ND555 Impressions

Michael posted:

I am still not sure whether Twonky is transcoding flac to wav24 on the fly as MinimServer certainly is. 

The Naim App used to tell us what it was being fed.  'Tis a shame that it doesn't any more (although I suppose it did clutter up the interface those times when you didn't want to see it).

(As far as I can see, there is no option to show stream bps and/or format data any longer)

I had a ND555 on home demo I added some internet radio station but could not organise them into the order I wanted.

I contacted Naim and they said that this was a work in progress and there would be some up dates on the ND555 app shortly, when and what updates they did not clarify.

Pcd posted:

I had a ND555 on home demo I added some internet radio station but could not organise them into the order I wanted.

I contacted Naim and they said that this was a work in progress and there would be some up dates on the ND555 app shortly, when and what updates they did not clarify.

Yes I do miss the facility to edit the internet presets on the 555 so an update on the app will be  very welcome.

Well tomorrow is the day.   This box better be good after all this????

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Well tomorrow is the day.   This box better be good after all this????

Believe me it is, hopefully mine should be with me in three to four weeks.

How many ND555s sales does that make now?

Quite a few forum members who have contributed to this thread plus other customers who do not read this forum? It seems, correct me if I am wrong, all those who have heard the ND555 have said very positive things about it, very few if any negatives and many of those folks have either purchased or put in an order for one. All good for Naim.

Interestingly there has been little discussion thus far on the merits of running one or two supplies on the new streamer. Have people auditioned with both options? I was in the fortunate position of having two supplies already so we began my home dem using just one supply and then added the second which did bring added clarity and musicality and a better defined soundstage. 

Last week I had lunch with a couple of old work colleagues and told them I was going to hear a £20k streamer.  When I went on to explain that it still needed an amplifier and speakers there was a silence

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Last week I had lunch with a couple of old work colleagues and told them I was going to hear a £20k streamer.  When I went on to explain that it still needed an amplifier and speakers there was a silence

And a power supply... its deep pockets stuff for sure.

Which makes it remarkable that so many on this forum have committed to one. Maybe we're a self selecting, non representative cohort, but I don't remember so many people buying CD555s when it was launched. Although admittedly, memory is a funny thing. 

I'm not trying to make or prove a point. I was just thinking aloud that the ND555 appears to be selling very well.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Last week I had lunch with a couple of old work colleagues and told them I was going to hear a £20k streamer.  When I went on to explain that it still needed an amplifier and speakers there was a silence

Yup I have had this .......... I have learnt to keep sh-tum..........each to there own........audiophiles are considered as nutters......there is an ace video on you tube .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qHvOaUYwWQ  where  jurors are exposed to a top flight audio system as part of the trial ........... its worth watching....

Rich, thanks for the link.....very interesting

Darke Bear posted:

Michael,

I demoed what was delivered by my Dealer and with the features they allowed me to play with - mainly those on the Melco, which I did and found many little improvements to be had and one which was meant to sound better but actually sounded worse - the latter was turning-off the network interface - it liked being on not off. I try all things with the initial mind-set of what I expect or was told is best, then see how things varied from that in practice.

Another friend visited who runs Minim and was certainly not wanting to hear anything wrong with it said it made things sound, to him, a bit 'glassy' and less detailed - he preferred the Twonky and was last seen heading of to get one installed to play with.

The Minim and Twonky were sitting side by side on the same Melco music server and I had option to try both. Initially I had to use the Twonky as the Minim would not work right until I had an Internet connection to the outside world, which in my house a few weeks ago had failed (now fixed) and it was the Twonky that worked OK and Minim that would not see any new albums entered and at times seemed to go into a sulk-loop of not being happy. While that was happening the Twonky just worked so I used it as there was nothing else - and I found I also preferred its presentation.

Forward to my most recent demo with totally new Internet from new ISP - new Router and the Minim was happy and functioned operationally fine, as did the Twonky. I switched between the two and on everything I prefer the Twonky by a fair margin - like comparing a high-grade MM Cartridge against a mid-quality MC Cartridge is sound terms is nearest analogy. The Minim is nicer and more pleasant - but the Twonky delivers the music more honestly - even the Dealer commented that the Bass was better.

Now it may be possible that removing Twonky makes Minim happy and it then is excellent - but that was not sold to me as being really needed. On that logic the same could be said for the Twonky. If these Servers are competently designed software systems (I used to design and build servers) then they should each load their own process and work within it and will only interact if they share any IP ports once they get onto the Melco network interface. Why such systems need different Ports - always worth checking. Also you will have the inherent 'noise' that running any process generates that accesses a CPU in a machine.

All things are possible but so far I unexpectedly prefer the Twonky over everyone having a leaning, for many great reasons, the other way. The Twonky gave me the cleanest most neutral sound and was otherwise in every way better in my system. It also has a very nice built-in UI Web page it published on port 9050 that allowed me more access and control - great when the Naim App was off 'finding rooms' and otherwise unavailable, I could play music that way - and then the Naim App could wake-up and take over later.

...as it presently stands it is academic for me as I may be pushing all these things down the queue for later.

