Source first.....you’re not kidding!

Innocent Bystander posted:

Streaming with a suitable store/renderer, which can even include a Mac Mini running Audirvana, or something like an NDX as renderer, together with even the lowly Hugo DAC, sounds really rather excellent, though I have no idea how it compares to CDX2/555 as I’ve never heard latter. Depending on how you like your sound, Hugo might work well with 272, though I don’t recall anyone reporting trying.

swapping Hugo for Dave is quite so ething.

I have demoed a Hugo 2,and a Dave with my N272.Fed from my Core,into analog inputs on the 272,both Chord products were an improvement on the 272s DAC,but nothing jaw dropping.The Dave was simply too expensive,and the H2 has mini 3.5 connection,so that was a turn off...in the end I stuck with the 272 internal DAC.I may try again when the new mscaler comes out.I know people will say it is a waste with the 272,I agree,but I also have a Cary Audio preamp that I might use.

I rejected the 272 in preference for an NDX because to me, it just sounded more musical.

wenger2015 posted:

I seem to get the impression reading through this thread that the only way to get to the level of a cdx2/555 is by exchanging the 272 with an NDS. An NDS/555 I’m sure would be a winning combination.

Possibly going down the pre-loved route may be one answer as many owners are of course trading up....

Alternatively maybe trading in the 272 for the 282/HC is the better way forward.....???

Unless you spend extremely large sums of cash it seems to me streaming is somewhat overhyped?

This is the case if you pretend to go the NDS or the ND555 way. But you could probably improve on the 272's internal DAC with a second hand Naim DAC of with a Chord DAC. These would have to be complemented with a network player like the ultraRendu or the sMS-200ultra, however. And this means more boxes and more complexity!

The problem is that you are trying to do two things at the same time: improve your DAC and improve your amplification. This is not a good idea, in my view.

You seem to be perfectly fine with the CDX2+555 and with your current amplification. If this is the case, just keep your current amplification and try feeding it with a better network player + DAC. This is easy to demo against the CDX2+555 that you know and like. You might find out that you simply do not like certain DACs (tinnitus, habit, etc.) or that there is something wrong with your network connection. Are you using a recommended switch with a suitable power supply?

I would always put music first above all else on a non personal level and if that means a few boxes on a rack and lots of records or CD's in my living or listening room then so be it I would never sacrifice the SQ of my music for a more empty 'show house' living room.

Naim have sacrificed SQ for lifestyle products and from a purely business view they are probably right but I would like to hear what would happen if they put the same money into developing a new pre/power amp range as they have into the Uniti range.

After living with the 272 for over 15 months I’ve decided to move it on. I’ll be getting in touch with my dealer at the end of the week. I’ve given it a fair amount of time I feel, but for me it just isn’t quite hitting the spot. It’s a great box and I’ve had fun with it, but I’ve also found that when using the streaming side I get the urge to tweak, either the speaker position, seating position, cables, something just isn’t right for me. Initially I was hugely impressed by the sound from the 2 box combo, I was playing CDs less and less. This however was more due to convenience than sound. I added a 555 to the 272 and that boosted the performance considerably. However, the bare CDX2.1 into the 272 is still better than streaming and as a £4.5K source I guess it should be. Adding the 555 to the CDX2 sounds fantastic, even in to bare 272. I have always said to myself that streaming would have to match the way the CDX2 produces music for me to be completely committed to it, and the streamer in the 272 can’t compete to my ears. I really wanted a 2/3 box solution as space in my listening room is limited. But it looks like a 282/napsc/HCDR will be replacing the 272 with a view to trying streaming again at some point. In a year or two a pre loved NDS may be what I’m after. 

Hi Finkfan, good to see you have a plan. You can’t really compare transport methods of play back being generically sounding better than others, because clearly that is a nonsense, (ie saying CD is better than streaming, or FM is better than CD) but you can clearly compare devices irrespective of their transport. as it appears you have done.

