ND555 Impressions

analogmusic posted:

Darke Bear posted:

Home-demo part 2 underway...

Interesting.

Why is an expensive Melco server needed?

Many answers:

1. It is not 'needed' as it 'works' with any suitable drive.

2. A better question may be why I used this for the demo?

- for that it is because I've tried other ways of accessing data in streaming systems - heard many such systems and until I heard this combo of ND555 - Melco had no real urge to upgrade my CD555, as there was really nothing to upgrade as it sounded clearly better to me.

But this Combo had a clarity and lack of murkiness that drew my attention and I wanted to see if it did the job for me.

Melco claim many reasons for their existence and no point me reiterating them. There are two main mind-sets - 'all digits and it makes no difference' and 'implementation can make a difference'. I'm in the latter camp as it is what I hear and experience, but many prefer for ideological and reasons of managing their own sanity to be in the former - perfectly understand both views.

Why do I need an expensive Active system? I non't need one - I do like what it does which is what I accumulated it over many years. Some questions don't have simple or satisfying answers.

DB.

French Rooster posted:

Dark Bear, I have never heard, until now, that someone is running the iPad app with an iPad connected by a lan cable and adapter.  It is possibly the answer.   But I have no technical answers to give. I hope you will solve that.   I feel the cd555 is near to go, my feeling....

I always aim to spoil my home demo if I can.

No - I tried Wireless - it works the same so no real difference between the two other than the wired LAN connection promised to be more stable (I thought) as it is just there and the iPad does not have to reach through the ether to get its connection - but it may just like doing that. I'll try it again Wireless later as I have that at both 2.4G and 5G available if I must.

In meantime it is working and I'm playing music and exploring further the capabilities. ND555 is very capable and does benefit from some care in implementation I'm finding. I'm not claiming the best implementation - in fact I went away from what was the 'best' and preferred the less-expensive HD Melco over the SSD version (the latter had its clear benefits in some musical areas) - and definitely prefer Twonky server over Minim server where I'd previously heard the latter beat the former in other systems.

As I said - interesting.

DB.

Darke Bear posted:

French Rooster posted:

Dark Bear, I have never heard, until now, that someone is running the iPad app with an iPad connected by a lan cable and adapter.  It is possibly the answer.   But I have no technical answers to give. I hope you will solve that.   I feel the cd555 is near to go, my feeling....

I always aim to spoil my home demo if I can.

No - I tried Wireless - it works the same so no real difference between the two other than the wired LAN connection promised to be more stable (I thought) as it is just there and the iPad does not have to reach through the ether to get its connection - but it may just like doing that. I'll try it again Wireless later as I have that at both 2.4G and 5G available if I must.

In meantime it is working and I'm playing music and exploring further the capabilities. ND555 is very capable and does benefit from some care in implementation I'm finding. I'm not claiming the best implementation - in fact I went away from what was the 'best' and preferred the less-expensive HD Melco over the SSD version (the latter had its clear benefits in some musical areas) - and definitely prefer Twonky server over Minim server where I'd previously heard the latter beat the former in other systems.

As I said - interesting.

DB.

So if I understand well, your WiFi connection for your iPad is not stable?    Do you think something like Apple Airport can improve the stability of the wifi?   Can it be possible that the iPad adapter for wired connection introduces also some instability?   Sorry to bother you with my questions, but I am also enjoying that you seem to appreciate more and more the nd555, and the technical steps are also interesting.

You are also the first on the forum to compare the cd555 vs nd555.   Risjaines will probably be the next person.

DIY jobs done, raining outside, guests arriving at 6pm.... An hour to spare, so it must be time to rev up a few tunes on the ND555.

First listen to Suzanne Vega’s Solitude Standing on the ND555. This has been a solid favourite for over 30 years, but I’ve never heard it like this before. No need for more details, as everyone has said it all. Just sitting back and chilling.

No network or app issues here either.

Dave.

Coincidentally I've been playing that exact Album just now.

System is working for music-play via App but artworks not showing right sometimes.

Dave - thank you for reassuring me because I’m quite possibly based on my very positive experience with the Qb going to buy a streamer to replace my CDS3 but then I read about all these issues arising when someone is trialling a £12k streamer.  Tell me it can’t be true????

French Rooster posted:

So if I understand well, your WiFi connection for your iPad is not stable?    Do you think something like Apple Airport can improve the stability of the wifi?   Can it be possible that the iPad adapter for wired connection introduces also some instability?   Sorry to bother you with my questions, but I am also enjoying that you seem to appreciate more and more the nd555, and the technical steps are also interesting.

