Next upgrade - ND555 or Pre/ power

nigelb posted:

RM posted:

boom posted:

I was at the same crossroads earlier this year. When I replaced my S400 with Sopra2, all of a sudden everything came together and my music was much more engaging.

Sometimes speakers do come before source.

Enjoy your wonderful speakers.

 

Thanks and I agree, a change of speakers has brought such an improvement. I’m glad I did not get tempted to keep adding black boxes without addressing the speakers. Feel like the system is now nicely balanced for the time being  

Just as well you didn't give the 552 a listen. If you had, I would wager this story would have ended differently.

Enjoy the new speakers, they are exceptional, and likely to be my next investigation, having heard them at a dealer demo.

 

552 is aspirationally the next step but it can wait a bit. I can only imagine how fabulous the system would sound with 552...

RM posted:

nigelb posted:

RM posted:

boom posted:

I was at the same crossroads earlier this year. When I replaced my S400 with Sopra2, all of a sudden everything came together and my music was much more engaging.

Sometimes speakers do come before source.

Enjoy your wonderful speakers.

 

Thanks and I agree, a change of speakers has brought such an improvement. I’m glad I did not get tempted to keep adding black boxes without addressing the speakers. Feel like the system is now nicely balanced for the time being  

Just as well you didn't give the 552 a listen. If you had, I would wager this story would have ended differently.

Enjoy the new speakers, they are exceptional, and likely to be my next investigation, having heard them at a dealer demo.

 

552 is aspirationally the next step but it can wait a bit. I can only imagine how fabulous the system would sound with 552...

May be not as aspirational as you might think. I am demoing a mint 2008 pre loved (non DR) example and it comes in way under the price of a new pair of 606s when my 252/SuperCapDR are traded in. In fact, I think it is the best bargain I have bagged since playing this game!

When you are ready I thouroughly recommend you demo a 552 at home next in your system and go for pre loved or ex dem as they sound the same as a new 'un.

Enjoy

nigelb posted:

RM posted:

nigelb posted:

RM posted:

boom posted:

I was at the same crossroads earlier this year. When I replaced my S400 with Sopra2, all of a sudden everything came together and my music was much more engaging.

Sometimes speakers do come before source.

Enjoy your wonderful speakers.

 

Thanks and I agree, a change of speakers has brought such an improvement. I’m glad I did not get tempted to keep adding black boxes without addressing the speakers. Feel like the system is now nicely balanced for the time being  

Just as well you didn't give the 552 a listen. If you had, I would wager this story would have ended differently.

Enjoy the new speakers, they are exceptional, and likely to be my next investigation, having heard them at a dealer demo.

 

552 is aspirationally the next step but it can wait a bit. I can only imagine how fabulous the system would sound with 552...

May be not as aspirational as you might think. I am demoing a mint 2008 pre loved (non DR) example and it comes in way under the price of a new pair of 606s when my 252/SuperCapDR are traded in. In fact, I think it is the best bargain I have bagged since playing this game!

When you are ready I thouroughly recommend you demo a 552 at home next in your system and go for pre loved or ex dem as they sound the same as a new 'un.

Enjoy

Thanks Nigel, good advice. All the best with your home dem. 

RM posted:

Then it was time for the 606s. Not as efficient as 707s but in many ways a better package for the room - clean and open treble (not bright) but a beautiful fluid way with the music and no shortage of bottom end when it’s there in the music. Lovely big soundstage too and great low level dynamics. 

 

I'm still working on getting to listen to Kudos. I'd love to hear more about your impressions of 606 vs. 707.  I sit about 9 feet (2.75m) from my speakers and decor-wise the 606's would fit better.  Currently own 252/250DR but pretty intent on trying a 300DR.

Indeed the 707's are rated as more efficient than the 606's; interesting!

Bart, I found in my system that changing the 250dr for a 300dr was a massive improvement all Rond this was with a NDX the recent ND555 has taken things on much further.

A good dealer should take you thru the options of a source change, preamp or power amp ......

ND555, 252 vs 552, and a NAP 300. The latter change should not be overlooked, it can really make your speakers come alive.

Congrats with the 606s! Kudos and naim work super well.

your system is a sweetspot combo to me esp if you add the supercap. Played that system on kudos s20, and really loved it.

i would consider staying there, or take an end-game at 552/300/nd555 as while each will improve what u have, they combined to me is the next sweetspot to gravitate towards. And at a substantially higher cost.

for now, have fun enjoying your new speakers, the hardest part to find

br lars

Bart posted:

RM posted:

Then it was time for the 606s. Not as efficient as 707s but in many ways a better package for the room - clean and open treble (not bright) but a beautiful fluid way with the music and no shortage of bottom end when it’s there in the music. Lovely big soundstage too and great low level dynamics. 

