Source first.....you’re not kidding!

Same problem here: would love to have te SQ of my LP12 for digital :-)

Wouldn't that be an ND555 with required 555PS ?

24.ooo € for a streamer is out of scope for me... but that‘s my problem of course:-))

Finkfan posted:

... Now, there was a wow moment when I went from streaming on a bare 272 to 272/555 into 250DR. Everything is so much better. But playing music via CDX2/555 into 272/250DR is as big a jump in performance and sounds much better again, stunning in fact!

This does presents me with a big dilemma....How do I get streaming from my Nas to sound this good?? Can it?? One thing is for sure, until streaming sounds this good, the CDX2 stays. As adding a Linear power supply to the Nas has been dismissed, that only leaves the humble Ethernet cable doesn’t it?? 

Suggestions on where to go from here welcome

I am not familiar with either the CDX2 or the 272 thus my question is perhaps a bit naive but: what do you mean by "playing music via CDX2/555 into 272/250DR"? Is the CDX2 connected to the 272 via SPDIF (thus using the 272's DAC) or via analogue outputs (thus using the CDX2's DAC)?

In the first case your findings imply that you prefer the CDX2 transport (when the CDX2 is powered by the 555) to the streaming platform of the 272 (when the 272 is powered by the 555). In this case, you are looking for a network player or for a streamer with a better streaming platform than the 272.

In the second case you are using the CDX2's DAC and your findings imply that you prefer the CDX2's DAC (when the CDX2 is powered by the 555) to the 272's DAC (when the 272 is powered by the 555). In this case, you are looking for a  streamer which has a better DAC than the 272. Or to a network player with a separate DAC wich is better than the 272's DAC.

T38.45 posted:

Same problem here: would love to have te SQ of my LP12 for digital :-)

Aren't the most recent Chord DACs supposed to match or even exceed the sound quality of analogue devices?

I guess the only answer really is separates. I rejected the 272 in preference for an NDX because to me, it just sounded more musical. There is no getting away from the fact that climbing the Naim ladder means collecting more boxes!

nbpf posted:

Finkfan posted:

... Now, there was a wow moment when I went from streaming on a bare 272 to 272/555 into 250DR. Everything is so much better. But playing music via CDX2/555 into 272/250DR is as big a jump in performance and sounds much better again, stunning in fact!

This does presents me with a big dilemma....How do I get streaming from my Nas to sound this good?? Can it?? One thing is for sure, until streaming sounds this good, the CDX2 stays. As adding a Linear power supply to the Nas has been dismissed, that only leaves the humble Ethernet cable doesn’t it?? 

Suggestions on where to go from here welcome

I am not familiar with either the CDX2 or the 272 thus my question is perhaps a bit naive but: what do you mean by "playing music via CDX2/555 into 272/250DR"? Is the CDX2 connected to the 272 via SPDIF (thus using the 272's DAC) or via analogue outputs (thus using the CDX2's DAC)?

In the first case your findings imply that you prefer the CDX2 transport (when the CDX2 is powered by the 555) to the streaming platform of the 272 (when the 272 is powered by the 555). In this case, you are looking for a network player or for a streamer with a better streaming platform than the 272.

In the second case you are using the CDX2's DAC and your findings imply that you prefer the CDX2's DAC (when the CDX2 is powered by the 555) to the 272's DAC (when the 272 is powered by the 555). In this case, you are looking for a  streamer which has a better DAC than the 272. Or to a network player with a separate DAC wich is better than the 272's DAC.

It’s the second case for me at this point. 

I actually used my CDX2 as a reference and tweaked my network setup untill NDX sounded as good as my CDX2.
CDX2 is long gone now - a good friend of mine is enjoying it with his SN2.

By tweaking I meant: streaming cables, power supply for my NAS, good patch-cables between NAS and my CISCO switch and for streaming connections (between the patch-panel and the switch).

