ND555 Impressions

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

So many people devising schemes and mathematical calculations to swing a ND555. Bit like an addict.

As I have said before, Naim should really be setting a support mechanism for us junkies.

Just say NAA (Naim Audio Anonymous).

Resistance is useless!

And the answer is 42 .................. or, £££££, if you like!

Dave, you are beginning to sound a bit like a pusher!

Mike Sullivan posted:

So, if you are starting from scratch, what’s the minimum you need to go with the ND555 then, excluding speakers? How much Cha-ching?

Scratch? Don’t say that please, you’re making me itch. 

Any decent system will show the benefit of a good source. In the 70s there were plenty of people running a fully tricked out LP12 on the front of £120 worth of amps and speakers. It's no different now.  If it works properly and sounds good, you will never have too good a source. And if you gradually upgrade the rest of the system, the source will just keep sounding better.

nigelb posted:

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

So many people devising schemes and mathematical calculations to swing a ND555. Bit like an addict.

As I have said before, Naim should really be setting a support mechanism for us junkies.

Just say NAA (Naim Audio Anonymous).

Resistance is useless!

And the answer is 42 .................. or, £££££, if you like!

Dave, you are beginning to sound a bit like a pusher!

Sorry Nigel,

It’s just that I have found the Naim journey to have been relatively easy to bear, thanks to my dealer.

The various outlays over the years have always been rendered relatively painless as the result of his “out of the box thinking” approach.

I do accept that the ND 555 represents a major outlay, but any current NDS owners who might be contemplating the move, and who are somewhat underwhelmed by their trade-in values, might just be talking to the wrong people.

But yes, the ND 555 is quite stunning, and you really have to find a way to make it work for you............... honestly! ????????????????????

nigelb posted:

I notice that quite a few Dealer demos of the ND555 have been done with the 252, so I assume it must be capable to showing the gulf between the NDS and ND555.

No doubt about that!

Bailyhill posted:

rjstaines posted:

robbo posted:

I have “the beast” on loan for the weekend. I really wasn’t expecting it to be this good. Only a few evenings back I was wondering how the NDS could be bettered. What I perceived to be a speaker problem has been quite simply addressed through slotting in the 555 - much more control and dynamics, the speakers have simply come to life. The first hour of smiling has now become dread as I face convincing the wife that we simply have to get this (it is after all cheaper than replacing the speakers :-) ).

As I said a while back on this very thread... "These home demos of ND555 are nothing short of wreckless behaviour".   It seems to be getting out of hand 

This is starting get serious, as I am starting to think about this, and I am in the USA, so hope for a home demo, but certainly rethinking about the NDX2 decision that was made a month ago or so.  Perhaps should bite the bullet?  Now that I have solved the limiting problem of using a DAC V1.

Bailyhill

Never mind 'bite the bullet', Bailyhill,  you should suck it in, chew it around and swallow it.  Failing to do this will result in endless beating yourself up, wondering what could have been. 

Go ahead... you know it makes sense 

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

So many people devising schemes and mathematical calculations to swing a ND555. Bit like an addict.

As I have said before, Naim should really be setting a support mechanism for us junkies.

Just say NAA (Naim Audio Anonymous).

Resistance is useless!

And the answer is 42 .................. or, £££££, if you like!

Dave, you are beginning to sound a bit like a pusher!

Sorry Nigel,

It’s just that I have found the Naim journey to have been relatively easy to bear, thanks to my dealer.

The various outlays over the years have always been rendered relatively painless as the result of his “out of the box thinking” approach.

I do accept that the ND 555 represents a major outlay, but any current NDS owners who might be contemplating the move, and who are somewhat underwhelmed by their trade-in values, might just be talking to the wrong people.

But yes, the ND 555 is quite stunning, and you really have to find a way to make it work for you............... honestly! ????????????????????

Just imagine what the one- off special that was made for Roy George as a retirement present sounds like. Perhaps it had special components, no screen.....we will never know????

dave marshall posted:

I do accept that the ND 555 represents a major outlay, but any current NDS owners who might be contemplating the move, and who are somewhat underwhelmed by their trade-in values, might just be talking to the wrong people.