You are also the first on the forum to compare the cd555 vs nd555.   Risjaines will probably be the next person.

The last home demo from two weeks ago I had my old Internet system and old Router with 2.4G WiFi that seemed to drop-out with the Naim App - but only that as the Web-surfing worked ok. Now I've got a new ISP and brand new Router and new WiFi, but decided I'd also like the option to run the iPad via a LAN too. Many don't know that is possible but you can get a cable for that and I got that a few days ago and used it. Same problem - but I'm ignoring that for now as long as I can access my music and play then it can be solved later as far as having artworks.

If I log-in to the music Server on the Melco via the web interface it has on port 9050 then it all works fine with correct Album artworks so it seems (I'm guessing) an issue between the Naim App and the Twonky server.

When I use the Minim Server I had to install a separate 'Minim watch' app on a computer on the house network to update the database to even allow the music to appear at all visible - that seems to work and does the job and the Album artworks are a bit more reliable via Minim Server (not 100%) than Twonky Server, but the latter gives better music performance in my system so I want to use that.

Yes - I and doing my final comparison of ND555 vs CD555 and will decide if I can replace my venerable CD555. The difference is not silly huge but in some areas the ND555 is clearly better in terms of rendering musical performance scale and bass definition - which is nice to hear! But in terms of intimacy and drawing you in I find the ND555 can do that too, but you need to get all the install right - the CD555 being 'just a box' is somewhat easier if not also demanding in other ways - but I know and have built on my experience with the CD555 for my ND555 demo.

The ND555 likes to have its own table like the CD555 does - for my system.

...and there will always be dust.

DB.

DB,
You love naim, all of your components are naim.
Why not using a naim Uniti Core instead of a Melco?
The Melco is excellent but the Uniti Core has the naim sound.

BP.

Risjaines is waiting for his nd555.  He uses a melco too.   He will probably tell us if he prefers too the minim server and if he encounters the same app problems ( disappearing cover arts).

A server has a sound? I would seriously have thought the differences would have been functional?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

A server has a sound? I would seriously have thought the differences would have been functional?

That is what I used to think.

My Dealer demonstrated on their system it made a difference - not that subtle to be either.

The odd thing is that I agreed with their view on their humble full-Statement system that Minim sounded better. But on my own Active part-Statement, part-Reference system it is most definitely the Twonky I prefer - more natural and better articulation in vocals and all note-structures.

Easy to try - both Servers are on the Database so you get to choose via the App 'Servers' tab.

DB.

French Rooster posted:

Risjaines is waiting for his nd555.  He uses a melco too.   He will probably tell us if he prefers too the minim server and if he encounters the same app problems ( disappearing cover arts).

I wanted to write “ twonky” server.

Superbly natural-detailed-dynamic on Suzanne Vega now.

Please don't be off-put by my comments on other aspects or the replay I'm encountering - peripheral to the superb performance this device is capable of rendering.

Definitely a 'Statement-level' performer in terms of neutral effortless presentation of everything.

DB.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

A server has a sound? I would seriously have thought the differences would have been functional?

This was my firm position before I compared Asset on a QNAP to HDX serving the same files in the same NAS location. Asset wiped the floor with the HDX.

No, I can't explain it either. But when someone says they prefer a certain make/model/server on musical enjoyment grounds, I know how it is possible for some people to hear differences and form preferences, just as I have.

Shared-insanity is sometimes good.

Harry posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

A server has a sound? I would seriously have thought the differences would have been functional?

This was my firm position before I compared Asset on a QNAP to HDX serving the same files in the same NAS location. Asset wiped the floor with the HDX.

No, I can't explain it either. But when someone says they prefer a certain make/model/server on musical enjoyment grounds, I know how it is possible for some people to hear differences and form preferences, just as I have.

Naim UnitiCore sounds noticeably better than the  HDX does . 

Its always interesting with the finetuning learnings. I for one went streaming with the unitiserve solution and by now have forgotten any start-up issues. However there is some learning curve/setup go to from cd to streaming. In my case it did not take long, and phil harris was immensely helpful with remote support, even logging in to my network. I can imagine that the core is a better platform, and even closer to plug and play. Since I got it to work, I never tested any variations in the setup as I was super happy with the replay. Big respect to those who test it all, and also to the more lazy ones like myself :-) lars

musicfan51 posted:

Harry posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

A server has a sound? I would seriously have thought the differences would have been functional?

