minutes too long. Not against streaming - I have a basic set up and enjoy listening to Radio Paradise (FLAC via Squeezebox - very good too), BBC3 in HD (also excellent - but no better than my tuner) and investigating artist’s catalogues with Deezer - but then I buy the CD or Vinyl. Instant enjoyment guaranteed every time.

My music replay (server, ethernet, etc etc) is guaranteed every time. I suspect that for every one person with issues there are 10 you never hear from because things work just right.

I agree, and most streamer talk on here is about tweaking the final .1% as opposed to basic core function. Not dissimilar to tuners with type of aerial download coax, coax routing, aerial type, balans etc... and some will be fine with wet string... don’t get me started on vinyl.. where if one is susceptible one can get obsessed with cartridges, tracking weights, orientation, motor regulation, vinyl supports etc... then there is cassette , and with CD, the treatment of CD, type of CD finish, CD player support etc...but admittedly the choice of tweaks on CD is probably the least of the bunch.

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by musicfan51
murray harden posted:

My ND555 has arrived. About to have listen and compare to NDS which I have owned since2012. Pretty excited.....

Congratulations Murray! Excited for you ! 

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by Gazza

Excited to hear an update in due course, enjoy.

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by tonym
Darke Bear posted:

I'm here - just been demoing the top Melco (SSD) vs the next one down (Normal Drives).

Got Minim Server going and did Twonky vs Minim too.

In short - differences and preferences rather than the 'all better or worse' that many may want as definitive answers. This is all personal subjective anyway.

In my system it is going down to what dives the most open dynamic rendering with best bass quality - that appears to be middle Melco and Twonky Server for me.

The SSD Melso does do some things a lot better and if I get it to equal the next one down in Bass quality then I'd like a lot of what it does - more refined in HF and aspects of mid-band. But for raw unrestrained energy and bass resolution I'm presently preferring the middle Melco model - and since it is a lot less expensive that also helps, as I want the top one to do all the middle one does and then add its extra qualities. To be fair in many systems you may not really hear it the same.

Same with the Minim Server - I like how it handles mid-band but it sounds a bit flat compared to Twonky and the latter has obviously better deep bass that is hard to give-up.

So I'm continuing along my path and slowing getting to a focus that works for me - I think.

The Melco solution does work very well - once you use a rubbish cheap Ethernet with it!

DB.

 

 

These things are so system dependent. Much as I didn't want to find the more expensive, SSD Melco better than the HDD model, this definitely wasn't the case in my system. Admittedly, my model, the N1ZA, and the HDD version, have now been superceded. The differences between the two models isn't just down to the HDs - casework, power supply, connections are all improvements in the N1Z in terms of materials and construction.

Interesting what you're finding with Minimerver Vs. the Melco's Twonky Gary. I used the latter for a while before Minimserver became available, then switched because Minimeserver was marginally better. However, since then Melco have issued an update to their PnP, so maybe I should give that a try (it's not a good idea to have both types running at the same time) - if I can be bothered!

As I read of the difficulties and complications folk seem to have with their ethernet-based streaming systems, I'm rather pleased I stuck with the direct, async. USB connection.

Posted on: 14 August 2018 by Richieroo
murray harden posted:

My ND555 has arrived. About to have listen and compare to NDS which I have owned since2012. Pretty excited.....

Fantastic ......... lets get some more views......what is the rest of your system? 

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by Laxton

I've just had my ND555 installed a few hours ago by my dealer. It replaces a NDS in my system. The 555DR which used to be powering the old NDS remains. The rest of the system is 555DR/500DR/803D3/SuperLumina/Fraims.

I'd like to quantify that the system with the NDS sounded extremely sublime to begin with. I went with the ND555 as it's the natural choice to complement the rest of the system.

The ND555 surprisingly weighs less than the NDS. 

The initial impressions were that the bass goes deep....really deep. Much more so than the NDS and it's much tighter too. The highs sounded more extended and in terms of complex passages, the separation is marginally better at the moment. However, I'm noticing that the presentation is quite bright at the moment and I'm really unable to listen to it extensively for long periods. Hopefully leaving it running will mellow down the treble.

I've some concerns on the ND555 though:
1. Naim seemed to be using electrical tape to secure the transport bolts as an added measure to prevent them from coming loose. This leaves behind very bad glue marks after the tape is removed. My dealer and I had a pretty rough time trying to remove the tape marks with WD40 as the unit is quite heavy. Hopefully Naim will improve this as they go along.
2. I had a semi faulty remote with an "up" button that wasn't clicking fine. Quite unfortunate for a product at this price point.
3. I've no way of turning off the display when no music is playing. i've tried toying around with the display button on the remote, and also disabled the display when playback function in the menu. Nothing seems to help and the LCD display was still showing regardless when the music is stopped. The only way i could get the LCD display to switch off was to put the unit into standby. Could i be missing something? If it's a feature lapse, perhaps Naim could look at including a display off function for the LCD screen in future software release, similar to what NDS had.

Enough ramblings for now. I'll have a further listen tonight and hopefully the brightness/sibilance would've settled down by then.

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by ChrisSU

Yes, it’s UPnP, so non-Naim streamers can see and use it. 

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by Terrysmi

But it is limited to 20,000 tracks i believe ?

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by rjstaines
Alan Willby posted:

The direction this thread has taken convinces me more than ever that I will never have a streamer as my primary source - just too many things to go wrong (network, broadband, switches, router, software glitches, scrambled metadata, etc.), too many variables (quality of previous list, hard wire or wi-if, server, NAS, etc.) and too many things to worry about (interference, wife cannot watch the TV when the hi fi is on, cannot boil a kettle for a cuppa, the street lights have come on, it’s a full Moon, etc.) - and that’s all on top of all the other stuff we all like to fret about. Give me CD, Vinyl and Radio any day. Decide what you fancy listening to, pop it on, sit back and enjoy. Simples. If it involves even ten minutes of messing around with networks, re-booting, etc then it is ten minutes too long. Not against streaming - I have a basic set up and enjoy listening to Radio Paradise (FLAC via Squeezebox - very good too), BBC3 in HD (also excellent - but no better than my tuner) and investigating artist’s catalogues with Deezer - but then I buy the CD or Vinyl. Instant enjoyment guaranteed every time.

