ND555 Impressions

Dustysox posted:

Hi all,

I may of missed this, is the ND555 using the  same firmware as the NDS?

I very much doubt it - it's on a different platform. 

Gazza posted:

Well just booked my demo for next Thursday. NDX2, then 555ps.....then ND555 with power supplies-also with a 252/Supercap/nap300. I have then asked to go back to NDX2 with 555ps.....but with a 552 preamp. The latter was kind of bugging me after recent posts from Simon and others about the 552. Should be a good session, with lashings of coffee from the Signals guys.

Gazza, Looking forward to your feedback form you demo. Sounds very interesting.

nbpf posted:

DaveBk posted:

nbpf posted:

Darke Bear posted:

The ND555 when well installed and set-up is a bit better than the CD555 in some areas and not obviously worse anywhere. But the devices are different and going back to play a CD on my CD555 yesterday I just really enjoyed it for the musical experience and no-fuss quality it gave me.

...

I might have missed some of your (very interesting, thanks!) posts in this very rich thread but have you tried the ND555 fed through its S/PDIF interface during your demo? If also in this setup the ND555 turned out ...

...

They really are different beasts... I have owned both, and the ND555 is a massive uplift in performance.

Dave.

That's what I would expect and most ND555 owners have indeed reported that the ND555 is a significant improvement over the NDS. In turn, the general wisdom is that the NDS is an improvement (albeit perhaps not so significant) over the nDAC. Thus, I am not in any way suggesting that for most listeners an nDAC would be a viable alternative to a ND555.

On the other hand, DB has found that in his system the ND555 is only "a bit better" than his CD555. Perhaps his preferences are different from the average preferences or his system is just different. In this case, a second hand nDAC (with a PCM1704K implementation similat to that of the CD555) could be a more suitable (and certainly less expensive) entry point to streaming than an ND555 with a more recent PCM1704K implementation, especially if the possibility of an nDAC2 upgrade path is taken into account.

There are many paths to audio nirvana...

I’ve never heard the CD555 at home, so I can’t express a view based on personal experience, but I suspect it still beats the Naim DAC by a significant margin. Whether there will ever be a DAC2 is debatable, and only Naim know the answer; personally I suspect not.

DB likes to experiment to optimise his personal experience, as do I to an extent, but in this case my results are different. I have tried the ultimate ‘unplug the network’ test while playing and do not hear any difference, so I have concludes that the ND555 successfully ameloriates more of the network related interference the previous generation of streamers. We all agree the ND555 is good, very very good, possibly the best... but the CD555 was no slouch, but limited to 16/44.

I’ve arrived at a place where I have a solid network, mains supply and room acoustic, so I’m less inclined to tinker and am just sitting back in my sofa and enjoying the music.

We should all remember that DB is using the S1 Statement preamp in his system, which by all reports is considerably more revealing than the 552.  This may contribute to his nuanced perceptions of ND555 performance in various network configurations.

aht posted:

We should all remember that DB is using the S1 Statement preamp in his system, which by all reports is considerably more revealing than the 552.  This may contribute to his nuanced perceptions of ND555 performance in various network configurations.

Yup, agreed, All I can report is what I hear.

Bailyhill posted:

Hello DB

Perhaps the NDX2/PSU would allow your to keep the CD555 and get most of the upside of the ND555.  We will find out soon how good the NDX2 is.  I know that the upgrade to an NDX2 allows me to keep engaged in my other passions--which is an overall better lifestyle for me. 

Bailyhill

I get what you say about life-balance of expenditure on Hobbies and other pleasures.

I'm retired with finite funds that need to cover a lot of things, but I'm obviously passionate about my musical experience and the ND555 did show more is indeed possible - if implemented in my system with some care to details. The ND555 wore my system like a glove it was made for - perhaps not a surprise - and it is always tough to risk a home-demo if you get a good result. I'm very pleased with the results but it now is a matter of timing and verifying that I have indeed fixed my Car that went into a recent non-functional mode. Sometimes for these big spend splurges I need everything ship-shape and otherwise going OK and not find unwelcome problems emerging from where I was not expecting.

In the medium to long-term I'll very probably have an ND555 and possibly sooner if I can clear other things nibbling at wanting money right now.

The NDX2 is what some other friends are also looking to investigate. I'm not clear it will be better than the NDS as it does not have the latter's internal suspended sub-chassis, but may have other tech-improvements that give it an edge elsewhere.

But I'm thinking there will be a number of SH NDS units appearing from ND555 upgrades that make an appealing choice to hear against the NDX2 - but I've not done that comparison.