 

I'm still working on getting to listen to Kudos. I'd love to hear more about your impressions of 606 vs. 707.  I sit about 9 feet (2.75m) from my speakers and decor-wise the 606's would fit better.  Currently own 252/250DR but pretty intent on trying a 300DR.

Indeed the 707's are rated as more efficient than the 606's; interesting!

Hi Bart - my listening distance is similar to yours actually. the striking thing is that their sound signature is so similar that one has to congratulate Kudos for pulling this off. It’s as if there is a speaker in the Titan range for room size etc. 

I feel the 606 seem to have a more open mid to top end but that could be due to the fact that 707 probably need more space to really shine - I am convinced they will sound equally sublime given more space. The two things that struck me were a) their bass extension is tremendous ; and (b) they barely needed the volume dial moving past 8 o clock on my 282. 606s on the other hand can take 9 and 10 o clock. 

Both speakers have this beautiful low level dynamics that is v important to me with young kids and late night listening. 

I had the opportunity of buying the 707s as ex dem at a price not dissimilar to the new 606s. So it was a v tough choice in that sense. If I had a bigger room I would have opted for 707s. But in this room I felt 606 game me all I needed to be able to listen long periods without getting tired. I could not with the 707s. Hope it helps. 

LarsDK posted:

Congrats with the 606s! Kudos and naim work super well.

your system is a sweetspot combo to me esp if you add the supercap. Played that system on kudos s20, and really loved it.

i would consider staying there, or take an end-game at 552/300/nd555 as while each will improve what u have, they combined to me is the next sweetspot to gravitate towards. And at a substantially higher cost.

for now, have fun enjoying your new speakers, the hardest part to find

br lars

Thanks Lars. Totally agree - it is difficult to get speakers right and almost challenges the conventional view that source comes first. If I was re building the system again I would build the system around the speakers. Interested to hear more on your experience with the supercap on 282. BR 

RM posted:

Thanks Lars. Totally agree - it is difficult to get speakers right and almost challenges the conventional view that source comes first. If I was re building the system again I would build the system around the speakers. Interested to hear more on your experience with the supercap on 282. BR 

OExacly my conclusion though that was after a study more than 40 years ago!

RM - re super cap on 282, you should of course homedemo. In my system it just clicked with the strong PRAT and boogie factor as well as was well resolved, whereas I found the hicap in comparison a bit harsh. Hard to beat combo! Br Lars

RM posted:

Bart posted:

RM posted:

Then it was time for the 606s. Not as efficient as 707s but in many ways a better package for the room - clean and open treble (not bright) but a beautiful fluid way with the music and no shortage of bottom end when it’s there in the music. Lovely big soundstage too and great low level dynamics. 

 

I'm still working on getting to listen to Kudos. I'd love to hear more about your impressions of 606 vs. 707.  I sit about 9 feet (2.75m) from my speakers and decor-wise the 606's would fit better.  Currently own 252/250DR but pretty intent on trying a 300DR.

Indeed the 707's are rated as more efficient than the 606's; interesting!

Hi Bart - my listening distance is similar to yours actually. the striking thing is that their sound signature is so similar that one has to congratulate Kudos for pulling this off. It’s as if there is a speaker in the Titan range for room size etc. 

I feel the 606 seem to have a more open mid to top end but that could be due to the fact that 707 probably need more space to really shine - I am convinced they will sound equally sublime given more space. The two things that struck me were a) their bass extension is tremendous ; and (b) they barely needed the volume dial moving past 8 o clock on my 282. 606s on the other hand can take 9 and 10 o clock. 

Both speakers have this beautiful low level dynamics that is v important to me with young kids and late night listening. 

I had the opportunity of buying the 707s as ex dem at a price not dissimilar to the new 606s. So it was a v tough choice in that sense. If I had a bigger room I would have opted for 707s. But in this room I felt 606 game me all I needed to be able to listen long periods without getting tired. I could not with the 707s. Hope it helps. 

 

 

Helps a lot actually!  Among the menu items, low level dynamics are important (my wife and I listen together a lot, and she's subject to sensory overload and is the one opting for lower volumes), bass extension (I want to pitch my sub) as is objective 'correctness' of matching speakers to room size.  Fortunately I've already demoed at home fabulous speakers that are too big for my room (Devore X) and have heard the results -- too tiresome too quickly. So intuitively I know that one can buy fabulous speakers where the only thing wrong with them are that they are too big for one's room.

My current speakers are quite efficient and 10 o'clock on my 252/250DR is TOO LOUD.