ND555 Impressions

Richieroo posted:

My flacs have been ripped by DBpoweramp ......... and within the folder for the album...is a jpg named 'folder' this is the artwork. Will the ND555 pick this folder.jpg up and display it ......... is there a required 'format size'?

In principle the jpg in the folder should work, the display and careteristics of display depend on the software you use on your NAS and not related to your streamer...

Richieroo posted:

Interstingly when I moved from a 272 to the NDS - I did get quantitatively more bass which was sufficient enough for me to have to change the speaker location.... 

The more you go up the ladder the more information and energy flows through. It’s quite common to change the positioning of the speakers, or require some additional room correction.

nigelb posted:

Thanks Harry. The reason for the question is that I have a chicken and egg dilemma. Which comes first, a ND555 (currently NDS/555DR) or 552 (currently 252/SuperCapDR)?

I am not looking for answers on here as I know I have to do the demo legwork and answer that dilemma for myself. It is just helpful to hear which amplification folk are using the ND555 with.

I was always told to start with a great source and work from there ! 

nigelb posted:

Thanks Harry. The reason for the question is that I have a chicken and egg dilemma. Which comes first, a ND555 (currently NDS/555DR) or 552 (currently 252/SuperCapDR)?

I am not looking for answers on here as I know I have to do the demo legwork and answer that dilemma for myself. It is just helpful to hear which amplification folk are using the ND555 with.

To tell you the truth, I do not understand the rationale behind the "source first" dogma. If something really has to come first, I would argue that that should be the speakers and the amplification. These do not become obsolete as fast as sources tend to do. And how do you want to meaningfully compare different sources if your amplification or your speakers are the bottleneck? I am probably missing something obvious but it seems to me that any "... first" makes no sense at all. If one is upgrading speakers, one wants ideally to have the best source and the best amplification. If one is upgrading sources, one ideally wants to have the best amplification and the best speakers. And so on. Nothing comes first.

Tried that recently.....NDX2 with 555ps/ 552/300...the ND555/252/300 was better. I also feel the source will change more frequently.....and you will lose more re CD555/NDS member stories recently. Unfortunately the NDX2/555ps552 front end did not deliver anything like the ND555/252, the soundstage by comparison collapsed. Sorry tried it for the same reasons , did not work for me.

It's a nice dilemma to have Nigel. And it's more multi faceted still when you consider the power amp.

I wouldn't offer any firm advice on the basis of what I like because, as you point out, it's up to you and your ears to decide what to do and in what order to do it. So having got the disclaimer out of the way........

I think the elephant in your room is the 250. It will put a crimp in the performance of the ND555 and it is likely that you may not yet have an idea of what the NDS is truly capable of. The limitations in bandwidth, transparency and grip imposed by the 250 are certainly in play. It's an impressive sounding amp which fails to sound impressive - to my old ears.

A 250DR with my 552DR/NDS/555PS-DR/552PS-DR in my room killed my interest in music in two weeks. I just stopped listening. It refused to sound any good and my brain refused to try to get used to it after about 2 weeks of trying. Sorry. Each to our own. Just my £0.02. No controversy or offence intended.

I think a 252 and a 300 might give you an even more favourable impression of the NDS, let alone the ND555. And while source first is an approach I strongly advocate- in principle, the 552, as many say, is something a bit special. It's something you'll never regret and you can subsequently spend the rest of your life throwing better and better sources at it to your heart's content.

On the other hand, a 252/300 with the best source you can source will be a fantastically transparent, musical and fleet system. And it will be 552 ready. The 552 goes just lovely with a 300 and you can treat yourself sometime down the road at a time that suits you. Unlike many components, a 552 has a low potential to throw the balance of the system out. It just makes everything more transparent, believable and life like.

Likewise, a 500 won't unbalance it either if you go there after the 552. It isn't bombastic, big sounding and throbbing. It's confident, self assured, transparent (there's that word again) and has vice like grip.  When you finally get to hear exactly how the notes start and stop, everything makes more sense. The 250 pretends. The 300 reveals. The 500 tells it like it is.