How about leaving the 555 on the 272,then feeding the cdx2 into a Chord Mscaler/Qutest DAC? Many different ways to get good sound ...

The CDX2 is a .1 version with no digital out. I’m using a TQ Black Diamond din, so will give their streaming cable a try. 

Finkfan posted:

The CDX2 is a .1 version with no digital out. I’m using a TQ Black Diamond din, so will give their streaming cable a try. 

Oh I see,but leaving the 555 on the CD player takes away from the streaming side of things,so a choice you have to make I guess.Myself, I am thinking of demoing the Mscaler when it comes out,but in my case,feed it from the BNC out of my Core.

According to some there should be some bargain NDXs and NDSs on the second hand market due to those pesky, newfangled streamers Naim insisted on launching, and you already have a 555 to power a separate streamer. But you will need one of those old fashioned Naim pre amps to go with it. I know, I know, the posh new way is a one box, fancy pants solution instead of a rack full of black boxes, but one box will never sound as good a a teetering rack full. Just my humble opinion, you understand.

BTW there are some bargain 282 pre-loved pre amps out there to go with a broken NDX or NDS. Oh, yes you will also need a HiCap (DR if possible). I'll admit the list is getting a bit longer, but you could do worse and it will walk all over a 272/555.

Ducks for cover.

To improve on the 272 you'll need separate boxes. Spilt the 272 into a pre, power supply, and streamer. No surprise really  

T38.45 posted:

Same problem here: would love to have te SQ of my LP12 for digital :-)

 

Try a Hugo DAC. Or TT, or better still Dave, and for the ultimate, perhaps, add the Chord MScaler (or Blu2 if you want CD rather than streaming)

Finkfan posted:

nbpf posted:

Finkfan posted:

... Now, there was a wow moment when I went from streaming on a bare 272 to 272/555 into 250DR. Everything is so much better. But playing music via CDX2/555 into 272/250DR is as big a jump in performance and sounds much better again, stunning in fact!

This does presents me with a big dilemma....How do I get streaming from my Nas to sound this good?? Can it?? One thing is for sure, until streaming sounds this good, the CDX2 stays. As adding a Linear power supply to the Nas has been dismissed, that only leaves the humble Ethernet cable doesn’t it?? 

Suggestions on where to go from here welcome

I am not familiar with either the CDX2 or the 272 thus my question is perhaps a bit naive but: what do you mean by "playing music via CDX2/555 into 272/250DR"? Is the CDX2 connected to the 272 via SPDIF (thus using the 272's DAC) or via analogue outputs (thus using the CDX2's DAC)?

In the first case your findings imply that you prefer the CDX2 transport (when the CDX2 is powered by the 555) to the streaming platform of the 272 (when the 272 is powered by the 555). In this case, you are looking for a network player or for a streamer with a better streaming platform than the 272.

In the second case you are using the CDX2's DAC and your findings imply that you prefer the CDX2's DAC (when the CDX2 is powered by the 555) to the 272's DAC (when the 272 is powered by the 555). In this case, you are looking for a  streamer which has a better DAC than the 272. Or to a network player with a separate DAC wich is better than the 272's DAC.

It’s the second case for me at this point. 

In this case you are looking for a streamer with a better onboard DAC than the onboard DAC of the 272 or for a network player with a separate DAC.

When the Naim DAC was introduced, it was designed to "upgrade the onboard DAC of the CDX2 CD player". Thus, a second hand Naim DAC seems a very natural starting point in your search for a CDX2+555 streaming alternative. But you still would need a network player and, most importantly, a second 555 to improve over the 272+555 combo, I suspect. At this point a Chord DAC (again, with a good network player) or, perhaps, a NDX2 with a second 555 would appear more natural choices.

Anyway you'll need to make a basic choice (streamer vs. separated network player + DAC) and then carefully demo a few alternatives against your CDX2+555 reference system. Please, let us know how your search goes on and your findings!