DB.

aht posted:

We should all remember that DB is using the S1 Statement preamp in his system, which by all reports is considerably more revealing than the 552.  This may contribute to his nuanced perceptions of ND555 performance in various network configurations.

I think that the S1 Pre and Active system does have the effect of being very revealing. Sometimes too much so - but mainly I identify offenders and eliminate them and it is wonderful.

The new Naim Active systems with DR Reference and Statement also seem more robust in that there is less in the system itself that unwantedly calls attention to itself. Still a fussy install, but then seems to be 'forget it and play' a lot more than old-days Naim stuff I remember.

DB.

It must be some weird psychological thing, but I placed an order for an ND555 on Tuesday and ever since then my NDS has been really cooking! 

Richieroo posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Last week I had lunch with a couple of old work colleagues and told them I was going to hear a £20k streamer.  When I went on to explain that it still needed an amplifier and speakers there was a silence

Yup I have had this .......... I have learnt to keep sh-tum..........each to there own........audiophiles are considered as nutters......there is an ace video on you tube .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qHvOaUYwWQ  where  jurors are exposed to a top flight audio system as part of the trial ........... its worth watching....

That’s an ace YouTube clip indeed, thanks for the link!

Mine has never sounded better either. Mind you, this should not be surprising.

aht posted:

We should all remember that DB is using the S1 Statement preamp in his system, which by all reports is considerably more revealing than the 552.  This may contribute to his nuanced perceptions of ND555 performance in various network configurations.

That's why I was suggesting to also try the USB and S/PDIF inputs of the ND555: to keep the network out of the equation. The ND555 has three inputs and they all can be used to stream high resolution files from a UPnP server. In absence of careful comparisons, it seems a bit pointless to assume that ethernet is without exceptions the best input. On the other hand, the experiments reported by DAVEBK suggest that Naim has managed to isolate the ND555 from the network very well. Anyway, as more users play around with their ND555s we will have a better picture of the capabilities and of the advantages and disadvantages of the different ND555 inputs.

Darke Bear posted:

Bailyhill posted:

Hello DB

Perhaps the NDX2/PSU would allow your to keep the CD555 and get most of the upside of the ND555.  We will find out soon how good the NDX2 is.  I know that the upgrade to an NDX2 allows me to keep engaged in my other passions--which is an overall better lifestyle for me. 

Bailyhill

I get what you say about life-balance of expenditure on Hobbies and other pleasures.

I'm retired with finite funds that need to cover a lot of things, but I'm obviously passionate about my musical experience and the ND555 did show more is indeed possible - if implemented in my system with some care to details. The ND555 wore my system like a glove it was made for - perhaps not a surprise - and it is always tough to risk a home-demo if you get a good result. I'm very pleased with the results but it now is a matter of timing and verifying that I have indeed fixed my Car that went into a recent non-functional mode. Sometimes for these big spend splurges I need everything ship-shape and otherwise going OK and not find unwelcome problems emerging from where I was not expecting.

In the medium to long-term I'll very probably have an ND555 and possibly sooner if I can clear other things nibbling at wanting money right now.

The NDX2 is what some other friends are also looking to investigate. I'm not clear it will be better than the NDS as it does not have the latter's internal suspended sub-chassis, but may have other tech-improvements that give it an edge elsewhere.

But I'm thinking there will be a number of SH NDS units appearing from ND555 upgrades that make an appealing choice to hear against the NDX2 - but I've not done that comparison.

DB.

The one review out on NDX2 out there , reviewer compared to NDS with same 555DR power supply and said NDS sounded slightly better . It (NDS) had more boogie to it he said ! Meaning he got more enjoyment from the sound. 

After a week of having the Core on the brawn stack I moved it upstairs to its intended position. This adds another cisco switch (just an 8 port consumer one) and a run of 5e plastered into the wall. The result has been somewhat disappointing though it improved when I restored cable dressing that had been disturbed when the Core was removed but it still didn’t seen to give the delight it had been. The cable in the wall was installed before I had any intension of streaming and the first thing it was used for was a smart telly and there staring at me was a large ferrite with a couple of loops round it  that the TV manual had said to fit to the cable where it plugged into the wall. This cable now feeds my living room switch, removing the ferrite and straightening the loops has brought about considerable improvement, maybe a complete cure but time and a temporary Core move my have to determine that.

Clive B posted:

It must be some weird psychological thing, but I placed an order for an ND555 on Tuesday and ever since then my NDS has been really cooking! 

Understand that feeling Clive . My NDS sounds great and I keep wondering is the ND555 that much better ! NDS is an excellent streamer still. 

Okay I heard this box today.   Thanks to the team at Cymbiosis for arranging such a great event and to Mark from Naim for conducting such a good demo.   

