LINN LP12 Majik vs Naim NDX

i would upgrade the cart and phono pre...the pre in priority i think.

^^^

The above is the complete opposite to the recommendations from Linn and most LP12 enthusiasts and dealers I know, I'd say.

The Majik power supply is embarrassing - I'd upgrade that (even an Hercules would be better) and see how you get on. I'd only do this after checking every setup on your current config.

A well setup LP12 (even with a lowly Project tonearm) should imo perform better than most streamers out there

Perhaps it needs a fresh replacement needle and a service ?

PEROL, this Majik deck was just purchased new early this year 2018 from authorised dealer. I believe the needle is still rather new.

Upgrading the Majik power supply imho will improve the PRAT of the LP12, but not so much on the definition of the output right? But still lacking on overall soundstage and authoritative of the deck.

Hoping some owner of the more recent entry Majik LP12 with the Pro-Ject9cc tonearm compares to his NDX, and whether spending on upgrades on the LP12 are worthwhile. There's a whole lot of list to upgrade which ultimately turn the Majik into Klimax.

???? KENT3888,...Has your dealer been careful when he has set up the player.?
Know that unfortunately,it has begun to be careless more and more with this.

◾ Do you know if your dealer turned the drive belt to the optimal position.?
There are four different ways to have the drive belt on,....one position is best.
◾ Needle pressure,have your trader optimized this for you.?
He might just set the recommended value.
◾ Antiskating,......The same thing there.
It is not certain that this value should be the same as the Needle pressure value.
Both of these, just to test and listen.
◾ Buy an electronic Needle wave,then it is easier to test out small variations.
◾ There are big differences in the soundquality how hard you pull the screws in your baseboard.
Test this when your turntable is on the basis you selected.
◾ In addition,there are also great differences in the soundquality was,on what basis your LP12 stands.
◾ Avoid having your LP12 above other electronic products,and definitely not above the amplifiers.
◾ Electrical phase,if you live in England, you don't need to think about this,...otherwise VERY IMPORTANT.!
◾ The lid,...do not wear this on as you play...Take It Off,..It only takes two seconds to remove...turn on again.

So here at the beginning,both your player and pick-up need to be "burn-n",....especially your Adikt.

????You absolutely do NOT need to upgrade,this Majik LP12 should play music so that you will be satisfied.
Same thing with your Lejonklou Gaio2,..it's great...also think there on the electrical phase. But your trader should have told you about this.
Otherwise,email directly to Fredrik Lejonklou.

These were some points I'd write down before I had to leave.
Others may be able to supplement.......

Good luck..

/Peder ????

???? Ps, in your PowerStrip, your LP12 should be seated in the first socket closest to the input power cable.... again,..Think of the electrical phase.. Important.!

Sounds strange. Is the arm parallel to the platter? If not then it might be an issue of incorrect VTA. Also, I believe the Gaio phono stage may be less full sounding than other phono stages, so might be worthwhile trying other phono stages for comparison. Differences shouldn't be dramatic, though.

The NDX is a better performer, simple!

my rega rp10/ lyra delos/ ear 912 phono is better sounding than my nds/555dr.    So i believe that a linn majik , on the level of a rega p6, should outperform a bare ndx, but with a decent cart/ phono pre combo.  Something like lyra argo and rega aria should be ok.

The second aspect is that the linn majik is expensive for its performance, it is more project than linn deck.   So of course a better power supply and arm should lift this deck too, but it can be the entry for non stopping linn upgrades....and very costly.

Sorry to read of this, Kent. What's your experience of record players before you bought the Majik?