I think that's quite enough of your money spent for one day!

musicfan51 posted:

nigelb posted:

Thanks Harry. The reason for the question is that I have a chicken and egg dilemma. Which comes first, a ND555 (currently NDS/555DR) or 552 (currently 252/SuperCapDR)?

I am not looking for answers on here as I know I have to do the demo legwork and answer that dilemma for myself. It is just helpful to hear which amplification folk are using the ND555 with.

I was always told to start with a great source and work from there ! 

I think we were all told that by someone named Ivor and his business at the time was selling a great source...There’s plenty of truth in it, but I have to say that IME, the higher quality Naim preamps including 282 and 252, but most especially the 552 bring the old ‘garbage in..’ truism into question.

Having said that, I haven’t yet heard the ND555, but Nigel already knows what he must do. Try both options. 

Edit after reading Harry’s post above. Agree with him TBH. I hadn’t factored your power amp into the equation. Maybe you have 3 options to audition Nigel! Oh dear.. 

nbpf posted:

To tell you the truth, I do not understand the rationale behind the "source first" dogma. If something really has to come first, I would argue that that should be the speakers and the amplification. 

It's not really a dogma. I suppose it might sound like one if preached condescendingly (as it sometimes is and all too frequently was in the 1980s) but it's just a bit of logic based on the assertion that you can't replace information that a poor source cannot supply, no matter how good the amps and speakers.  The best way to test it is to try it. On balance, it has worked for me down the years. But it doesn't always work. Life is not that simple. Thankfully. How boring would that be?

Technically, if one were to rigidly adhere to a speakers first theory of system hierarchy (which was the case before the source first model, ushered in by Linn and Naim in no small part), then it should be the room above all else that gets the biggest outlay and treatment. because it's not how the speakers play in the room so much as how the room plays the speakers. Maybe it's time for a house first approach to system hierarchy?

nbpf posted:

nigelb posted:

Thanks Harry. The reason for the question is that I have a chicken and egg dilemma. Which comes first, a ND555 (currently NDS/555DR) or 552 (currently 252/SuperCapDR)?

I am not looking for answers on here as I know I have to do the demo legwork and answer that dilemma for myself. It is just helpful to hear which amplification folk are using the ND555 with.

To tell you the truth, I do not understand the rationale behind the "source first" dogma. If something really has to come first, I would argue that that should be the speakers and the amplification. These do not become obsolete as fast as sources tend to do. And how do you want to meaningfully compare different sources if your amplification or your speakers are the bottleneck? I am probably missing something obvious but it seems to me that any "... first" makes no sense at all. If one is upgrading speakers, one wants ideally to have the best source and the best amplification. If one is upgrading sources, one ideally wants to have the best amplification and the best speakers. And so on. Nothing comes first.

I agree with you nbpf that if you have the resources, doing everything at once is the way to go.  However, being human, sometimes we do take things in steps.  I know for me, 6 months ago my budget for the whole thing was $6000.  I had no plans to go Big.  Now I am sitting with an NDX, a ND555/PS555 on order, Unity Core, 2 Naim Fraims, and a one ohm ribbon speaker with classic amplifier to drive them.  If you would have asked me if that was even a remote possibility, I would have laughed.  Doing it a little at a time made the whole thing go down smooth, and I am not talking about the financial part.  Found I loved music again and my wife also joins me nightly. 

nbpf posted:

nigelb posted:

Thanks Harry. The reason for the question is that I have a chicken and egg dilemma. Which comes first, a ND555 (currently NDS/555DR) or 552 (currently 252/SuperCapDR)?

I am not looking for answers on here as I know I have to do the demo legwork and answer that dilemma for myself. It is just helpful to hear which amplification folk are using the ND555 with.

To tell you the truth, I do not understand the rationale behind the "source first" dogma. If something really has to come first, I would argue that that should be the speakers and the amplification. These do not become obsolete as fast as sources tend to do. And how do you want to meaningfully compare different sources if your amplification or your speakers are the bottleneck? I am probably missing something obvious but it seems to me that any "... first" makes no sense at all. If one is upgrading speakers, one wants ideally to have the best source and the best amplification. If one is upgrading sources, one ideally wants to have the best amplification and the best speakers. And so on. Nothing comes first.

