From 282/300 to 102/180

Good write up Bob, your post  gets to the heart of the matter. 

How refreshing this is not about endless box upgrades

Good on ya Bob, you have managed to jump off the endless upgrade treadmill, or is that ladder.

And you are still getting that Naim kick from Olive kit, especially with vinyl, and have gifted yourself a slug of cash.

I suspect many diehards might be a little envious.

Maybe I should pay a visit to my local Naim Audio Anonymous (NAA) meeting when I next suffer a bout of upgradeitis. Just say NAA! You know it makes sense.

Alba1320 posted:

I don't know if you've seen one, but, FYI, this is an Olive era NAPSC:

Just in case you were only planning to change it in order to get an Olive fascia (which, of course, it doesn't have; it's all black).

 

(photo credit to OP)

Difference though is about £100 used.

My little Olive system was sounding fantastic last night I have enquired about a Mose psu for my LP12  mainly to give me the option of 45rpm and if there is also an audible difference in SQ well thats great.

I listened to Quadrophenia last night and the last two tracks on side four The Rock and Love Reign on Me sounded really good Keith Moon's drums sounded especially good. 

There are improvements to be made with this deck but the weight in the drums and the bass the thing I want the most is there in abundance.  After the Mose is installed and the deck has had a service and a new armboard I think we might be nearly there although there is a guy on another forum who can apparently work wonders with an FR12 tonearm changing the bearings and adding some damping to the the tonearm tube.

Actually this is one of the best threads I've read this forum

Bob, I may have missed it, are you running the 180 on Contours or others ?

We see far too many superlatives when people upgrade. Sometimes justified, eg IMHO the ND555, but often as not, unjustified in absolute terms. We each have our own perceptions of “good” “better” “fantastic” etc.

I have a circular slide rule. Once round the slide rule is a factor of 10. Twice round is a factor of 100 etc. In between, you can see the distance from “2” to “3” is less than the distance “1” to “2” and so on. Obviously it’s a Log (power 10) scale. I find it a useful benchmark for Cost v Enjoyment. 

Starting with say a £1,000 pre-amp you need to look at a £10,000 pre-amp to double the enjoyment and £100,000 to triple the enjoyment. 

Looking at a £2,000 pre-amp will only give a modest improvement over a £1,000 pre-amp and from £2k to £3k the improvement would be barely noticeable.

Of course, ymmv".............

analogmusic posted:

Actually this is one of the best threads I've read this forum

 

Just wait til somebody want to "downgrade" to 72/140

The old Naim stuff were really good, built to last and serviceable. Musically, Resale value is good, what more could you wish !

Perol posted:

analogmusic posted:

Actually this is one of the best threads I've read this forum

 

Just wait til somebody want to "downgrade" to 72/140

Amen. It also fits on one shelf.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Perol posted:

analogmusic posted:

Actually this is one of the best threads I've read this forum

 

Just wait til somebody want to "downgrade" to 72/140

Amen. It also fits on one shelf.

A Naim classic!!

Ardbeg10y posted:

Perol posted:

analogmusic posted:

Actually this is one of the best threads I've read this forum

 

Just wait til somebody want to "downgrade" to 72/140

Amen. It also fits on one shelf.

Nooooo....

You need to get some space between them. At least a shelf each...

Alba1320 posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

Alba1320 posted:

I don't know if you've seen one, but, FYI, this is an Olive era NAPSC:

SNIP

Just in case you were only planning to change it in order to get an Olive fascia (which, of course, it doesn't have; it's all black).

Difference though is about £100 used.

Just to clarify, your OP says that already have a Black era NAPSC, so I was just checking that you knew that the Olive era version wasn't actually Olive, and therefore would not 'match' the Olive boxes (even though it's meant to be hidden away, far from the other boxes), and from that point of view, 'needlessly' switching, but it seems that recouping a bit of money is your goal?

Out of cursorily, while you say that you could live with both, do you think that you are enjoying music more with the (more modest) Olive set-up?

Hi Alba1320 

I did actually realise that both are black fascia although the Olive Napsc does like slightly different but as you rightly say it is hidden away on a seperate shelf and although recouping money wouldn't be my primary goal needlessly spending it isn't either.

Napsc 2's go for between £135 - £185 on eBay  plus postage whilst I have just sourced an Olive one inc postage for £75.

With the added bonus that although my 282 didn't come with a Napsc when I bought it I can now add my spare Black Box one to it to help it's sale and I can also sell the Dual TC which also contained a Napsc to off set the cost of the Olive Hicap I have just bought.