I have to say, I was tempted by the 272, but now eagerly await the NDX 2. Probably with a 250/282/HiCap.

Finkfan, as others have said, the way to improve on the 272 is to spend more money and add more boxes. It’s just the way that things are with  Naim. The trick for you is to know when enough is enough. Does it matter that there is always something better? Do you have to keep up with Wenger? 

When I went to streaming, five years ago, I sold my CDS2. I have no means of playing CDs and am unable to make comparisons. Once streaming has been adopted I see no point in having a CD player and horrid CDs all over the place taking up space. Yes, maybe album X would sound slightly better on CD player Y. So what? All the time you keep making comparisons you will never be happy. I’d suggest deciding on streaming or CD, optimising that part of the system and then just enjoy listening to music. Collect boxes by all means, but be very clear why you are doing it. Is it to keep up with others? Is it the boxes that are important? Or does it really, really, get you closer to the music and improve your enjoyment of life?

Morning HH

The appeal of the 272 for me was box count. I am keen to keep it as low as possible. I don’t have endless amounts of disposable income to throw at black boxes, and keeping up with the Jones’ is not something that’s on my mind at all. I’m looking/ listening for a system that sounds right to me. And with my tinnitus it won’t be the same as the next guy. I had a 250 added to my SN a while ago and the natural next step was to change SN for a pre amp. Keen to keep numbers down and save spending considerable amounts of cash, my dealer offered me an excellent deal on the 272 and this meant I could have a fair go at streaming. My initial thought was a 282, but this would mean adding a streamer at a time when funds didn’t allow. I purchased a Nas and Cisco switch and I was up and running. A year later and my system has improved with the recent addition of the 555 to the 272, but I still feel it’s not what I’m looking for. And that’s what this is about, how it makes you feel. 272/555/250 may be nirvana for some, and don’t get wrong, I do realize how lucky I am to own a system at this level. For me though, it’s not the sound i’m after. My dealer has options for me with a pre loved 282 which could replace the 272. Would just need to find a HCDR. This would give me a system of 

CDX2/555

282/HCDR

250DR

In time I can put the CDX2 towards an NDX or NDS, and I’d demo these for an extended period before committing. Whilst streaming is very convenient, and I’ve been doing it for a year, it just can’t match the sound of the CDX2. Bare it’s better than the Nas. With the added PS i don’t think I can go back. I really wish the 272/555 combo was the end for me. But I’ve spent 2 hours listening to CDs again this morning. My dealer will send over a streaming cable to try and who knows, this may be what I need. I think it’s only fair that I give the 272 the best chance to show me what it can do and I feel I’m doing that. At the end of the day the convenience of streaming has got me more music, but hasn’t got me closer to it. 

Thanks for taking the time to reply so thoughtfully. It sounds as though you know exactly what to do, which is great. The system you propose will, I’m sure, be lovely. As you say, it’s getting closer to the music that matters: access to all the music in the world is useless unless it does something for you. 

Interesting that you like me have tinnitus, mine's constant 24/7. I compared Naim CD against Core with different Dac's etc., and could happily live with either. I ended up with, after several comparisons and auditions over a few weeks, Core, 272, 250DR & PMC 20 24. On the very far horizon I'll eventually get a separate power supply for the 272. This also sounds very good with a Linn front end. If possible I'd audition with some one who doesn't have tinnitus, such as your partner, not only for a different view point but because they also will be using the music making equipment. Rich. 

Hi Rich

My tinnitus is 24/7 too. I’ve had it since I had my ears syringed as a child, so over 30 years now. Fortunately it hasn’t affected the range I can hear, but the constant high pitched squeel can be torturous at times. This is why my system has to sound right to me. A thing that aggravates it is highly unpleasant to listen to. I’m fortunate in that the system I use is only for me. My family aren’t that interested in music. The smoother sound of the CDX2/555 is working for me right now. 