I don't think it's quite as easy as talking to another retailer. I have, for instance, enjoyed quite good service from my local retailer, including an overnight home loan of a ND555 before I made the decision to buy. He also arranged a loan NAP500DR for me before I elected to have the DR upgrade done on mine and has loaned me a NAP200 while it is away being done. So, although his trade in offer for my NDS does not look very attractive, I realise that I need to consider the costs incurred for providing this level of service. Furthermore, the retailer will still need to make a profit and charge VAT on the resale of my NDS and I suspect the NDX2 has killed the market for secondhand NDS. 

If anyone needs any further convincing of ND555 superiority they should go to the road shows currently being run. I went to the one held by Audio T on Thursday night in Brighton at the Jury's Inn hotel.

A great talk by Jason (from Naim) on the thinking behind the ND555. This was followed by three nicely recorded song played on an NDS through 552/500/ATC system. A final song was played and then the NDS was swapped to the ND555.

From where I was sitting it was like playing a different piece of music. The band suddenly relaxed, the interplay betwen instruments became much more noticeable, timing improved, bass became more agile and there were spaces between notes that you only notice when you hear it.

Oh...Jason also added a second 555PS into the mix towards the end of the evening. It definitely added a touch more clarity but it was nowhere near as significant  as going from the NDS to ND555.

A very convincing demonstration. I thought the ATC's that Audio T were using sounded  particularly good with a nice simple 'retro' look to them. Not sure what model but they were big.

Last night was Music Night - a bi-monthly event where up to seven friends gather for beer, pizza and great tunes. 

It was my turn to host and I was about to run the vacuum cleaner round when I noticed an early arrival parking up. He just happens to be a Naim dealer (known to Harry, Clive and Peter) and he just happened to have an ND555 with him. He suggested it would be perfectly sensible to leave it in the car but, clearly, that wasn’t going to happen!

Anyway, it’s fair to say it is as good as everyone says. Power, control, finesse, detail and fun. With seven highly refreshed  people in the room and the volume higher than it would be for normal listening it wasn’t a proper demo so I hope it won’t lead to dissatisfaction with the NDS as there’s no way can justify the cost at this point in my life. I  will probably DR the 555PS first.

It is rather good though. 

Keith

Clive B posted:

dave marshall posted:

I do accept that the ND 555 represents a major outlay, but any current NDS owners who might be contemplating the move, and who are somewhat underwhelmed by their trade-in values, might just be talking to the wrong people.

I don't think it's quite as easy as talking to another retailer. I have, for instance, enjoyed quite good service from my local retailer, including an overnight home loan of a ND555 before I made the decision to buy. He also arranged a loan NAP500DR for me before I elected to have the DR upgrade done on mine and has loaned me a NAP200 while it is away being done. So, although his trade in offer for my NDS does not look very attractive, I realise that I need to consider the costs incurred for providing this level of service. Furthermore, the retailer will still need to make a profit and charge VAT on the resale of my NDS and I suspect the NDX2 has killed the market for secondhand NDS. 

I think that's a very sensible approach, Clive.  We're not talking about retailers' 'price-matching' in trying to sell you a washing machine.  For me, the quality and care of advice, in-store and at-home demos, and subsequent support is far, far more important that plus or minus a few quid on trade-in prices etc. Over the years I've lost count of the number of times my dealer has popped round to make an adjustment e.g. to speaker position, firmware update, revelling the rack, to ensure the system sounds as good as it should. It's that service and support that allows me to sit back and enjoy my system on an enduring basis.

Mike 

Geko posted:

If anyone needs any further convincing of ND555 superiority they should go to the road shows currently being run. I went to the one held by Audio T on Thursday night in Brighton at the Jury's Inn hotel.

A great talk by Jason (from Naim) on the thinking behind the ND555. This was followed by three nicely recorded song played on an NDS through 552/500/ATC system. A final song was played and then the NDS was swapped to the ND555.