Kent

i wanted to get more from my LP12 which i liked but did not love, so this year Peter [@mention:1566878603906177] upgraded my deck

my LP12 now is a far better source than my NDX, rest of my system is a similar set up yo yours 282.HCDR,300DR - into B&W 805N, my NDX is also bare

upragdes were Lingo 4, Khan, Kore, Tranquility, Tramploin 2 did not change arm but cartridge to DV20X total cost just over Majik spec £4.5k

so I would speak to LP12 specialist and get them to demo options - I would say Power supply, Lingo 4 is superb but also a lot of other Lingo on SH market and cartridge - Arm is the last i would upgrade to be honest PS

NDX is great, LP12 is greater IMO

antony d posted:

i wanted to get more from my LP12 which i liked but did not love, so this year Peter [@mention:1566878603906177] upgraded my deck

my LP12 now is a far better source than my NDX, rest of my system is a similar set up yo yours 282.HCDR,300DR - into B&W 805N, my NDX is also bare

upragdes were Lingo 4, Khan, Kore, Tranquility, Tramploin 2 did not change arm but cartridge to DV20X total cost just over Majik spec £4.5k

so I would speak to LP12 specialist and get them to demo options - I would say Power supply, Lingo 4 is superb but also a lot of other Lingo on SH market and cartridge - Arm is the last i would upgrade to be honest PS

Fella's already dropped just short of £3K and been greatly disappointed.

I do not understand what some of you are saying here,the only thing you come up with is that KENT3888 shall continue to push money into his LP12.

I have written some basic advice,start there.
Anyone who can LP12's knows,..That it is "setup" and optimized installation that is absolutely crucial for a LP12's performance.
Regardless of the level at which it is located.

To advise that he should only keep pushing in more money suggests ignorance,and is in my opinion totally reprehensible advice.
A Majik LP12 should definitely play music so the owner will be satisfied,then it is always possible to upgrade...As with everything else.
But it does not solve KENT3888's problems.

I have both a LP12,a Linn Axis and a Linn Basic turntable.
Everyone plays fantastic at their level,and KENT3888's Majik LP12 is definitely better than both my Axis and Basik.
Something to think about or how.

There is how much whatsoever to do to optimize KENT3888's LP12,without starting to upgrade.....or how,....for the heck blokes,come on now...the turntable is new and should play fantastic at their level.

/Peder ????

I have the pleasure of hearing an NDX with XPS2 with Lp12 majik

I expected the NDX to sound broken compared to lp12 but it was really very good.

However my dealer has Lp12 with full linn system. That sounds sublime.

I would say maybe try a linn phono stage....

It is not a foregone conclusion that you will prefer vinyl. I worked in proximity to a maxed out LP12 for years. It was in regular use and most customers preferred it over anything else. Most preferred even a lowly RP3 to some far more expensive digital sources.

I didn't. I preferred most CD players at a fraction of the cost. The number of things I dislike about vinyl would be a fairly long list. But it is not a us vs. them debate (though some treat it as such) and I don't see the point in dredging it out.

If you bought the LP12 after hearing something that wowed you and are not getting it now that it is at home, then by all means, work with your dealer to sort out the issue in the most cost effective way possible. If you bought it on a punt because you were convinced that your "should" like vinyl... well that might be a mistake.

I think the NDX sets a fairly high bar. 

Christopher_M post

Fella's already dropped just short of £3K and been greatly disappointed.

I can't change that, what I did was reply to his email about what Kent asked is to what he could do to improve the deck, so i believe I answered one of his questions, with  my experience and a similar amount of ££££ spent

my best NO COST advicse is to speak to LP12 specialist and get some guidance - and then Demo I would not touch a dealer who could not show you and more over demo the upgrades

After testing this deck A-B compares to my NDX(without external PS). It seems the NDX has way more authoritative and weight compared to my LP12, which disappoints me greatly. I wonder does I need to upgrade the tone-arm and cartridge to bring the LP12 closer to my NDX?

Further to what feeling zen said... I used to believe that it takes a fairly expensive digital source to enjoy music...  But no...

The basic dragonfly black is very musical... 

And so small and affordable 

To add to the debate, I have a very old Linn LP12 Valhalla (30 odd years) one carful owner, me, last serviced 2 years ago with basic+ and new Grado cartridge with Rega phono. I get equal pleasure from both digital and analogue provided the recording is a good one. And there's the crux of the issue. A bad analogue recording will sound bad as will a bad digital recording. If you can't get equal pleasure from both then there's possibly something wrong with the set up or placement of the LP12. I'm not saying that the LP12 is better or worse Than my Uniti-core, just different. Rich 

Hi Kent,

I think Peder has written some good advise above, and I would certainly be speaking to the dealer to get his input. Did you listen to it and do the comparisons before purchase? I would take time to hone what you have before thinking about spending more moolah.