The CDX2 mk1 is a special player, I love mine and I enjoy it bare into my 552... I found the better the NAC, the better the CDX2 sounded on its own, especially if on Fraim, and I certainly didn’t enjoy my 555PS on my CDX2.. it sounded too exagerates  and Hi-Fi and not musical enough to my ears.

However the CDX2 is not the most neutral of players albeit it uses the PCM1704K as used in the ND555... it also very much about the the analogue currenct to voltage converter and filtering output stages.

So I have a choice of sources to suit mood and genre... my go to player is the mk1 Hugo (albeit I think I have a better than average example) fed by a NDX... absolutely stellar.. haven’t heard anything significantly better it including DAVE and ND555... but I perhaps listen to my music a certain way.. For max enjoyment listen into it rather than let it wash over me, and the Hugo excels at letting me do that. My 552 DR was a big forward and allowed me to enjoy my various sources more for what they are .. each has its character.. one size doesn’t fit alll.. after all it’s why we have those inputs on our NAC.

So in your endeavours the only advice I can give is focus on two things above all else and the rest will follow.

• The NAC (Naim preamp). The heart of a system and the most influential component in terms of sheer SQ on a good system.
• The speaker/room coupling. Perhaps neglected by some, but critical to enjoying music without distracting artefacts of booms, brightness, muddy sound, no presence, lack of mid detail, poor timing, poor dynamics  etc etc.

Glad you found what works for you FINKFAN,or should I say doesn’t work for you.Out of curiosity,what were you streaming from?just Tidal,or do you have downloaded,ripped files.Also,have you ever tried an XPSDR on the CDX2?

Hi NQ 

  I am/was streaming from a Nas. I tried an XPSDR on the 272 and whilst there was in improvement I felt it was fairly subtle and I couldn’t justify the cost. I didn’t try the XPS on the CDX2. 

Hi Simon

Im hoping the 282 will work for me. My dealer has a couple of Pre loved models for me to consider. 

I really enjoyed the sound of my SN1 a couple of years ago, which improved with the addition on the 250DR. Next step was to change SN for a Nac and whilst I was initially thinking of 282 my dealer gave me a demo of a 272 and offered me a great deal, so I took him up on it. 

Changing to 282 is within my budget as the only real outlay will be the purchase of a HCDR. Maybe a better Nac one day....but that’s not on my mind at the moment.

In time I will look at streamers again. I just need to find one that works for me as well as the CDX2 does. Is that an NDX 1 or 2? Or an NDS? 

Finkfan posted:

Hi NQ 

  I am/was streaming from a Nas. I tried an XPSDR on the 272 and whilst there was in improvement I felt it was fairly subtle and I couldn’t justify the cost. I didn’t try the XPS on the CDX2. 

I thought the XPS was a big improvement on the 272 at a dealer demo, but not enough to beat the NDX/282 I ended up buying instead. I wanted to keep box count down to 3, so I went for a 200DR to power the 282. I’d have liked a 250, but to me this was a compromise worth making to get the best source and preamp. 

Hi [@mention:23389351206659471]

switch is Cisco 2960 which cannot be powered by anything other than its internal smps. This was an improvement over the previous Netgear switch. 

ChrisSU posted:

Finkfan posted:

Hi NQ 

  I am/was streaming from a Nas. I tried an XPSDR on the 272 and whilst there was in improvement I felt it was fairly subtle and I couldn’t justify the cost. I didn’t try the XPS on the CDX2. 

I thought the XPS was a big improvement on the 272 at a dealer demo, but not enough to beat the NDX/282 I ended up buying instead. I wanted to keep box count down to 3, so I went for a 200DR to power the 282. I’d have liked a 250, but to me this was a compromise worth making to get the best source and preamp. 

For me the XPSDR, although improving the 272, wasn’t enough of a difference to justify the addition. So I held out for a 555 which immediately improved every aspect of the 272. Of course this also improved the sound from the analog inputs and so CD playback stayed head and shoulders above the Nas and even more so Tidal. 