From where I was sitting it was like playing a different piece of music. The band suddenly relaxed, the interplay betwen instruments became much more noticeable, timing improved, bass became more agile and there were spaces between notes that you only notice when you hear it.

Oh...Jason also added a second 555PS into the mix towards the end of the evening. It definitely added a touch more clarity but it was nowhere near as significant  as going from the NDS to ND555.

A very convincing demonstration. I thought the ATC's that Audio T were using sounded  particularly good with a nice simple 'retro' look to them. Not sure what model but they were big.

Couldn't agree more.....the demo's prove how good the ND555 is.

We were also at the Brighton demo evening and thoroughly enjoyed the event; our thanks go to Julian, John and Paul from AudioT and to Jason from Naim who answered a number of technical questions we had regarding Naim's views on the various network interfaces/prtocols that are becoming available with the new streamers.

We had in fact already ordered our ND555 a couple of weeks ago after a demo at AudioT in Brighton but that demo was with much lesser speakers and we were keen to hear the ND555 with better ones even though the streamer had already proven itself to us. The  ATC's worked very well indeed conveying a wonderful mid range in particular. The addition of the second power supply, to our ears, had a very pronounced and beneficial effect. It really seemed to sharpen/tighten/focus the soundscape in a truly musical manner. As stated by Gecko the transition from NDS to ND555 is the greatest gain but the second PS really does work well. We thought it very cruel to add that section into the demo as well!

Eagerly awaiting the delivery of our ND555 and definitely going down the "LA LA LA, NOT LISTENING, LA LA LA" (to quote another forum member) path regarding second powers supplies at present. Anyway, there is no more space and we don't remember seeing anyone recommending a 555PS to be stood on end by the side of rest of the rack!!!

Leith posted:

Geko posted:

If anyone needs any further convincing of ND555 superiority they should go to the road shows currently being run. I went to the one held by Audio T on Thursday night in Brighton at the Jury's Inn hotel.

A great talk by Jason (from Naim) on the thinking behind the ND555. This was followed by three nicely recorded song played on an NDS through 552/500/ATC system. A final song was played and then the NDS was swapped to the ND555.

From where I was sitting it was like playing a different piece of music. The band suddenly relaxed, the interplay betwen instruments became much more noticeable, timing improved, bass became more agile and there were spaces between notes that you only notice when you hear it.

Oh...Jason also added a second 555PS into the mix towards the end of the evening. It definitely added a touch more clarity but it was nowhere near as significant  as going from the NDS to ND555.

A very convincing demonstration. I thought the ATC's that Audio T were using sounded  particularly good with a nice simple 'retro' look to them. Not sure what model but they were big.

Couldn't agree more.....the demo's prove how good the ND555 is.

We were also at the Brighton demo evening and thoroughly enjoyed the event; our thanks go to Julian, John and Paul from AudioT and to Jason from Naim who answered a number of technical questions we had regarding Naim's views on the various network interfaces/prtocols that are becoming available with the new streamers.

We had in fact already ordered our ND555 a couple of weeks ago after a demo at AudioT in Brighton but that demo was with much lesser speakers and we were keen to hear the ND555 with better ones even though the streamer had already proven itself to us. The  ATC's worked very well indeed conveying a wonderful mid range in particular. The addition of the second power supply, to our ears, had a very pronounced and beneficial effect. It really seemed to sharpen/tighten/focus the soundscape in a truly musical manner. As stated by Gecko the transition from NDS to ND555 is the greatest gain but the second PS really does work well. We thought it very cruel to add that section into the demo as well!

Eagerly awaiting the delivery of our ND555 and definitely going down the "LA LA LA, NOT LISTENING, LA LA LA" (to quote another forum member) path regarding second powers supplies at present. Anyway, there is no more space and we don't remember seeing anyone recommending a 555PS to be stood on end by the side of rest of the rack!!!

 

It’s very painful to see this messages flowing in on the 2nd ps, I had the illusion that I already was in heaven with one......

