NAT03 vs NAT05 with 552

The 3 series in general had many more genetic alleles with the legacy olive/chrome bumper series compared to the 5-series. This applies equally to the CD3 and Nait 3-R as compared to the CD5, Nait 5 and so on. One unsung hero in the 3-series was the all-in-one IXO active crossover. The 5 series gained more impressive looks and ergonomic appeal, but lost some of the minimalism and performance-driven design. I have had the NAT-03 in house and when fed with the G-17 multiarray antenna gave a performance well above its price point. 

The apogee of the tuner design was of course the NAT-01, that was only (marginally) let down by its sub-Hicap level NATPS, which was addressed by the XPS-T that only survived for the briefest scintilla. 

A CD3 for instance will not be disgraced when embedded within a 500 system. I don't think the same could be said for the CD-5 ( which really required a Supercap before it sounded less than mundane). 

Alba1320 posted:

TBH, it's much as I would expect, based upon the various Olive v Black comparisons that I've done (though I've not done this specific comparison).

Interesting, please explain.

Simon, out of interest, which version of NAT05 do you have?  Philips head or later ALPS head?  The NAT03 is very under-rated in my opinion. Plenty around too, for not much money.  With FM now looking like it may be with us for quite some time, a NAT03 could be a good s/h buy right now.

Ron, regarding the CD3 vs. CD5 argument, I agree that the CD3 definitely has more "character" to its sound.  Having had my CD3 playing through the 552 I can concur that, on the right kind of music, it can be a most engaging and engrossing player.  However, there's the rub. Its character can also get in the way and become somewhat annoying on music where greater neutrality would work much more effectively. For example, quite a lot of classical pieces were just a bit too coloured when played back via the CD3.  For all that, it had a life to it that made just about anything else sound wonderful - neutrality be damned.  The CD5 by contrast, was rather more even handed, but really came good with a Flatcap2 in tow (never tried the Supercap, wish I had now). It wasn't perfect though, and was still a bit coloured and romantic against something like a CDX.  The CD5+FC2 did have a wonderful "widescreen" sound though, and in character was a bit like a smaller-scale, lower resolution S player. 

I've not heard a NAT-03 on my system,  hearing elsewhere with rooms, amps & especially speakers that are not familiar is not really comparing.  

I recently had a Magnum Dynalab at home for a refurb,  it had been 'stored' with no box & had collected numbers of years of dust & spiders.   It cleaned up nicely & I had it running at home for a week or so & that was an interesting week, it turned my 50/50 split opinion on iRadio vs FM over to FM,  but it had to go back to its lucky owner.

Simon,  if you are unsure of Richards ALPS or Philips question,   the easy way to check is the “pre-set” LED on the tuner display will not illuminate with the ALPS head.     I understand the Philips head models were only in production a short while so not that many around.

Mike-B posted:

...if you are unsure of Richards ALPS or Philips question,   the easy way to check is the “pre-set” LED on the tuner display will not illuminate with the ALPS head.   .....

Thanks, this confirms mine is the Philips. Pleased with it btw.

Richard, it’s the original NAT05 ... ie the one can’t take an off board powersupply... I have powered off and disconnected so can’t valudate Mike’s LED suggestion.

On the NAT03 if interests me how little there is in the case, with a huge no doubt beneficial space between PSU / toroidal transformer and the tuner head end and preamp driver stage.

The NAT-05 has a lot of fresh air between the AC section & tuner head as well, despite the head looking like it's well shielded.  The only real diff is the AC to DC section has its own PCB thats close to the transformer. 

If you have your NAT-05 serial number handy,  that might help ID the tuner head.  If your's is the original NAT05 (not PSU adaptable) it was built between 2001 to 2009,  then followed the XS (PSU adaptable) version.   I'm not sure when the ALPS tuner head was embodied,  I believe it was very early on 2002/3/4'ish,  my NAT-05 is 2006 & it has the ALPS head.  