First, no level of sonic excellence can disguise just how pompous and over indulgent Yes were.  Seriously,  choice of music is fundamental and will inevitably influence your judgement.   But I did think it was a tad bright.   As to the improvement over the NDS clearly the resolution is greater with greater atmospherics but whether I’d commit to the switch if I were an NDS owner I can’t say without a  home demo with my music.   However, I’m not in that place!

But I spent quite a bit of time discussing the benefits of the Uniticore vs DbPoweramp.    I have to say I’m impressed with the simplicity of the Core. It performed a perfect rip of one of my classical CDs metadata and all, but equally I recognise the editing capabilities of Db.   I’ve booked in next month to discuss further and for a full demo of a NDX2 - initial response very impressed but not enough time to properly assess.   

But as I always say - it’s all good. 

Regards,

Lindsay

Hi Lindsay

Thanks for your impressions of the demo.  I am a little confused as to when you are speaking about the ND555 and when the NDX2.  Could you clarify?

Bailyhill

Sorry the main demo to which I refer above was the ND555.  I only heard the NDX2 in passing, which was only 24 hours out of the box so need to return for a full demo.  

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay I heard this box today.   Thanks to the team at Cymbiosis for arranging such a great event and to Mark from Naim for conducting such a good demo.   

First, no level of sonic excellence can disguise just how pompous and over indulgent Yes were.  Seriously,  choice of music is fundamental and will inevitably influence your judgement.   But I did think it was a tad bright.   As to the improvement over the NDS clearly the resolution is greater with greater atmospherics but whether I’d commit to the switch if I were an NDS owner I can’t say without a  home demo with my music.   However, I’m not in that place!

But I spent quite a bit of time discussing the benefits of the Uniticore vs DbPoweramp.    I have to say I’m impressed with the simplicity of the Core. It performed a perfect rip of one of my classical CDs metadata and all, but equally I recognise the editing capabilities of Db.   I’ve booked in next month to discuss further and for a full demo of a NDX2 - initial response very impressed but not enough time to properly assess.   

But as I always say - it’s all good. 

Regards,

Lindsay

Is 555 too bright to listen to? Do you think it was fully burned in ?  

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay I heard this box today.   Thanks to the team at Cymbiosis for arranging such a great event and to Mark from Naim for conducting such a good demo.   

First, no level of sonic excellence can disguise just how pompous and over indulgent Yes were.  Seriously,  choice of music is fundamental and will inevitably influence your judgement.   But I did think it was a tad bright.   As to the improvement over the NDS clearly the resolution is greater with greater atmospherics but whether I’d commit to the switch if I were an NDS owner I can’t say without a  home demo with my music.   However, I’m not in that place!

But I spent quite a bit of time discussing the benefits of the Uniticore vs DbPoweramp.    I have to say I’m impressed with the simplicity of the Core. It performed a perfect rip of one of my classical CDs metadata and all, but equally I recognise the editing capabilities of Db.   I’ve booked in next month to discuss further and for a full demo of a NDX2 - initial response very impressed but not enough time to properly assess.   

But as I always say - it’s all good. 

Regards,

Lindsay

What speakers did they use for the demo Lindsay ? Did you have any idea how long they had run in the ND555 before you listened to it ? 

It was a very good event as ever @ Cymbiosis and they had a fresh out of the box bare NDX2 and week run in ND 555

Systems were NDX2, 252, SCDR,300 DR into Kudos super 20a

Both NDS & ND 555 were 555PS, 552, 300dr, into Kudos Titans T808 SL speaker cables

Spent a long time in NDX2 demo, this is more my budget – it was straight out of the box and bare – very nice-looking unit certainly pleasing on the eye – it got better and better through the hour or so in the room – I certainly want to go back when warmed up

The ND 555 demo, first the NDS was demo, then same peace of music through ND 555 and then ND555 showed us what it can do

Got to say the choice of Music for the ND555 would not of been what I would of chosen but they we go

My conclusions

• NDX2 – I need to go back and listen again but liked the sound and focus it gave music was certainly starting to get for detailed through demo. So the Snake Oil must of been taking effect!
• NDS with 555 – showed what music it can play detailed with a lovely rich sound
• ND 555 – even more detail than NDS,  greater focus and musicality came through

  For me my “actions points” go back in few weeks and listen to NDX2,  

 has the NDX2 as this point made me reach for the £££ well maybe but not on NDX2 what is has done is given me some real directional choices

 Like me If don’t stream so UpNP and Iradio – so I see myself as having few more options open so additions to NDX2 are not that important to me, only issue will be the future size of the music files but very happy at the moment with 24/192

 Add 555 PSU to my current NDX

1. Sell my NDX get a 555psu  and get NDS
2. Sell NDX and get NDX 2
3. Keep NDX and continue the development of my LP12???