Bert....don't let it pain you. You already have the ND555 which is by far the greatest gain. Enjoy it as you have been.

Even Jason from Naim said that the second PS is something you need to consider in the cotext of your system following a full home demo. He definitely wasn't stating that you should just head out the door and buy a second one!

We are not going down the second PS path now....but its good to know that further upgrade can be made later if one wishes!

Leith posted:

Bert....don't let it pain you. You already have the ND555 which is by far the greatest gain. Enjoy it as you have been.

Even Jason from Naim said that the second PS is something you need to consider in the cotext of your system following a full home demo. He definitely wasn't stating that you should just head out the door and buy a second one!

We are not going down the second PS path now....but its good to know that further upgrade can be made later if one wishes!

When I spoke to Steve Sells at the Bristol Show he was pretty adamant that 2 supplies were not needed to get the vastly improved experience available from ND555.

Most Naim upgrades make a great system sound even better by building on their strengths. My impression from last night was that ND555 takes the music to a quite different place without compromising what I already liked. I sat here and thought - oh, I didn’t know that could happen. 

kevin J Carden posted:

Leith posted:

Bert....don't let it pain you. You already have the ND555 which is by far the greatest gain. Enjoy it as you have been.

Even Jason from Naim said that the second PS is something you need to consider in the cotext of your system following a full home demo. He definitely wasn't stating that you should just head out the door and buy a second one!

We are not going down the second PS path now....but its good to know that further upgrade can be made later if one wishes!

When I spoke to Steve Sells at the Bristol Show he was pretty adamant that 2 supplies were not needed to get the vastly improved experience available from ND555.

Get that, but it is something which might become an option in the future when I have had the funds to move my 500 to DR first. I still remember when I visited Naim some years ago what a 2nd PS did to the NDS, it was truly transformational. It brought especially the tonal accuracy on a complete different level. Now I guess the effect on the ND555 might be different, but it is still something which I will keep on my list of desires. The ND555 was also very long on my list, as I always assumed that Naim would create a streaming source on 500 level.

Harry posted:

Any decent system will show the benefit of a good source. In the 70s there were plenty of people running a fully tricked out LP12 on the front of £120 worth of amps and speakers. It's no different now.  If it works properly and sounds good, you will never have too good a source. And if you gradually upgrade the rest of the system, the source will just keep sounding better.

Harry, very true I am finding the ND555 with a single 555PS a truly astonishing source in my 252 based system heaven knows what it sounds like with two power supplies in a 500 system.

The 252 is a wonderful amp. The best value for money pre in the Naim range IMO. The ND555 should sing with it.

Speaking of IMO. I'm sure what Steve said about the single 555PS is true as long as you can listen through his ears. Those of us who use our own ears in our own rooms with our own systems will, as ever, be well advised to draw our own conclusions.

In the artificially induced gravitational pull of new product discourse, it is worth trying to remember, if at all possible (we're only human) that something that can run on either 1or 2 PSs doesn't need both to work properly. It's about performance at a given price point. I bought a CD5 for it's performance at the £1K price point. The fact that it could be pulled up to a higher performance level by a HiCap didn't factor in when I only had £1K to spend. Ditto CDX2 and CDX2/XPS2. Ditto DAC and DAC/XPS2 and DAC/555PS. Ditto NDS/555PS and NDS/555PS-DR and NDS/555PS-DR/555PS and NDS/555PS-DR/555PS-DR. You don't always get what you pay for in life. With Naim, you tend to.

Bert Schurink posted:

Leith posted:

Geko posted:

If anyone needs any further convincing of ND555 superiority they should go to the road shows currently being run. I went to the one held by Audio T on Thursday night in Brighton at the Jury's Inn hotel.

A great talk by Jason (from Naim) on the thinking behind the ND555. This was followed by three nicely recorded song played on an NDS through 552/500/ATC system. A final song was played and then the NDS was swapped to the ND555.

From where I was sitting it was like playing a different piece of music. The band suddenly relaxed, the interplay betwen instruments became much more noticeable, timing improved, bass became more agile and there were spaces between notes that you only notice when you hear it.