Mike-B posted:

I'm not sure when the ALPS tuner head was embodied,  I believe it was very early on 2002/3/4'ish,  my NAT-05 is 2006 & it has the ALPS head. 

My NAT05 was made in 2002 and has the Philips head.

Hi both, the serial number of the NAT 05  is 2564XX so that puts it 2008.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi both, the serial number of the NAT 05  is 2564XX so that puts it 2008.

So an ALPS it is then   ..........   

Out of interest what are the key differences, actual or perceived, between the ALPS and Philips tuner head blocks, and what would be my NAT03... do I need its serial for that to?

HI Simon,  I can't find anything on www & the forum that noted any differences between Philips & ALPS,  not even sure if the change notification was released to public at the time,  it predates me on the forum.    Naim do/did make a play on the ALPS head when they moved to the XS (PSU ability) version  - "At the heart of the NAT05 XS lies the high-performance ALPS tuner head .... "     

I have no idea what tuner head the NAT-03 has, I've looked at the various pictures on www but the googlesphere can't trace any of the serial/type numbers that are visible.  It also appears to not have an instruction manual,  I have a manual that covers 01, 02 & then straight to 05.  I read that the head can be realigned at the factory so someone has some info at HQ,  Failing that its time to get the tools out & have a poke around inside.  

Thanks Mike.. may be Richard if he reads this, has some insight.

Simon

IIRC the NAT03 used an ALPS head.

The Philips head was, I'm reliably informed, a good one.  It could have potentially enabled an even better version with off board PSU.  Sadly it was discontinued not long after the NAT05 went into production.

As someone who might have been tempted by a s/h 05, on the basis of matching aesthetics, to replace my venerable (25 year old) 03, it is gratifying that someone else has compared them sonically and I can abandon my search.

My NAT03 has warmed up over a few days, and boy is it sounding good... the top end opens out again... it did always sound respectable.. but the 552 really gives a whole new lease of life... not only a natural measured  sound, but great spatial stereo... ok one slight criticism, a slightly soft deep bass, but that might be a sign of needing a service... listening to the Mark Radcliffe Folk Roadshow and it sounds superb.

I went the other way from 03 to 05 and have been pleased. The first thing I noticed was a deeper, tighter bass on R2, then the clarity.

Well, if you can find yourself a NAIT 3 to go with the 03 you might be back in business..

One old forum member ran the Nait 3R with a Supercap and considered it good VFM as lopsided as that pairing may seem?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

My NAT03 has warmed up over a few days, and boy is it sounding good... the top end opens out again... it did always sound respectable.. but the 552 really gives a whole new lease of life... 

I had a Creek tuner's DIN output modified so it could take a HiLine - at the time into 252, 250 SL2s. It was quite amazing.

Worth trying a HiLine or similar to check - if not doing so already. 

Ron Toolsie posted:

One old forum member ran the Nait 3R with a Supercap and considered it good VFM as lopsided as that pairing may seem?

Steady on, Ron..  IIRC that's Kuma, who I believe is still our number one ranking member, albeit posting mostly in the Music Room these days...

Adam Meredith posted:

Worth trying a HiLine or similar to check - if not doing so already. 

Absolutely, gave it a try..  well the bass tightens and appears to deepen, and a nice presence to the upper mid... thanks for the tip.

Alba1320 posted:

^ Simply, in all of the comparisons that I've done over the years between Olive and Black, I've found the former to provide the more engaging, involving, and musically satisfying performance.

Completely agree I'M running an all Olive system now and have had more compliments from family and friends about the Olive than I ever did about the black boxes.         

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Adam Meredith posted:

Worth trying a HiLine or similar to check - if not doing so already. 

Absolutely, gave it a try..  well the bass tightens and appears to deepen, and a nice presence to the upper mid... thanks for the tip.

As I mainly listened to the human voice (Radio 4) my vaguer impressions of general improvement agree with the areas you note.

I think you could pick the Creek up for buttons (I'd had mine since it was first released). It was a revelation how 'cleaning the window' could let its potential shine.

Adam, which Creek tuner are you referring to? ..a 3040?