From 282/300 to 102/180

Posted by: Bob the Builder on 28 July 2018

I have finally made up my mind and decided to keep the 102/180in place of the 282/300. This isn't out of any real preference for one over the other as they both sound fantastic but just because I could easily live with both and obviously one is much, much more expensive than the other.

I have just bought a used Olive Hicap to power the 102 and am on the lookout for an Olive Napsc to replace the black box one. I will then own an amp I am very, very happy with and have no desire to change.

I spent the past four years wondering what magic the next black box or the new cable would bring into my system and to my listening pleasure but on the whole they usually brought very little improvements at all, occasionally there was a minor difference but on the whole for me I was usually underwhelmed.

But to have reached where I am today I needed to take the route I did and of course because Naim is such fantastic kit and so greatly loved and so easy to sell on I have actually ended up spending very little money and so I have absolutely no complaints and apart from straining my ears sometimes to hear some change in micro dynamics it has been a pleasure.

It really is source first and I have also just traded 'down' from a 1990 Cirkus bearing LP12 with Ittok and Lingo one to a late 70's red button LP12 with an FR12 tonearm which sounds fantastic with the Olive kit and apart from a Hercules 2 or maybe a used Mose if I can find one and a service I will live with it like that for a good while but any money I do spend in the future will be spent on my record player and not my amp.

Now I have reached a happy place with my system I'm really, really enjoying music more and have stopped just listening to music and records that I think make my system sound good and listen to all of my collection again.

This old LP12 with the Olive amp really is a joy to listen to with all genres and although of course 1st press and expensive 'audiophile' pressings do sound better it plays even very average pressings extremely well.

Posted on: 10 August 2018 by Christopher_M

Bob the Builder posted:
Christopher_M posted:
Bob the Builder posted:

I know the Nima is considered to be a poor man's Aro but I wanted to try a pre Cirkus/unipivot and the Aro or Javelin isn't financially possible so if I eventually decide to give up the FR12 it's a Nima.
Subject to dem naturally but I'd be wary of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Wise words Christopher_M.
I fitted the Hercules Mose last night not really expecting a great deal except 45rpm functionality and this old deck with the bonded subchasis and the obsolete tonearm which was sounding good anyway is sounding very good.
I remember fitting the Lingo 1 to my old deck replacing the valhalla and it had nothing like the same improvement so I'm very pleased with it.
Wether or not it is a coming together of all of the parts of this system I do not know because I'm not missing the now sold late 90's Cirkus/ittock/Lingo 1 LP12 or the 282.

Thanks.

Did you keep the DV20xL and the Dino?

Posted on: 10 August 2018 by Bob the Builder

Yes Chris still have the same cart and phonostage adding the Olive HC was good but it was the Hercules Mose that has brought the system up another couple of levels probably the best vfm upgrade I've ever had £250 used from Cymbiosis.

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by Bob the Builder

Well both the 282/300 have now gone sold on to two very happy Naim Audioholics. The only thing I will not swap are the Dynaudio Contour speakers this humble little 180 has a grip on these big speakers that you wouldn't think possible bass is especially realistic and less boomy than the 300 could sometimes be. Together with a 102/Napsc/Hicap the 180 makes a fantastic and agile amp especially with vinyl it is very capable of producing some great sounds.

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by No quarter

Bob the Builder posted:
Well both the 282/300 have now gone sold on to two very happy Naim Audioholics. The only thing I will not swap are the Dynaudio Contour speakers this humble little 180 has a grip on these big speakers that you wouldn't think possible bass is especially realistic and less boomy than the 300 could sometimes be. Together with a 102/Napsc/Hicap the 180 makes a fantastic and agile amp especially with vinyl it is very capable of producing some great sounds.

I seem to remember another forum member that preferred a 250DR over a 300 DR,he said the bass was overpowering his room with the 300.I am a Long time Dyn user too,great speakers you have there,enjoy!

Posted on: 15 August 2018 by Bob the Builder

I used to read posts on this and other forums that said that although their amps had become a bit smoother and more appealing to the mainstream Naim had lost something between the Olive and the new black boxes.

I came to Naim quite late and cannot claim to have bought my first Naim amp with money saved from my paper round and had only owned a CB 32.5/90 which gave way quickly to a UQ, an Olive 250 but with a 202 and for a short time a Nat 01 that was a bit extravagant for the one or two stations that I could get so my experience of pre black box Naim was limited. I don't know if I had a very bad 282/300 (although the people who bought them seem very happy with them) or if I have an exceptional 102/180 or if it is just system, speaker room synergy but the 102/180 just engages me so much more than the 282/300 and as strange as that may seem to many it is a fact for me.

Posted on: 16 August 2018 by Wugged Woy

Love my 72/HC/180 too. To my ears it sounds absolutely superb. There is no logical reason for me to change.

The 180 is really rather under-rated here.

Posted on: 16 August 2018 by Bob the Builder

Yes the 180 is a fantastic amp when I first mentioned on this forum that I was enjoying it more than the 300 I think I was actually told that there must be something mechanically wrong with my 300 and that perhaps I should call a doctor I mean dealer to sort it all out!

Posted on: 16 August 2018 by ryder.

Bob the Builder posted:
Yes the 180 is a fantastic amp when I first mentioned on this forum that I was enjoying it more than the 300 I think I was actually told that there must be something mechanically wrong with my 300 and that perhaps I should call a doctor I mean dealer to sort it all out!

No surprise because minority may like a different presentation as opposed to strictly following the hierarchy whereby the 300 is supposed to sound better than the 250 or 200, or the 252 sounding better than the 282 and 202 etc. Perhaps speaker to amplifier or room synergy may play a role in the outcome of you preferring the 102/180 over the 282/300 but the other possibility is you prefer the looser and less controlled or lit presentation of the former, an overall sound that is looser and less defined in the bass up to the treble, based on my experience with the 202/200 and 282/250DR (the 202 should be quite similar in sound to the 102 so I'm assuming that the 102 is the 202).

Posted on: 16 August 2018 by Bob the Builder

I think you are right Ryder source >> amp >> speaker >> room synergy played a big, big part in my journey and my outcome but for me although taking the same place in their respective ranges the 202/200 and the 102/180 are different sounding amps, again perhaps this was due to the speakers used and the room in which I played them but the 102/180 just has more life and musicality and bass definition.

Posted on: 16 August 2018 by Ardbeg10y

Just a guess, but could it be the known synergy of olive amps with vinyl?

Posted on: 17 August 2018 by Bob the Builder

Of course vinyl sounds especially good with both Chrome Bumper and Olive if I didn’t need 45rpm I would tempted to try an Olive Armageddon on my LP12.

Posted on: 18 August 2018 by Pedro

Hi Bob

i went through a similar experience to your own a few years ago. I started my Naim journey in about 1990 with a 62/90 with a Hicap soon after. I eventually reached a fully loaded LP12 with 252/300 and SL2s.

I was becoming increasingly disillusioned with my listening experience as I was increasingly listening to hi fi and no longer listening to music. Like you, I was only playing music that I felt brought out the best in my system. I listened for detail in the music, and somehow wasn’t listening to the song as a whole.

i did the same as you. Sold everything and bought a Well Tempered Versalex, 52/52PS/135s/SBLs. A tt that doesn’t need upgrading and constantly tempting tweakery and the top of the olive range. A sticking point for me. And yes, I now listen to music again and enjoy my entire collection. I’m not constantly thinking of the next upgrade.

good luck and enjoy your music.

Peter