ND555 Impressions

Similar situation here Bart, although our other "systems" are MuSos and QBs.

Guys, i really don’t think it’s the ‘router’ that hinders most sets ups.. Many new ISP routers like from BT are under the covers quite advanced devices, compared to some off the shelf devices to support IP TV and UHD streaming etc and they support network protocols like Naim and others use. For Wifi, as some have heard me say before, best use multiple semi pro or commercial access points in a wired mesh set up for optimal use, but a single Wifi irouter from a major ISP should also be fine albeit with the limitations of a single access point. Most modern access points support multicast and IGMP because that is what our favourite consumer applications whether it be from Apple, MS, Google etc need to use, so consumer stuff tends to work better now. But yes even now  one runs into a consumer ‘home network’ device that interferes with the network operation for more extended network uses... and this can cause consumer frustration... but also is difficult for manufacturers like Naim to isolate as it’s beyond their control.

i have spoken to Naim about this and suggested they recommend home network devices that work with their product ... but the answer was given that’s it’s a global market with huge faraiability this really is not practical... so a potential dilemma and a frustration for some... and I guess this is one use of the forum to share local knowledge.

The app will sometimes drop back to Rooms, lose cover art (very rarely nowadays)  and will fall behind the playback position if the iPad sleeps or I wander off into other apps and return to the Naim app.  Playback is never affected. There could be many reasons. Given the unfailing stability of my network and wireless performance when using anything that isn't the Naim app, I'm fairly confident where the blame lies. But I'm guessing.

French Rooster posted:

Bart posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I guess your home network should be of the quality of your ND555 to match its performance.

Well said, and essentially never done in the real world. It should be.

The problem comes, for me, from the crap commercial routers which provide our ethernet, tv and phone.  But how change that?  We can optimize the network but the source, the crap router, can’t be change.  Can it be?

I guess I am lucky that my ISP's supplied router is OK.  I don't use it for wifi, and the only item I have connected to it by ethernet is my 16-port switch....but for allowing my devices to all see each other it's just fine.  Although I COULD change it out, I'm not going to try to fix something that isn't broken!

TallGuy posted:

French Rooster posted:

Bart posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I guess your home network should be of the quality of your ND555 to match its performance.

Well said, and essentially never done in the real world. It should be.

The problem comes, for me, from the crap commercial routers which provide our ethernet, tv and phone.  But how change that?  We can optimize the network but the source, the crap router, can’t be change.  Can it be?

Why not ? I don't know what it's like in France*, but here in UK we don't have to use the ISP provided router (though some make it harder than others to swap) so it should be possible to use an ADSL/VDSL modem (this is assuming ADSL or what BT call Fibre to the cabinet) into a full blown Cisco router if that takes your fancy. Not sure I'd fancy doing the config on that though. You'd need something to provide DHCP and DNS services too. There's other nice to have services too, so let's say a Windows or Unix server. Then there's a firewall..... but it is possible.

I've never unboxed my BT router and have a "3rd party" device which seems to be fine.

I also never see the issues Dark Bear is reporting with the app - app never goes to the room finder, and it's generally fast too, unless it's anything to do with playlists. If the app was that bad I'd think that far more people would be reporting issues both here and to Naim.

* I'm assuming you're in France. Sorry if that's wrong.

Yes, in France.  The ethernet is provided by the phone network, which is a crap.  But my system sounds very good, have no complaints.   But probably, with a router of the quality of my cisco 2960 switch, the sound would be better, I imagine.

Bart posted:

I guess I am lucky that my ISP's supplied router is OK.  I don't use it for wifi, and the only item I have connected to it by ethernet is my 16-port switch....but for allowing my devices to all see each other it's just fine.  Although I COULD change it out, I'm not going to try to fix something that isn't broken!

Hi Bart, in the setup you describe above, it will be your switch that allows all your devices to talk to each other not your router, especially as you are not using your router as a Wifi access point. Your router will be providing the functionality of connecting your home network to the internet and providing the required port translation services, as well as any other functions you let  it do most likely by default such as  DNS relay, DHCP server, UPnP port control services etc. (For control between your home network and the internet)

It sounds like it’s working perfectly for you, I wouldn’t recommend changing it at all.