Yes, the high pitched sizzling I get can be very annoying and if I turn up the volume it doesn't make much difference. However I have 'learnt' over the years to filter out the noise. I was born with tinnitus so no no difference, I thought it was normal and that everyone had this background noise. In a perverse way if the noise was to go I think I'd miss it as I'm not used to a deathly quiet background. Anyway enjoy your final choices of equipment and to paraphrase Strictly, keeep listening (and enjoy the music). Rich 

Finkfan posted:

Morning HH

The appeal of the 272 for me was box count. I am keen to keep it as low as possible. I don’t have endless amounts of disposable income to throw at black boxes, and keeping up with the Jones’ is not something that’s on my mind at all. I’m looking/ listening for a system that sounds right to me. And with my tinnitus it won’t be the same as the next guy. I had a 250 added to my SN a while ago and the natural next step was to change SN for a pre amp. Keen to keep numbers down and save spending considerable amounts of cash, my dealer offered me an excellent deal on the 272 and this meant I could have a fair go at streaming. My initial thought was a 282, but this would mean adding a streamer at a time when funds didn’t allow. I purchased a Nas and Cisco switch and I was up and running. A year later and my system has improved with the recent addition of the 555 to the 272, but I still feel it’s not what I’m looking for. And that’s what this is about, how it makes you feel. 272/555/250 may be nirvana for some, and don’t get wrong, I do realize how lucky I am to own a system at this level. For me though, it’s not the sound i’m after. My dealer has options for me with a pre loved 282 which could replace the 272. Would just need to find a HCDR. This would give me a system of 

CDX2/555

282/HCDR

250DR

In time I can put the CDX2 towards an NDX or NDS, and I’d demo these for an extended period before committing. Whilst streaming is very convenient, and I’ve been doing it for a year, it just can’t match the sound of the CDX2. Bare it’s better than the Nas. With the added PS i don’t think I can go back. I really wish the 272/555 combo was the end for me. But I’ve spent 2 hours listening to CDs again this morning. My dealer will send over a streaming cable to try and who knows, this may be what I need. I think it’s only fair that I give the 272 the best chance to show me what it can do and I feel I’m doing that. At the end of the day the convenience of streaming has got me more music, but hasn’t got me closer to it. 

Very interesting remarks! You are mentioning tinnitus. I am suffering from the same problem and I am convinced that tinnitus has an impact on what I feel to sound "right". The converse of "right" very easily implies fatigue or, at the very least, distraction. I believe that I have a rather bad hearing but I feel particularly sensitive to artifacts in high registers. Good tests for me are symphonies in which the violins are required to play fortissimo or sequences involving high-pitched brass instruments. Of course the problems often lie in the recordings, not in the replay system. Since you have a source that already works for you very well, the CDX2+555, just start from there! Get the "right" amplification and speakers for that source. Later, you will be able to test different streaming approaches (via streamer or separated network player + DAC) against your reference source if you fancy to do so. This will be an interesting process that you will be able to do in a controlled fashion and that might yield new surprises. By that time the performance of the new Naim classical streamers will have been established in comparison to similarly priced products and perhaps we will have a new Naim DAC or an HDD server + player with support for internet streaming and internet radio.

I seem to get the impression reading through this thread that the only way to get to the level of a cdx2/555 is by exchanging the 272 with an NDS. An NDS/555 I’m sure would be a winning combination.

Possibly going down the pre-loved route may be one answer as many owners are of course trading up....

Alternatively maybe trading in the 272 for the 282/HC is the better way forward.....???

Unless you spend extremely large sums of cash it seems to me streaming is somewhat overhyped?

Streaming with a suitable store/renderer, which can even include a Mac Mini running Audirvana, or something like an NDX as renderer, together with even the lowly Hugo DAC, sounds really rather excellent, though I have no idea how it compares to CDX2/555 as I’ve never heard latter. Depending on how you like your sound, Hugo might work well with 272, though I don’t recall anyone reporting trying.

swapping Hugo for Dave is quite so ething.