I have heard a system where someone had expensive speakers and a great amp and Preamp and streamed music from an iPhone . Sounded terrible .  If you do not have a good source but great electronics & speakers all you are going to hear is veiled music . I know there are people on AVS forum who really believe your system should be 75% (cost of ) in your speakers . No balance in that kinda system . Garage in.... Garbage out . 

In this case (ND555) I'd think source is strong enough that if partnered with a good Pre-Power and speakers to taste will deliver more music that a lesser source.

Always need to check via demo - and you can't IMO go too far and have too poor a Pre-Power downstream of a good source and ensure great results. There is a balance to be struck and some combinations do work better together than others.

I'm more impressed with my ND555 as it continues its run-in and reached is next level of detail retrieval and rendering - more to come but very engaging right now, if a little brightly detailed. I know that will pass as it opens-out more later.

In the context of my system it is an obvious and significant upgrade. My next purchase will be the Melco CD-ripper that I home-demoed and did many of my CDs into the Melco database with, as the PC-rips are nowhere near as clear.

We did comparisons of
(A) DB-Poweramp into a Computer then transferred to Melco DB - vs -
(B) CD-Drive into Melco DB direct - vs -
(C) Melco D100 ripper direct into Melco DB
and I was frankly amazed there was any difference at all - but there was and A was worst and sounded a bit dull and with poor timing compared to B that was far clearer and far superior timing and then even better was C that had all benefits of B but was cleaner and more precise.

Unless I'd experienced the demo I'd have wanted to believe it could make no difference - this was with exactly the same CD being ripped three times - A then B then C and each compared on the same system. I had wanted to save some money, but every new CD I've ripped via my PC has just not had the clarity of the Melco D100, so that is next on my list to acquire. 

Source first.

I know most people will not believe this or want to believe it or just 'know' it is impossible - but I had the demo and that is what it does. I have engineering and science background and was genuinely surprised any difference on these magnitudes existed depending on how the rip is made.

DB.

Today marks seven weeks since I ordered my ND555. Grrr!!!

Regarding all the user tips which are gradually being leaked onto this thread, are these available in the product manual? Or will it be necessary to use the search function on here to resolve issues as they arise?

Clive B posted:

Today marks seven weeks since I ordered my ND555. Grrr!!!

Regarding all the user tips which are gradually being leaked onto this thread, are these available in the product manual? Or will it be necessary to use the search function on here to resolve issues as they arise?

Clive, all you get is a quick start guide ?

Pcd posted:

Clive B posted:

Today marks seven weeks since I ordered my ND555. Grrr!!!

Regarding all the user tips which are gradually being leaked onto this thread, are these available in the product manual? Or will it be necessary to use the search function on here to resolve issues as they arise?

Clive, all you get is a quick start guide ?

Is there a detailed set of instructions on line somewhere? I have not yet checked. 

Groan......When I was having my ND555 demo at Signals I brought in a very recent cd I had purchased from music magpie that would not rip certain tracks on my UnitI Core. Tried on the Signals Uniti  Core still struggled......Melco ripper, not a problem. Perhaps I need to look  at Melco when they get their own App, due soon I believe.

Clive B posted:

Pcd posted:

Clive B posted:

Today marks seven weeks since I ordered my ND555. Grrr!!!

Regarding all the user tips which are gradually being leaked onto this thread, are these available in the product manual? Or will it be necessary to use the search function on here to resolve issues as they arise?

Clive, all you get is a quick start guide ?

Is there a detailed set of instructions on line somewhere? I have not yet checked. 

Clive, nothing very detailed the website has a list of FAQ.

Darke Bear posted:

In this case (ND555) I'd think source is strong enough that if partnered with a good Pre-Power and speakers to taste will deliver more music that a lesser source.

Always need to check via demo - and you can't IMO go too far and have too poor a Pre-Power downstream of a good source and ensure great results. There is a balance to be struck and some combinations do work better together than others.

I'm more impressed with my ND555 as it continues its run-in and reached is next level of detail retrieval and rendering - more to come but very engaging right now, if a little brightly detailed. I know that will pass as it opens-out more later.