To answer your second question is a bit harder there is room for improvement with the Olive set up but I think that swapping the Dual TC for a Hicap and  also the tweaks to the record deck will help.  The 282/300 was definitely a bit more refined but sadly I always expected so much from it than it was able to give because after reading this and other forums I was always slightly dissapointed with the 282 and yes I could have thrown another £1,500 power supply at it but I had to draw the line somewhere.  The Nap 300 definetly helped matters but again it probably needed a better pre amp and lots more money to bring out the best in it and                                                                                                                                                                                                    

Bob the Builder posted:

 

Now I have reached a happy place with my system I'm really, really enjoying music more and have stopped just listening to music and records that I think make my system sound good and listen to all of my collection again.

This old LP12 with the Olive amp really is a joy to listen to with all genres and although of course 1st press and expensive 'audiophile' pressings do sound better it plays even very average pressings extremely well.

Nice one. We all enjoy this hobby for different reasons (hopefully the main one the enjoyment of our music collections) and for all the upgrade and new product release threads, it's nice to read a thread where someone's found musical satisfaction as is happy where they are.

Enjoy 

I once went from a 282/SC2/300 to a Nait 2, fronted by a CDS3. In some sonic respects, the Nait 2 was preferred. I retained the CDS3/Nait2 combo for several years of audio bliss and only moved to a Nait 5 more recently for the remote.

Another very enjoyable evening spent delving into my record collection.....

Just to of curiosity, did you try 282/180? (Or even, perish the thought, 102/300?!) I'm not aware of any rule that olive and black can't be mixed.

Yes I did try the 282/180 and the 102/300 the 282/180 was quite similar to the 282/200 I used to have and could have been an option but the 102/180 really do work well together they had been almost made together, were sold together and had lived together for the past 25 years so they belong together.

Richard Dane posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Perol posted:

analogmusic posted:

Actually this is one of the best threads I've read this forum

 

Just wait til somebody want to "downgrade" to 72/140

Amen. It also fits on one shelf.

Nooooo....

You need to get some space between them. At least a shelf each...

Yes the 102 and the 180 both have their own Hutter shelf and so will the Hicap when it arrives and the Napsc is on a seperate shelf to the side of the Hutter. Admittedly they do look great close together especially the old shoe boxes but isolation and placement is a key factor in fact probably the most important  if you want to get the best from your system and that's any system not just Naim..                                                                     

Interesting thread Bob. I can wholly understand the amp swap, but i am surprised you you went for the lower specced LP12, I thought the higher spec would have be the keeper and the choice of amps could then follow, and be pretty fluid as it were.

I once downgraded from a LP12/ITTOK/Koetsu/52/135/ISOBARIKS and won’t deny it was rather painful at the moment of letting those boxes go - just in terms of time, effort and cash to acquire that system. But I still played and collected just as much music on the less indulgent system that replaced it.

I stuck with a CB Nait2 at the heart of my system for some eight years and still have the old clunker!

Thanks Alba   Can't promise, but i do my best....

I discovered Naim about ten years ago... 2008 and HDX... feeding Classé amplification, so I have no personal experience of the earlier kit that Bob has now settled upon.  Your post though, Bob, is truly inspirational and could possibly have the effect of pursuading others to travel the same route, so, just in case this happens I thought I'd better quickly point out that without folk like me who often buy new Naim stuff, the company would cease to exist and there would go the serviceability of the older kit.

As I said, I just wanted to put a brake on the rush to buy Olive and before  

Incidentally, Bob, please don't read any criticism of your choices; in truth I'm a little jealous that you've managed to beat upgradeitis and save all that money 

Bob

am happy for you...

recently - I have moved onto the Naim SN2 from the Naim Nait 5i-2

Havent sold the Naim Nait 5i-2 just yet....

I know we are talking Olive series and all here but there is something about simplicity - i think the innocence.

regards

Good man, Bob! Always good to see someone happy with what some would see as inferior and setting boundaries!

Hi Bob, good story. By the way, did you own the 202 before? From what I gather, the 202 is very similar to the 102 and most people who have compared both picked the 202 to be ahead in terms of refinement. 

Similarly I share the same sentiment. I have both 202/200 and 282/250. Both good and I can surely live with both. A different presentation between the two systems, and I surely appreciate that they both sound different so that I can switch between the two when I get bored with one. 

Enjoy the 102/180 (and the 282/300 also). I can feel what you are going through with one of your posts as quoted below. It's good that you decided to draw a line somewhere. I personally think that the 282/250 is the sweet spot in the Naim line and good enough for most applications. 

The 282/300 was definitely a bit more refined but sadly I always expected so much from it than it was able to give because after reading this and other forums I was always slightly disappointed with the 282 and yes I could have thrown another £1,500 power supply at it but I had to draw the line somewhere.  The Nap 300 definitely helped matters but again it probably needed a better pre amp and lots more money to bring out the best in it