My aim is not to offend anyone by saying something they don't want to hear but just tell it as I hear it. Minim is not poor and is in its own way excellent, but I preferred the Twonky - that is it.

It is not as if it is impossible for people to try it for themselves - not the most expensive system component.

DB.

Hi DB,

First thank you for your impresssions, as always very insightful and revealing things others haven’t revealed so far. I have to say that I am a bit surprised of you not taking the step immediately to change to the ND555. You had a lot of praise, and with further tweaking and more use of high res your potential would be more extended than with the CD555. 

But I guess your conscious will start to work on you during Christmas time and you will feel the urge to give yourself a present.

Cheers,

Bert

Not managed to follow the whole thread, but i thought Darke Bear's review was the only CD555 vs ND555, correct me if i am wrong, but all others either came from an NDS (that most traded in so no ABA comparison).

So is not not true to say, so far the majority of NDS to ND555 upgraders like the ND555, but those maybe dipping into streaming from the CD555, the ND555 is just different ... 

So maybe buying a second hand CD555 for £2k coupled with 1 or 2 555PS is better ...

Michael in Norfolk also went from CD555 to ND555, and was going to keep his CD555, but realised he was unlikely to use it that much. He has now traded the CD555 in against his ND555.

The ND555 when well installed and set-up is a bit better than the CD555 in some areas and not obviously worse anywhere. But the devices are different and going back to play a CD on my CD555 yesterday I just really enjoyed it for the musical experience and no-fuss quality it gave me.

They are different experiences and the ND555 opens-up a different world - but the CD555 does the same job for CD Album playing for old school people like me that like to have that concept intact still - and possibly still has its own charm. If I were to use the term 'musical integrity' and say do both CD555 and ND555 have it then yes, but just maybe the CD555 has a little more of it.

People picking-up cheap CD555 head units are entering a new musical universe previously financially closed-off for them, so I think it still a very special device that will never be made again and a future collectors item perhaps.

In meantime it comes down - for me -to personal fiances and the fact I need the complete replay-chain, as I demoed it, to achieve the end-result that impressed me enough to want the ND555 - and without all that IMO it is not the equal of better than the CD555. And since the trade-in is presently not great on the CD555 that does not add a lot of funds towards what is needed - so I'm minded to retain the CD555 and accumulate the funds to obtain the ND555 a bit later - that is all. Personal finances and not some undisclosed plot!

DB.

Darke Bear posted:

The ND555 when well installed and set-up is a bit better than the CD555 in some areas and not obviously worse anywhere. But the devices are different and going back to play a CD on my CD555 yesterday I just really enjoyed it for the musical experience and no-fuss quality it gave me.

...

I might have missed some of your (very interesting, thanks!) posts in this very rich thread but have you tried the ND555 fed through its S/PDIF interface during your demo? If also in this setup the ND555 turned out to be "a bit better than the CD555 in some areas and not obviously worse anywhere" and if you wanted to take advantage of the convenience of LAN and internet streaming, you could then also consider an old Naim DAC as an alternative to a new ND555 . It would provide you with the same DAC chips of the ND555 (in an older implementation, of course) and of the CD555 at a fraction of the price of the ND555. You still would need a good S/PDIF source of course and you would have all the advantages (and the disadvantages) of separated source and digital-to-analogue conversion, included the possibility of upgrading to a NDAC2 if this becomes finally available.

Gazza posted:

Michael in Norfolk also went from CD555 to ND555, and was going to keep his CD555, but realised he was unlikely to use it that much. He has now traded the CD555 in against his ND555.

Yes correct, and I was pleased to assume, judging by its removal from my dealer’s pre loved listing, that it has found a new home. I endorse all that DB says as regards the comparison and yes being in my 70s I have been used all my life to physically placing a record or later a cd on a player and reading the artwork which I shall miss with cd, however my LP12 will never be leaving so I can still enjoy that aspect of the experience.

The ND555 opens up a whole new world with hi-res and the like, without the worry of a failing cd transport, my CD555 was on its second one. In my system the new streamer is a breath of fresh air and I am rediscovering my favourite music yet again as I have done at every upgrade step along the way from a 32.5/140 through 52/2x135s with NBLs to my current ND555/552/500 full SL loom system still with the NBLs.

A great journey to have travelled.

nbpf posted:

Darke Bear posted:

The ND555 when well installed and set-up is a bit better than the CD555 in some areas and not obviously worse anywhere. But the devices are different and going back to play a CD on my CD555 yesterday I just really enjoyed it for the musical experience and no-fuss quality it gave me.

...

I might have missed some of your (very interesting, thanks!) posts in this very rich thread but have you tried the ND555 fed through its S/PDIF interface during your demo? If also in this setup the ND555 turned out to be "a bit better than the CD555 in some areas and not obviously worse anywhere" and if you wanted to take advantage of the convenience of LAN and internet streaming, you could then also consider an old Naim DAC as an alternative to a new ND555 . It would provide you with the same DAC chips of the ND555 (in an older implementation, of course) and of the CD555 at a fraction of the price of the ND555. You still would need a good S/PDIF source of course and you would have all the advantages (and the disadvantages) of separated source and digital-to-analogue conversion, included the possibility of upgrading to a NDAC2 if this becomes finally available.