In the context of my system it is an obvious and significant upgrade. My next purchase will be the Melco CD-ripper that I home-demoed and did many of my CDs into the Melco database with, as the PC-rips are nowhere near as clear.

We did comparisons of
(A) DB-Poweramp into a Computer then transferred to Melco DB - vs -
(B) CD-Drive into Melco DB direct - vs -
(C) Melco D100 ripper direct into Melco DB
and I was frankly amazed there was any difference at all - but there was and A was worst and sounded a bit dull and with poor timing compared to B that was far clearer and far superior timing and then even better was C that had all benefits of B but was cleaner and more precise.

Unless I'd experienced the demo I'd have wanted to believe it could make no difference - this was with exactly the same CD being ripped three times - A then B then C and each compared on the same system. I had wanted to save some money, but every new CD I've ripped via my PC has just not had the clarity of the Melco D100, so that is next on my list to acquire. 

Source first.

I know most people will not believe this or want to believe it or just 'know' it is impossible - but I had the demo and that is what it does. I have engineering and science background and was genuinely surprised any difference on these magnitudes existed depending on how the rip is made.

DB.

I wonder what the Naim Uniti Core would do in the same system?  So called "D".  Perhaps that should be given a try before you spend the $$$  ??

Bailyhill

Clive B posted:

Today marks seven weeks since I ordered my ND555. Grrr!!!

Regarding all the user tips which are gradually being leaked onto this thread, are these available in the product manual? Or will it be necessary to use the search function on here to resolve issues as they arise?

What? Which product manual? How do you come to this idea? You have bought a 13k pounds machine, do not expect any downloadable user guide, let apart a printed manual, for that price!

Pcd posted:

Clive B posted:

Pcd posted:

Clive B posted:

Today marks seven weeks since I ordered my ND555. Grrr!!!

Regarding all the user tips which are gradually being leaked onto this thread, are these available in the product manual? Or will it be necessary to use the search function on here to resolve issues as they arise?

Clive, all you get is a quick start guide ?

Is there a detailed set of instructions on line somewhere? I have not yet checked. 

Clive, nothing very detailed the website has a list of FAQ.

Just found the list of FAQ, thanks. I'd real like to be able to print them all out, but that doesn't seem to be immediately available. I guess I shall just have to wait until the machine shows up and see what I need to do. I'm hoping to be able to have the display turn off (from showing the correct album cover art) when playing and also when at rest, just like the NDS.

Harry posted:

I think that's quite enough of your money spent for one day!

You're spending a lot of our money!  Gee thanks, Harry!  

Clive B posted:

Cdb posted:

Clive B posted:

@CDB - was there a limited duration to the NDA? Just a thought.

Sorry, NDA?

Check your wall.

OK thanks - I'll delete the post to be safe although I think it has been mentioned before.

Clive

Darke Bear posted:

In this case (ND555) I'd think source is strong enough that if partnered with a good Pre-Power and speakers to taste will deliver more music that a lesser source.

Always need to check via demo - and you can't IMO go too far and have too poor a Pre-Power downstream of a good source and ensure great results. There is a balance to be struck and some combinations do work better together than others.

I'm more impressed with my ND555 as it continues its run-in and reached is next level of detail retrieval and rendering - more to come but very engaging right now, if a little brightly detailed. I know that will pass as it opens-out more later.

In the context of my system it is an obvious and significant upgrade. My next purchase will be the Melco CD-ripper that I home-demoed and did many of my CDs into the Melco database with, as the PC-rips are nowhere near as clear.

We did comparisons of
(A) DB-Poweramp into a Computer then transferred to Melco DB - vs -
(B) CD-Drive into Melco DB direct - vs -
(C) Melco D100 ripper direct into Melco DB
and I was frankly amazed there was any difference at all - but there was and A was worst and sounded a bit dull and with poor timing compared to B that was far clearer and far superior timing and then even better was C that had all benefits of B but was cleaner and more precise.

Unless I'd experienced the demo I'd have wanted to believe it could make no difference - this was with exactly the same CD being ripped three times - A then B then C and each compared on the same system. I had wanted to save some money, but every new CD I've ripped via my PC has just not had the clarity of the Melco D100, so that is next on my list to acquire. 