Very interesting evening good to meet other forum members as well and share very much food for thought which are what this events are for – great new streamers that’s a fact, but in NO way are the current NDX and NDS ready for the bin

thanks as ever to Peter, Phil Wayne and moreover Alison for food and refreshments! and the team from NAIM

antony d posted:

It was a very good event as ever @ Cymbiosis and they had a fresh out of the box bare NDX2 and week run in ND 555

Systems were NDX2, 252, SCDR,300 DR into Kudos super 20a

Both NDS & ND 555 were 555PS, 552, 300dr, into Kudos Titans T808 SL speaker cables

Spent a long time in NDX2 demo, this is more my budget – it was straight out of the box and bare – very nice-looking unit certainly pleasing on the eye – it got better and better through the hour or so in the room – I certainly want to go back when warmed up

The ND 555 demo, first the NDS was demo, then same peace of music through ND 555 and then ND555 showed us what it can do

Got to say the choice of Music for the ND555 would not of been what I would of chosen but they we go

My conclusions

• NDX2 – I need to go back and listen again but liked the sound and focus it gave music was certainly starting to get for detailed through demo. So the Snake Oil must of been taking effect!
• NDS with 555 – showed what music it can play detailed with a lovely rich sound
• ND 555 – even more detail than NDS,  greater focus and musicality came through

  For me my “actions points” go back in few weeks and listen to NDX2,  

 has the NDX2 as this point made me reach for the £££ well maybe but not on NDX2 what is has done is given me some real directional choices

 Like me If don’t stream so UpNP and Iradio – so I see myself as having few more options open so additions to NDX2 are not that important to me, only issue will be the future size of the music files but very happy at the moment with 24/192

 Add 555 PSU to my current NDX

1. Sell my NDX get a 555psu  and get NDS
2. Sell NDX and get NDX 2
3. Keep NDX and continue the development of my LP12???

Very interesting evening good to meet other forum members as well and share very much food for thought which are what this events are for – great new streamers that’s a fact, but in NO way are the current NDX and NDS ready for the bin

thanks as ever to Peter, Phil Wayne and moreover Alison for food and refreshments! and the team from NAIM

Did you have a feel how the NDX2 compares to the NDS ?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

 

But I spent quite a bit of time discussing the benefits of the Uniticore vs DbPoweramp.    I have to say I’m impressed with the simplicity of the Core. It performed a perfect rip of one of my classical CDs metadata and all, but equally I recognise the editing capabilities of Db.  

This is interesting. dBpoweramp also does perfect rips and embeds the metadata (which you have full control of pre and post ripping) in the WAV file, not in a separate file which cannot be read by anything except a Naim server. So what is the dealer trying to imply? That a Naim ripper can do something that an application like dBpoweramp cannot? Bullshit alert!

We are each free to use whatever ripping and tagging solution we want. No justification needed. No argument. But when a dealer (or was it Naim> tries to justify something by using bullshit, you have to wonder what they are hiding.

Bert Schurink posted:

Did you have a feel how the NDX2 compares to the NDS ?

Burt,

the NDS was well burnt in and settled, Cymbiosis had only just recieved the NDX2, on yesterday alone the NDS had more detail greater focus, that being said the NDX2 was getting better and better, hope to hear it again soon

for me at the moment if (like me) you don't need Cromecast Roon etc etc - then is the NDS - but the true test will be NDX2/555 vs NDS/555 which I am sure [@mention:1566878603906177] can offer demo once NDX2 burns in

new streamers are very and I mean very good! does that mean we all need to sell NDX/NDS in NO way

as ever the only true way is demo on a like for like basis and make informed choice

Peter from Cymbiosis has just posted that the NDX2 was bare last night with no power supply, so not truly a fair comparison with NDS and 555ps? NDX2 must have been pretty good to hold its own without external power.

Harry posted:

 Bullshit alert!  ..............  We are each free to use whatever ripping and tagging solution we want. No justification needed. No argument. But when a dealer (or was it Naim) tries to justify something by using bullshit, you have to wonder what they are hiding.

 Buffalo poop aside I suspect its more like the dealers attempt at justifying the why's & wherefores (dare I mention the price) of the Core.     If you have a large collection of CD's to rip,  maybe a logical reason to buy one.   But those with already ripped collections just need a PC or laptop with DVD drive & dBpoweramp.   dBp rips to AccurateRip or Ultra Secure, both bit perfect,   & to reiterate the point,  dBpoweramp WAV rips can replay on anything.