Hi Folk, 

I noticed that the ND555 suspension doesn’t feel bouncy when you lift the unit. Mine feels quite different from lifting a 552 or NDS. Is this normal?

Laxton posted:

Hi Folk, 

I noticed that the ND555 suspension doesn’t feel bouncy when you lift the unit. Mine feels quite different from lifting a 552 or NDS. Is this normal?

 

I remember thinking just the same when I poked the brass sub-chassis of an open model at the factory. I assume it's normal for the ND555. I didn't lift the one I had on loan.

French Rooster posted:

Risjaines is waiting for his nd555.  He uses a melco too.   He will probably tell us if he prefers too the minim server and if he encounters the same app problems ( disappearing cover arts).

I have minim server and no issues whatsoever.

Bert Schurink posted:

French Rooster posted:

Risjaines is waiting for his nd555.  He uses a melco too.   He will probably tell us if he prefers too the minim server and if he encounters the same app problems ( disappearing cover arts).

I have minim server and no issues whatsoever.

Of course Bert,  glad you have no issues.   Have you chosen minim vs twonky, or other reason?

I was thinking of Risjaines because he had the cd555.  I am very curious to know how it compares vs the nd555.

I am waiting also the ndx2 roadshows.

Since the dust was a big hit before it remains!
The flash does make it look worse than it really is - my excuse!

This is the view of the rest of the system I'm trying it all out in.

Day 3 of home demo and the ND555 continues to open-out and sound even better. The linearity seems to improve in that musical detail at different recording and playback levels in a presentation sound more seamless and natural. The neutrality of this source impresses me - retaining all detail and especially the timing information, but not giving emphasis to anything. The timing portrayed in micro-details and longer melodies is impressive.

I'm leaving aside for now the continuing issues I have with the App - I know what they are and accept them for now.

But musically this device is an excellent source. I've tried higher bit-rate stuff today from a range of genres and generally find the mastering overshadows the otherwise possibly better sonic presentation potential - to the extent I prefer the ripped CDs about 95% of the time compared to the high-bit-rate/bit-depth remasters. The exception is for many Classical masters, which seem rather excellent and only then it is the musical facts (Artist, musicians and venue usually) that will still make me prefer some versions over another.

DB.

Nice photo DB, I thought dust was only for Mana not Fraim ????

Do feel your not sold on the ND555.

Like you I do feel the app and software sour the experience. The theory is those without issues are the hit play and listen, vs the hit play, pause, skip, back, next playlist, switch from Tidal to UPnP and back = meltdown.

I put up with a lot if I get a better musical experience - the ND555 I think is doing this.

The App stuff is more irritating and annoying than a show-stopper or deal-breaker. I'd like it all to work smoothly with the artworks and navigation always there and not go off and get occasionally lost - and on occasion decide I want to randomly play another track at the end of an Album.

Being told that there is something strange about my set-up only goes so far - I know that it is not that and also I know what is going wrong, as I used to run a software development team and this is a logic issue. When the iPad goes to sleep to save battery it re-establishes its network connection when it comes on either via WiFi or LAN. The App forgets where it was - goes to 'searching for rooms' - finds the one and only room and then needs to be taken into it and back where it should have never left. I'm only writing this here in hope someone at Naim will fix this by including a setting or default in the App to begin where it last was when it thinks it lost connection. It has nothing to do with Ethernet protocols - it is a logical setting on the App software. Likewise the Artworks loading or not - Naim should compliance-test this with the common servers people use and ensure it generally works a bit better than it does now.

But in short it does work - if I keep the iPad from tuning-off and it then stays stable and does not search for rooms.

I like the ND555 and am on cusp of wanting one for the musical experience it gives - and the hope that some of these control issues can be later solved either by Naim - or by me if I have to.

DB.

If you use Roon then none  of those issues exist.

That is one thought I had to explore.

The key thing for me is musical performance - the ND555 shows it has it big-time.

The control issues are solvable going ahead. I can run it as I have it now (with minor irritations) with the prospect that control will improve. Naim will either improve the App ahead - or other ways are available.

I do like what the Naim App does - it is a neat and simple device that allows access to your music and is relatively easy to navigate, so it is a good App. But these problems I've had should not be there going ahead. Customer is not always right but...

DB.

Obsydian posted:

The theory is those without issues are the hit play and listen, vs the hit play, pause, skip, back, next playlist, switch from Tidal to UPnP and back = meltdown.