Whether I would expect the LP12 to simply be better than an NDX is interesting. Some of this may come down to how old you are. My ear was 'trained' with LP12s, and I always loved the mid-bass augmentation, but accept that it is not accurate.

Do I think that my LP12/Geddon/Aro/Dyno > EAR868PL is better than my complex digital front end, including ultraRendu & Audionote DAC? NO. I enjoy them both, but their presentation is different.

M

antony d posted:

Christopher_M post

Fella's already dropped just short of £3K and been greatly disappointed.

I can't change that, what I did was reply to his email about what Kent asked is to what he could do to improve the deck, so i believe I answered one of his questions, with  my experience and a similar amount of ££££ spent

my best NO COST advicse is to speak to LP12 specialist and get some guidance - and then Demo I would not touch a dealer who could not show you and more over demo the upgrades

After testing this deck A-B compares to my NDX(without external PS). It seems the NDX has way more authoritative and weight compared to my LP12, which disappoints me greatly. I wonder does I need to upgrade the tone-arm and cartridge to bring the LP12 closer to my NDX?

I agree the guy is asking about upgrades.

Imo there's a lot missing from the original post, such as, has the guy had lots of record players before? Has he had a Linn before? Was the A-B testing done at the dealer? Was the Linn just bought on spec, perhaps because of its reputation? Did the Linn dealer install the LP12? and if so, were they happy with the sound?

So there is plenty that can be addressed before any money is spent.

It could always be though that despite the fact that the Majik LP12 is properly set up and installed, the guy prefers his NDX. Not a crime.

feeling_zen posted:

It is not a foregone conclusion that you will prefer vinyl. I worked in proximity to a maxed out LP12 for years. It was in regular use and most customers preferred it over anything else. Most preferred even a lowly RP3 to some far more expensive digital sources.

I didn't. I preferred most CD players at a fraction of the cost. The number of things I dislike about vinyl would be a fairly long list. But it is not a us vs. them debate (though some treat it as such) and I don't see the point in dredging it out.

If you bought the LP12 after hearing something that wowed you and are not getting it now that it is at home, then by all means, work with your dealer to sort out the issue in the most cost effective way possible. If you bought it on a punt because you were convinced that your "should" like vinyl... well that might be a mistake.

I think the NDX sets a fairly high bar. 

I concur with this (other than that I heard more CD players I didn’t like than those I did, especially in the early years).

Vinyl has significant shortcomings compared to digital done well, so I suspect they will stand out if you come from digital done well rather than being already acclimatised to vinyl. (I don’t know the NDX, though assume it to be significantly better than the ND5XS which didn’t do bad, though was easily improved with a better DAC.)

Kent3888 posted:

I just got myself an entry level LP12 Majik, which Pro-Ject 9cc tonearm with Adikt MM cartridge, no upgrade done. Running it through latest phono amp from Lenjonklou, Gaio 2.

After testing this deck A-B compares to my NDX(without external PS). It seems the NDX has way more authoritative and weight compared to my LP12, which disappoints me greatly. I wonder does I need to upgrade the tone-arm and cartridge to bring the LP12 closer to my NDX?

I seem to recall a few years ago that the ultimate authority on everything Prof. Brian Cox reached the same conclusion ditching his LP12 in favour of an NDX. 

Well obviously he felt that Things Can Only Get Better

Thank you all members for your great advise especially PEDER, where you point out a list of things I should check out whether my Linn dealer did a proper job. I should do a through check on my current setup which is fairly new before ever thinking of upgrading, if what I expect is not coming from LP12 then no point for me to invest more in this route.

I have not own any record player before this, and Linn dealer here doesn't provide home demo service. Hence I have not heard any comparison of Naim streamer vs LP12. I do understood the price vs what I get is not fair comparing LP12 Majik vs NDX, where the latter is nearly twice the price over here in my country.

Well I’ve not heard the current entry level LP12 so cannot comment on the OP’s situation but more generally I just don’t think you can carry out a meaningful comparison between vinyl and digital replay.   Provided that both afford musical enjoyment, groove on.  

Regards,

Lindsay