Pmc fact 8

I believe so subject to individual room acoustics.

It strikes as me as odd that the 2 speakers are so close in price from one brand.

Are you planning on buying either and what else have you considered?

I am currently running Fact 8’s with a 552/300 and occasionally think of try kudos/focal

Gary

fathings cat posted:

I believe so subject to individual room acoustics.

It strikes as me as odd that the 2 speakers are so close in price from one brand.

Are you planning on buying either and what else have you considered?

I am currently running Fact 8’s with a 552/300 and occasionally think of try kudos/focal

Gary

 

Hi, I do have fact 12 on loan they sound amazing but they are too big in  bass power  for my room... so I might try the fact 8. 

Having heard both in an audition to my ears the Fact 12 is simply in a different league to the Twenty.26, a better product all round. I picture the F8 as being more akin to a more refined  Twenty5.23 or possibly 20.24, but that really is just a guess...

I would expect twenty5 26 to exceed fact 8 for sound quality due to the dedicated mid driver. The fact 12 is really the one to compare.

I've listened to Twenty 26 and thought they were very special, alas too much bass for my room. I would expect fact 12 to be even better.

Another one to consider is ATC SCM40. PMC's mid driver is modelled on ATC mid but ATC offer much better value imho, they can keep retail costs lower as they make their own drivers, unlike PMC.

One interesting feature on PMC fact range are the switches on the rear to adjust bass response to your room. Not sure to the extent that these deteriorate sound quality. To be honest digital eq these days (if simple -6db bass reduction) is probably far superior to any analog circuitry if using a digital source such as laptop playing Roon or iTunes.

Interesting, you can adjust the bass but that’s only playing in the margins. If you can’t get them sounding right with placement and your room then fair enough.  (I believe they are relatively  unfussy on placement)

I did like the look and sound of the focal Kanta when I heard them and as I said Kudos seem highly regarded.

 Given the investment it’s well worth taking your time and finding / having a patient dealer! 

Gary

Halloween Man posted:

I would expect twenty5 26 to exceed fact 8 for sound quality due to the dedicated mid driver. The fact 12 is really the one to compare.

I've listened to Twenty 26 and thought they were very special, alas too much bass for my room. I would expect fact 12 to be even better.

Another one to consider is ATC SCM40. PMC's mid driver is modelled on ATC mid but ATC offer much better value imho, they can keep retail costs lower as they make their own drivers, unlike PMC.

One interesting feature on PMC fact range are the switches on the rear to adjust bass response to your room. Not sure to the extent that these deteriorate sound quality. To be honest digital eq these days (if simple -6db bass reduction) is probably far superior to any analog circuitry if using a digital source such as laptop playing Roon or iTunes.

Although some drivers are other manufacturers products tailored to PMC’s specification, my understanding is that PMC do make a number of their own drivers, e.g. the 3” soft dome in their upper models (SE series), which I believe to be a near clone of ATCs sublime mid. I don’t know if that includes the 2” dome in the Fact 12 or the different 2” in the 26s. (If they don’t actually manufacture the drivers, They certainly claim to design them, though it is unclear if actual manufacture might be by another company.

The bass lift and cut are simply to tailor slightly to different rooms - and different tastes (but not not compensate for significant room effects). Being part of the passive crossover circuitry they are very different from tone controls used earlier in the signal path, or indeed DSP tailoring, and of course work regardless af any availability of control further up te path.

I've never read anywhere that PMC make any of their own drivers. Also, on speaker switches I know of, to control bass or treble the cut or boost is before the crossover circuitry, how do you know IB that this isn't the case with PMC Fact speakers? -6db bass reduction can make a big difference to a room mode peak.

Halloween Man posted:

I would expect twenty5 26 to exceed fact 8 for sound quality due to the dedicated mid driver. The fact 12 is really the one to compare.

I've listened to Twenty 26 and thought they were very special, alas too much bass for my room. I would expect fact 12 to be even better.

Another one to consider is ATC SCM40. PMC's mid driver is modelled on ATC mid but ATC offer much better value imho, they can keep retail costs lower as they make their own drivers, unlike PMC.

One interesting feature on PMC fact range are the switches on the rear to adjust bass response to your room. Not sure to the extent that these deteriorate sound quality. To be honest digital eq these days (if simple -6db bass reduction) is probably far superior to any analog circuitry if using a digital source such as laptop playing Roon or iTunes.

Thanks for reply the switches do work in reduction of bass, so I reckon it could be either the nac 282 or the nap 300 I got a lone of is non Dr, and this is causing the loose bass. 

Halloween Man posted:

I've never read anywhere that PMC make any of their own drivers. 

I think I have, though I don’t recall where, though I have also read that some drivers have been made by the likes of Dynaudio and Seas to PMC’s design, so there is a lack of certainty as to whether those described as PMC drivers might be made for them by someone else. Some others are clearly sourced from other manufacturers, e.g. Volt and VIfa being variants of models they sell, but not the same versions as sold openly by those manufacturers.

Halloween Man posted:

 Also, on speaker switches I know of, to control bass or treble the cut or boost is before the crossover circuitry, how do you know IB that this isn't the case with PMC Fact speakers? -6db bass reduction can make a big difference to a room mode peak.

Old IMF speakers had adjustable controls that switched resistors, and  R/C networks in or out of the feed to drivers. I do not know for a certainty what PMC does, but that to me is a reasonable assumption, given the effect of the switches, and PMC’s heritage - and to me is the only logical thing to do to tailor response at the speaker itself (passive speakers)

I run Fact.8 speakers and on suspended wooden floors at highish volumes, bass did excite the room too much. Extra isolation by using machine feet and rubber cork discs in place of supplied spikes is a better solution that means you can keep the dip switches flat. This achieved a better result in my room. If you really like the Facts then this could be something to explore.

PMC make some of their own drivers. Even within the same loudsoeaker you may get a mix of PMC and SEAS drivers. 

Twenty/Twenty5 range uses SEAS tweeters and PMC  bass units. Fact range is PMC units for everything.

If the only thing between you and a set of speakers is bass boom and everything else is right don’t discount them as that boom can be controlled. 

Indeed. Controlled by perhaps going down the Fact.3 route. 

Bob the Builder posted:

If the only thing between you and a set of speakers is bass boom and everything else is right don’t discount them as that boom can be controlled. 

Yes, I am looking a the Wood floor might need to sort that out what could I sit the speaker on.... In thís situation. 

feeling_zen posted:

Indeed. Controlled by perhaps going down the Fact.3 route. 

I think BtB meant not different speaker, but positioning and room treatment (and given that the Fact 12 of course might be  be the way to go for better sound with its separate mid - except way more expensive, though I have seen ex-dem and secondhand ones for barely more than the normal new price of Twenty5-26

The limitation is that treatment at the bass end can be bulky, and so could be a challenge domestically.

One of the best things you can do to isolate speaker from floor is to use granite slabs. I use Audio Serenity Level 2 Isolation Platforms with speaker spikes and shoes.

You really need speakers out at least 30cm empty space from rear wall and even further for side walls. The listening position (your ears) need to be at least 50cm from any walls. Keep both yourself and most importantly the speakers well away from corners and room boundaries.

Innocent Bystander posted:

The limitation is that treatment at the bass end can be bulky, and so could be a challenge domestically.

That is an understatement! You'd need massive amounts of insulation in a room to reduce a 40-50Hz bass peak just -6db. Simply not possible in a domestic environment.

Best thing you can do imho is optimise positioning and live with it, change speakers if you can't, or apply small amount eq cut.

I've learned from experience.