I think you need to look at “the theory” again -I can, and do, do all that, with IR swapped for Tidal, which I don’t use, and don’t have meltdown, or any issues generally described. 

So do we take Tidal to be the cause based on that (the difference between my no issues and your use case for failure) or look again for another theory ? I suspect  a combination of items will be found to be the cause(s) based on the number of apparently random use cases which have been reported to cause issues. 

Darke Bear posted:

That is one thought I had to explore.

The key thing for me is musical performance - the ND555 shows it has it big-time.

The control issues are solvable going ahead. I can run it as I have it now (with minor irritations) with the prospect that control will improve. Naim will either improve the App ahead - or other ways are available.

I do like what the Naim App does - it is a neat and simple device that allows access to your music and is relatively easy to navigate, so it is a good App. But these problems I've had should not be there going ahead. Customer is not always right but...

DB.

Hopefully your dealer can reassure you that the App will be improved or has other Suggestions?

I'm very positive about the ND555-Melco combination.

Control can be solved one way or another is my thinking. It works ok-ish but could be a lot nicer user-interface experience is what I've found.

But for me I'm going from CD replay to Streaming for the first time so I'm hitting head-on what many have already solved for themselves long ago. I've been strongly recommended Roon by another Forum member I know, who has just taken the plunge from NDS to ND555 so there is another possible way ahead.

I can also initiate and control from the Twonky server interface directly and it works reasonably well and is stable. I also prefer so far the Twonky presentation over the Minim one. I listened again to Minim and Twonky does more - like being able to tell what region of UK a singer is from that is not obvious via Minim.

DB.

Have you tried the Core?. For me the Melco is expensive for something relying on third party software. If you were uncomfortable about the Melco software , that would be something  but you are not,  this lack of OEM software steers me away from Melco.

Yup...I think Roon is the way.....try it....

Gazza posted:

Have you tried the Core?. For me the Melco is expensive for something relying on third party software. If you were uncomfortable about the Melco software , that would be something  but you are not,  this lack of OEM software steers me away from Melco.

At some point in near future that will happen.

I've heard streaming solutions for many years and it was not until I began to hear systems that included the Melco that the normal sonic signature that I associated with streaming was not present and instead something more neutral and clear. I then began to pay more attention to streaming with a Chord DAC fed from Melco, which had a lot going for it - then this demo with the ND555 which so far has topped everything to date - to the extent I do want one!

But I always consider the whole system when buying and despite many wanting to believe otherwise, the network implementation does matter. The Melco is one way of removing a lot of timing-blur and coloration I did not like that seemed to easy come with networked streaming systems and effectively ruled them out for me until I heard it could be fixed.

I understand that Melco is in itself not an ideal platform for hosting music-management software and does not seem to be Roon-compatible at present, but it does allow hosting of Minim and Twonky servers, the latter of the two I'm very much enjoying right now.

So I do want a solution that removes the final connection to the ND555 from being from a standard network commercial Ethernet switch and perhaps the Core is another way to do that. I hear it comes with its own set of issues, but I'm no expert on that as of now so won't comment until I have direct experience - which I don't.

DB.

Thanks DB...keep us posted

News from the colonies.......  My Naim dealer in Canada has announced availability for the ND555 so my order is in.

I'm looking forward to some great listening....

Bert how is your Naim ND555 sounding now ? You have had it for awhile . Have you noticed a big improvement from you first plugged it in and played it. How much has it improved ? 

French Rooster posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

French Rooster posted:

Risjaines is waiting for his nd555.  He uses a melco too.   He will probably tell us if he prefers too the minim server and if he encounters the same app problems ( disappearing cover arts).

I have minim server and no issues whatsoever.

Of course Bert,  glad you have no issues.   Have you chosen minim vs twonky, or other reason?

I was thinking of Risjaines because he had the cd555.  I am very curious to know how it compares vs the nd555.

I am waiting also the ndx2 roadshows.

There was initially a very simple reason in the early days. Twonky was not transcoding from Flac to WAV and Wav was such a step forward that I decided to move initially to Asset and later to minim. I don’t know if Twonky does that in it’s current version, but didn’t feel the urge to change back. And in addition, I would not like to retain things again as things get presented slightly different when using different servers.