The only real answer to streaming is an ND555.....???

wenger2015 posted:

The only real answer to streaming is an ND555.....???

If that was a question, the answer is no!

Interesting last few threads. I ‘downgraded’ from NDX XPS 282 HCDR napsc 250.2 to 272/XPSDR 250DR only to find it a definite ‘upgrade’!

G

Interesting Graeham 

In what way do you find the 272/250 preferable? 

More believable textures and ‘presence’ of the musicians, better rhythmic drive...more ‘real’ sounding ultimately. Closer to the CDS3/555/252/300 I used to have in terms of sonic signature.

As you say, it’s simply a ‘preference’.

G

I wonder how much of an impact the DR versions of XPS and 250 had? 

Finkfan posted:

I wonder how much of an impact the DR versions of XPS and 250 had? 

Even using the 272 ‘bare’ I prefer the way music is presented, but I also agree it’s partly about a chain-link of newer DR technology.  

I still think naim got something incredibly ‘right’ in the 272. The interconnect free synergy between streamer, dac & pre gives really enjoyable insight into recorded music.

G

Streaming is obviously a good format.

But....

I personally don’t want to just listen to music, I want to listen to music sounding its absolute best within my financial restraints...

So for me, an NDS is probably the level that I would want to have.....in order to achieve my listening expectations ..

But obviously it’s all about personal preference....

My dealer has been in touch and I’ll soon have a 282 on demo. Looking forward to hearing that in my room.

Naim streamers for me to consider in the future will be an NDX2 or a pre loved NDS. I wonder how these will compare? 

Finkfan,

Thats good news, it will be interesting to hear your thoughts once installed....

Hi,

My UnitiServ is broken and I've been looking for replacements ...

In the previous posts the word "streaming" is used quite often in a way that, IMO, is comparing apples and pears.

I went the US route as a convenient way to play ripped CD's (and perhaps hi-res) from my local NAS; a CD replay replacement if you will. This is not streaming so why go all the way with a network streamer?

If, like me, you are interested in replaying your own curated music collection from a local store then I think the comparison is between a CD player and a Uniti Serv/Core.

A network streamer is a different source streaming music from across the internet.

... so my decision is to repair and service the UnitiServ; a UnitiCore is 4 or 5 times the price of repair, an NDX2 is providing streaming stuff I don't need.

Next upgrade is either a new DAC (currently have DAC V1) and 252 (currently 202); orif it comes in time, a new N272 replacement.

Allan

Finkfan,  as Wenger said it will be interesting to hear thought on both the comparison of the282 verses the 272 plus the NDX2 against the NDS.

I hope you do get to a level streaming that you enjoy, I started streaming about seven years ago using non Naim streaming devices it was only when I bought my NDX which was originally used in a Olive system that I realised what the potential of streaming could be.

When I upgraded my Olive system some time ago I added a XPSdr to the NDX which took it to another level so much so that I sold my CD player, streaming is my only source and I find so much more convenient quite ironically I buy far more CDs since I sold my CD player?

Allan Milne posted:

 In the previous posts the word "streaming" is used quite often in a way that, IMO, is comparing apples and pears.

I went the US route as a convenient way to play ripped CD's (and perhaps hi-res) from my local NAS; a CD replay replacement if you will. This is not streaming so why go all the way with a network streamer?

If, like me, you are interested in replaying your own curated music collection from a local store then I think the comparison is between a CD player and a Uniti Serv/Core.

A network streamer is a different source streaming music from across the internet.

 

In order to avoid confusion, I think it's best to use the term streaming to mean the same thing that Naim take it to mean - and every other HiFi manufacturer as far as I'm aware, which is playing music sent over a network from a server. Initially, this meant a server on your own network, and the term was used before web based streaming services like Tidal even existed. So to say that streaming can only mean streaming over the internet is misleading. I would not class playing from a Core or Unitiserve over SPDIF as streaming, as you are not using a network, or a streamer.