A very sensible comment Alan; possibly the most sensible in the whole of this thread.

Thing is, though, I think you'll find you're 'swimming upstream'...  when faced with the inevitable, best to lay back, close your eyes and enjoy it.

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by Michael_B.

I’d be interested to hear people’s experiences and conclusions on Melco vs. Core purely on sound quality...

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by ChrisSU
Terrysmi posted:

But it is limited to 20,000 tracks i believe ?

I don’t think Naim quote an absolute limit, although they do say that it may be slow to navigate large libraries. Unlike the old streamers, they do say that USB hard drives can be used, rather than just USB sticks and iOS devices. 

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by nbpf
ChrisSU posted:

Yes, it’s UPnP, so non-Naim streamers can see and use it. 

Let me try to understand: networked streamers and players see the contents of USB drives attached to Nova/ND555 through a UPnP server but the devices themselves only see a file list? That would be weird!

The other way round: if Nova/ND555 support controlling the replay of contents of attached USB drives via the Naim app, what is the point of feeding these devices via Cores, Melcos, NASes, etc.? It would be much easier, less expensive and possibly better sound-quality wise to just replay from attached drives! 

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by Mike Sullivan
Michael_B. posted:

I’d be interested to hear people’s experiences and conclusions on Melco vs. Core purely on sound quality...

I can’t comment on the Melco, but went from ripping and streaming on an iMac using iTunes and Playback (uPnP) to a Core. Th Core has better SQ, more expansive and refined but not light and day. I also went from a UC2/NAP100 to a Nova and that was a big step in SQ compared to the Core. Having said that, the Core is much more reliable (no drop outs), with a vastly better Ui, so I’m well pleased.

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by analogmusic

I would been keen to know what network equipment Naim used to develop the ND555

thats the one I would use for myself.

 

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by Bert Schurink
Laxton posted:

I've just had my ND555 installed a few hours ago by my dealer. It replaces a NDS in my system. The 555DR which used to be powering the old NDS remains. The rest of the system is 555DR/500DR/803D3/SuperLumina/Fraims.

I'd like to quantify that the system with the NDS sounded extremely sublime to begin with. I went with the ND555 as it's the natural choice to complement the rest of the system.

The ND555 surprisingly weighs less than the NDS. 

The initial impressions were that the bass goes deep....really deep. Much more so than the NDS and it's much tighter too. The highs sounded more extended and in terms of complex passages, the separation is marginally better at the moment. However, I'm noticing that the presentation is quite bright at the moment and I'm really unable to listen to it extensively for long periods. Hopefully leaving it running will mellow down the treble.

I've some concerns on the ND555 though:
1. Naim seemed to be using electrical tape to secure the transport bolts as an added measure to prevent them from coming loose. This leaves behind very bad glue marks after the tape is removed. My dealer and I had a pretty rough time trying to remove the tape marks with WD40 as the unit is quite heavy. Hopefully Naim will improve this as they go along.
2. I had a semi faulty remote with an "up" button that wasn't clicking fine. Quite unfortunate for a product at this price point.
3. I've no way of turning off the display when no music is playing. i've tried toying around with the display button on the remote, and also disabled the display when playback function in the menu. Nothing seems to help and the LCD display was still showing regardless when the music is stopped. The only way i could get the LCD display to switch off was to put the unit into standby. Could i be missing something? If it's a feature lapse, perhaps Naim could look at including a display off function for the LCD screen in future software release, similar to what NDS had.

Enough ramblings for now. I'll have a further listen tonight and hopefully the brightness/sibilance would've settled down by then.

Congratulations. And two comments...

1. The bright thing will settle in, so no worries.

2. The display can be switched off by scrolling via the remote to option and select the display off, however in order to have it working you need to switch power on and off first, after that it works.

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by ChrisSU
nbpf posted:
ChrisSU posted:

Yes, it’s UPnP, so non-Naim streamers can see and use it. 

Let me try to understand: networked streamers and players see the contents of USB drives attached to Nova/ND555 through a UPnP server but the devices themselves only see a file list? That would be weird!

The other way round: if Nova/ND555 support controlling the replay of contents of attached USB drives via the Naim app, what is the point of feeding these devices via Cores, Melcos, NASes, etc.? It would be much easier, less expensive and possibly better sound-quality wise to just replay from attached drives! 

The devices themselves do see the contents of a USB drive via UPnP, just as they would if stored on a NAS. Eoink seems to have a problem getting this to work, but it works fine for me. 

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by David Hendon
nbpf posted:
ChrisSU posted:

Yes, it’s UPnP, so non-Naim streamers can see and use it. 

Let me try to understand: networked streamers and players see the contents of USB drives attached to Nova/ND555 through a UPnP server but the devices themselves only see a file list? That would be weird!

The other way round: if Nova/ND555 support controlling the replay of contents of attached USB drives via the Naim app, what is the point of feeding these devices via Cores, Melcos, NASes, etc.? It would be much easier, less expensive and possibly better sound-quality wise to just replay from attached drives! 

This strikes me as an essentially pointless discussion, besides being off-topic here.

best

David

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by LarsDK

I will use ND555 plug and play w unitiserve and trust it gives a great result

any experience w system automation? It was never stable w nds and my 552. Volume control would be nice from the app.

thx Lars