Source first.

I know most people will not believe this or want to believe it or just 'know' it is impossible - but I had the demo and that is what it does. I have engineering and science background and was genuinely surprised any difference on these magnitudes existed depending on how the rip is made.

DB.

Very interesting post, thanks! I also have an engineering background but my conclusions would be very different in this case: I would think that there might have been something wrong with the demo and I would not buy anything until I have understood what's going on. Have you compared the three rips bit by bit after having erased all metadata blocks? Are they equal? If not in what do they differ? If the files are equal, do they still sound differently if you rename them? If you have ripped to .flac, metaflac is a good tool to analyse and check the files.

I can’t speak from any significant experience of the ND555, nor any anticipation of receiving one, but my recent experience of acquiring a CD555 suggests that Nigel won’t go wrong with getting the ND555 first. Going from a CDS3 with XPS to the CD555 and 555PS has been one of the biggest single upgrades I have made. I am using it with a 252 and 250 DR, with SL2s. No doubt a 552 and 300 would be better yet, but what I have seems to me to reveal very clearly the advantages of the 555CD player.  This seems at least partial confirmation of Gazza’s test - partial because I cannot test the other way round.

Clive

Bailyhill posted:

Darke Bear posted:

In this case (ND555) I'd think source is strong enough that if partnered with a good Pre-Power and speakers to taste will deliver more music that a lesser source.

Always need to check via demo - and you can't IMO go too far and have too poor a Pre-Power downstream of a good source and ensure great results. There is a balance to be struck and some combinations do work better together than others.

I'm more impressed with my ND555 as it continues its run-in and reached is next level of detail retrieval and rendering - more to come but very engaging right now, if a little brightly detailed. I know that will pass as it opens-out more later.

In the context of my system it is an obvious and significant upgrade. My next purchase will be the Melco CD-ripper that I home-demoed and did many of my CDs into the Melco database with, as the PC-rips are nowhere near as clear.

We did comparisons of
(A) DB-Poweramp into a Computer then transferred to Melco DB - vs -
(B) CD-Drive into Melco DB direct - vs -
(C) Melco D100 ripper direct into Melco DB
and I was frankly amazed there was any difference at all - but there was and A was worst and sounded a bit dull and with poor timing compared to B that was far clearer and far superior timing and then even better was C that had all benefits of B but was cleaner and more precise.

Unless I'd experienced the demo I'd have wanted to believe it could make no difference - this was with exactly the same CD being ripped three times - A then B then C and each compared on the same system. I had wanted to save some money, but every new CD I've ripped via my PC has just not had the clarity of the Melco D100, so that is next on my list to acquire. 

Source first.

I know most people will not believe this or want to believe it or just 'know' it is impossible - but I had the demo and that is what it does. I have engineering and science background and was genuinely surprised any difference on these magnitudes existed depending on how the rip is made.

DB.

I wonder what the Naim Uniti Core would do in the same system?  So called "D".  Perhaps that should be given a try before you spend the $$$  ??

Bailyhill

i tried once the melco direct into the nds, to compare vs my serve / linear ps or the uniticore i borrowed too.  The nds/ melco was a bit softer, with a bit more details. But the involvement and life was a bit less pronounced.  I prefer the core or serve / nds/ cisco 2960 trio personally.

Thanks to you all for your thoughts and I hope this slight chicken and egg diversion hasn't irritated the OP too much.

I realise that to get the full benefit of any premium component there needs to be a degree of system balance and a degree of synergy (sorry, synergy is a rubbish and lazy reference but hopefully you all know what I mean). I would love to go straight from NDS/252DR/250DR to ND555/552DR/300DR, but it simply ain't going to happen, indeed it may never happen. But having been so richly rewarded with wonderful music on my Naim journey so far, and knowing there is much more available, I don't want my journey to end quite yet. And Harry has now made things even more complicated by, quite rightly, bringing the power amp issue to light, giving me veritable trilemma (no such word, I know) to consider.

So it is a case of trying different options, mindful of the cost of those options, and understanding which provides the best SQ return on investment. Sorry, another crappy reference.

In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy hearing the experience of you ND555 early adopters.