Oh...Jason also added a second 555PS into the mix towards the end of the evening. It definitely added a touch more clarity but it was nowhere near as significant  as going from the NDS to ND555.

A very convincing demonstration. I thought the ATC's that Audio T were using sounded  particularly good with a nice simple 'retro' look to them. Not sure what model but they were big.

Couldn't agree more.....the demo's prove how good the ND555 is.

We were also at the Brighton demo evening and thoroughly enjoyed the event; our thanks go to Julian, John and Paul from AudioT and to Jason from Naim who answered a number of technical questions we had regarding Naim's views on the various network interfaces/prtocols that are becoming available with the new streamers.

We had in fact already ordered our ND555 a couple of weeks ago after a demo at AudioT in Brighton but that demo was with much lesser speakers and we were keen to hear the ND555 with better ones even though the streamer had already proven itself to us. The  ATC's worked very well indeed conveying a wonderful mid range in particular. The addition of the second power supply, to our ears, had a very pronounced and beneficial effect. It really seemed to sharpen/tighten/focus the soundscape in a truly musical manner. As stated by Gecko the transition from NDS to ND555 is the greatest gain but the second PS really does work well. We thought it very cruel to add that section into the demo as well!

Eagerly awaiting the delivery of our ND555 and definitely going down the "LA LA LA, NOT LISTENING, LA LA LA" (to quote another forum member) path regarding second powers supplies at present. Anyway, there is no more space and we don't remember seeing anyone recommending a 555PS to be stood on end by the side of rest of the rack!!!

 

It’s very painful to see this messages flowing in on the 2nd ps, I had the illusion that I already was in heaven with one......

Bert, there is never end.  If you add statement, 200k speakers, 20k power block.....it will each time be much better.  In 5/6 years, there will be nd statement probably....and so on.

Is anybody using the core direct into ND555? Just trying it out with Nordost Valhalla with good results... 

Also of pleasant surprise is that Tidal sounds really quite acceptable through the 555.

Good early start with the ND555, key themes have been mentioned

* natural/organic/‘’analougue’ - there is an amazing ease and naturalness, nothing forced but still lots of drive if its that sort of music

* soundstage - bigger and more filling, but without loosing itself to tiny details in the recording studio (i experience w certain cable demos that soundstage got artificially bigger w background detail at expense of ‘the band’

* voices - amazing vocals, just amazing, like they sing into the room rather than get tunneled through a microphone

* bass - something going on there but need more intensive listening to figure our

* usability - there are some smaller bugs, but gennerally really happy w the new platform. Still cannot figure out how to use airplay and chromecast, which is important for my wife

lots still to come i am sure. Importantly, NDS to my ears is still totally amazing and nothing to be ashamed of. They are very closely related...

happy times

lars

LarsDK posted:

Good early start with the ND555, key themes have been mentioned

* natural/organic/‘’analougue’ - there is an amazing ease and naturalness, nothing forced but still lots of drive if its that sort of music

* soundstage - bigger and more filling, but without loosing itself to tiny details in the recording studio (i experience w certain cable demos that soundstage got artificially bigger w background detail at expense of ‘the band’

* voices - amazing vocals, just amazing, like they sing into the room rather than get tunneled through a microphone

* bass - something going on there but need more intensive listening to figure our

* usability - there are some smaller bugs, but gennerally really happy w the new platform. Still cannot figure out how to use airplay and chromecast, which is important for my wife

lots still to come i am sure. Importantly, NDS to my ears is still totally amazing and nothing to be ashamed of. They are very closely related...

happy times

lars

Hey Larsdk, what do you mean by «  they are very closely related « ?    You mean that differences are not night and day ?  Thanks 

my initial impression after 1-2 days is that the overall sonic signature is quite similar, like a younger brother and older brother :-) clearly nd555 does several things better, and i am sure i will discover more, but i still look back at the nds as an impressive and exciting streamer. no regrets though in the upgrade, hope that is more clear. br Lars