The ND555 vs DAC question goes much beyond the DAC chips - e.g.

The upsampling and digital low pass filter.

The ‘grade’ of PCM1704 used, both manufacturer stage and Naim’s own grading.

DR Regulators for local regulation.

Suspended boards to reduce microphony.

They really are different beasts... I have owned both, and the ND555 is a massive uplift in performance.

Dave.

Michael posted:

Gazza posted:

Michael in Norfolk also went from CD555 to ND555, and was going to keep his CD555, but realised he was unlikely to use it that much. He has now traded the CD555 in against his ND555.

Yes correct, and I was pleased to assume, judging by its removal from my dealer’s pre loved listing, that it has found a new home. I endorse all that DB says as regards the comparison and yes being in my 70s I have been used all my life to physically placing a record or later a cd on a player and reading the artwork which I shall miss with cd, however my LP12 will never be leaving so I can still enjoy that aspect of the experience.

The ND555 opens up a whole new world with hi-res and the like, without the worry of a failing cd transport, my CD555 was on its second one. In my system the new streamer is a breath of fresh air and I am rediscovering my favourite music yet again as I have done at every upgrade step along the way from a 32.5/140 through 52/2x135s with NBLs to my current ND555/552/500 full SL loom system still with the NBLs.

A great journey to have travelled.

I also noticed your player has disappeared from the listing, so someone has got a lovely player.

DaveBk posted:

nbpf posted:

Darke Bear posted:

The ND555 when well installed and set-up is a bit better than the CD555 in some areas and not obviously worse anywhere. But the devices are different and going back to play a CD on my CD555 yesterday I just really enjoyed it for the musical experience and no-fuss quality it gave me.

...

I might have missed some of your (very interesting, thanks!) posts in this very rich thread but have you tried the ND555 fed through its S/PDIF interface during your demo? If also in this setup the ND555 turned out ...

...

They really are different beasts... I have owned both, and the ND555 is a massive uplift in performance.

Dave.

That's what I would expect and most ND555 owners have indeed reported that the ND555 is a significant improvement over the NDS. In turn, the general wisdom is that the NDS is an improvement (albeit perhaps not so significant) over the nDAC. Thus, I am not in any way suggesting that for most listeners an nDAC would be a viable alternative to a ND555.

On the other hand, DB has found that in his system the ND555 is only "a bit better" than his CD555. Perhaps his preferences are different from the average preferences or his system is just different. In this case, a second hand nDAC (with a PCM1704K implementation similat to that of the CD555) could be a more suitable (and certainly less expensive) entry point to streaming than an ND555 with a more recent PCM1704K implementation, especially if the possibility of an nDAC2 upgrade path is taken into account.

Please don't interpret it that I'm saying what I'm not!
The ND555 is great - I want one and am bending all forces of nature to see if I can make that happen sooner rather than later!

We have a tendency to work in a 'better vs worse' single-level analytic one-dimensional evaluation of things sometimes with HiFi and life is not structured that way I find. There are a mesh of important musical parameters that weave together to define the musical capability of the different systems and in this case the two fine sources: ND555 and CD555.

Leaving aside that the CD555 can only play CDs - 100% of my music is that way right now - and that ND555 has other features I'm limiting myself to the effect on me when playing an Album. What goes into this effect apart from my state of mind and emotions at the time are the sound-quality of replay (with all the mesh of musical aspects) and the music navigation hassle (or not).

CD555 is not perfect but it is plonk in CD and play and it does that well with its own set of musical qualities with no stress (on me).
ND555 also is not perfect - allows more flexible access to music and play-options - and plays with its own similar but different set of musical qualities with a little more initial stress on me.

The latter are the UI issues I mention and some of that will disappear when I learn how to better work-around them and hopefully they get better resolved by an App update I understand for other reasons is in the works.

But on music experience effect both are fine sources with the impression onto me that I can do more with the ND555 going ahead and that it does and can do some musical aspects obviously better than the CD555. But the CD555 has its own charm and I'm used to what it does so there will be a 'keying-in' effect to the music I have written into my neurons in my brain that it instantly gets as a boost when I use it. The ND555 has its own charm and I will eventually get used to what it offers too over more time is my view and impression right now.

I'm just not going to say the CD555 is rubbish now the ND555 is here when that is not so to my hearing. If picking a CD555 up at a discounted price right now I'd be adding an enormous replay capability. If purchasing CD555 or ND555 full-price then the ND555 is the obvious way to go. But I already have a CD555, so it is just - for me - managing that transition. I may keep the CD555 or may trade it in - that is where I personally am now. I'm not saying anything other than that.

DB.

Hello DB

Perhaps the NDX2/PSU would allow your to keep the CD555 and get most of the upside of the ND555.  We will find out soon how good the NDX2 is.  I know that the upgrade to an NDX2 allows me to keep engaged in my other passions--which is an overall better lifestyle for me. 

Bailyhill

Cd555 is a keeper, it is classic already.... anyone who trade it for 2k will regret it.. 

Hi all,

I may of missed this, is the ND555 using the  same firmware as the NDS?