This was my firm position before I compared Asset on a QNAP to HDX serving the same files in the same NAS location. Asset wiped the floor with the HDX.

No, I can't explain it either. But when someone says they prefer a certain make/model/server on musical enjoyment grounds, I know how it is possible for some people to hear differences and form preferences, just as I have.

Naim UnitiCore sounds noticeably better than the  HDX does . 

I loaned  UnitiCore to see if it was any better than my HDX as a server for the NDS and it sounded worse to me. I have an XPS2 on the HDX which may account for the difference. The HDX is used in a second system so has dual usage. I also preferred the HDX server to Minimserver on the QNAP.

LarsDK posted:

Its always interesting with the finetuning learnings. I for one went streaming with the unitiserve solution and by now have forgotten any start-up issues. However there is some learning curve/setup go to from cd to streaming. In my case it did not take long, and phil harris was immensely helpful with remote support, even logging in to my network. I can imagine that the core is a better platform, and even closer to plug and play. Since I got it to work, I never tested any variations in the setup as I was super happy with the replay. Big respect to those who test it all, and also to the more lazy ones like myself :-) lars

your experience mirrors mine almost exactly. 

enjoy

ken

Jonn posted:

musicfan51 posted:

Harry posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

A server has a sound? I would seriously have thought the differences would have been functional?

This was my firm position before I compared Asset on a QNAP to HDX serving the same files in the same NAS location. Asset wiped the floor with the HDX.

No, I can't explain it either. But when someone says they prefer a certain make/model/server on musical enjoyment grounds, I know how it is possible for some people to hear differences and form preferences, just as I have.

Naim UnitiCore sounds noticeably better than the  HDX does . 

I loaned  UnitiCore to see if it was any better than my HDX as a server for the NDS and it sounded worse to me. I have an XPS2 on the HDX which may account for the difference. The HDX is used in a second system so has dual usage. I also preferred the HDX server to Minimserver on the QNAP.

My HDX served me well. It was a nice unit . And using with NDS worked well. I was quite surprised the UnitiCore sounded better . 

Our HDX didn't owe us anything. It gave us faithful service for years. When no longer wanted, it went to a home where it would continue to be appreciated and we got some of the heat taken off our SL loom, courtesy of the trade in value of the departing HDX. Win win. We certainly would have gone to a streaming model at some point. The HDX made it happen sooner rather than later and was painless.

I don't buy what Melco are selling, as a concept. But I haven't heard one in a system, let alone mine. In the meantime, I may be uninterested but I'm not discounting anything.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I guess your home network should be of the quality of your ND555 to match its performance.

Well said, and essentially never done in the real world. It should be.

Harry posted:

 

I don't buy what Melco are selling, as a concept. But I haven't heard one in a system, let alone mine. In the meantime, I may be uninterested but I'm not discounting anything.

I get the impression that most of the praise heaped on the Melco is when it's used NOT integrated into the home network as a UPnP server.  (EG, some form of direct connection.)

Given that I have two hi fi systems, I'm only interested in server solutions that are truly networked servers.

Bart posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I guess your home network should be of the quality of your ND555 to match its performance.

Well said, and essentially never done in the real world. It should be.

The problem comes, for me, from the crap commercial routers which provide our ethernet, tv and phone.  But how change that?  We can optimize the network but the source, the crap router, can’t be change.  Can it be?

French Rooster posted:

Bart posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I guess your home network should be of the quality of your ND555 to match its performance.

Well said, and essentially never done in the real world. It should be.

The problem comes, for me, from the crap commercial routers which provide our ethernet, tv and phone.  But how change that?  We can optimize the network but the source, the crap router, can’t be change.  Can it be?

Why not ? I don't know what it's like in France*, but here in UK we don't have to use the ISP provided router (though some make it harder than others to swap) so it should be possible to use an ADSL/VDSL modem (this is assuming ADSL or what BT call Fibre to the cabinet) into a full blown Cisco router if that takes your fancy. Not sure I'd fancy doing the config on that though. You'd need something to provide DHCP and DNS services too. There's other nice to have services too, so let's say a Windows or Unix server. Then there's a firewall..... but it is possible.

I've never unboxed my BT router and have a "3rd party" device which seems to be fine.

I also never see the issues Dark Bear is reporting with the app - app never goes to the room finder, and it's generally fast too, unless it's anything to do with playlists. If the app was that bad I'd think that far more people would be reporting issues both here and to Naim.

* I'm assuming you're in France. Sorry if that's wrong.