Audiophile modified switch - improving ND555 or not?

I’m not really sure what whether the wire is connected or not has to do it. Music is always played from the buffer, so if the lead makes a difference, it makes a difference to the data that  ends up in the buffer surely? Or maybe it’s that evil RFI affects buffered data on its way to the Dac. Whatever it is, does it matter? If a lead makes a difference then it makes a difference and that’s that. Maybe...

hungryhalibut posted:

I’m not really sure what whether the wire is connected or not has to do it. Music is always played from the buffer, so if the lead makes a difference, it makes a difference to the data that  ends up in the buffer surely? Or maybe it’s that evil RFI affects buffered data on its way to the Dac. Whatever it is, does it matter? If a lead makes a difference then it makes a difference and that’s that. Maybe...

There are in reality many permutations here, and I suspect it's impossible to exclude various effects.

1 - Is the data transferred accurately to the buffer by cheap or high end cables - I suspect so, as ethernet is pretty robust for data.  Hence if we assuming data in the buffer is accurate and music is played from the buffer NOT 'as it arrives in real time' (which it clearly isn't) something else has to explain the audio changes some perceive with different cables (I'm one of those by the way).

2 - It seems far more likely to me that given cables alter 'noise', electrical/RFI/other (Simon explains this better) which affects the sound produced by the unit.

3 - Unplugging the ethernet from the streamer should remove any 'noise' transmitted to it via the ethernet based LAN itself, but also theoretically any RF noise it picks up acting as some kind of 'antenna' (and by extension the rest f the connected cabling).

4 - If there was a difference unplugging ethernet would you then move onto leaving ethernet plugged in to the streamer but disconnected from the ethernet wall socket/switch to see if 'antenna' effects of the cable were at play?

5 - If the ethernet cable is disconnected would this potentially put the ethernet port into a different electrical state which might in itself cause knock on effects in sound quality.

6 - Before spending hundreds on expensive cables I'd probably want to compare performance via wi-fi which can competes very well with wired LANs these days.

7 - Placebo effect

8 - Strange magic

9 - Undoubtedly other factors!

So in essence if you are using ethernet and find one ethernet cable sounds better go for it I suppose, I just don;t think these effects are down to the integrity of the audio file data being transferred.

Has anyone who has heard big differences between cables compared the sound they get when using Wi-Fi  ? If so, what were the results ?

Peder - I’m interested in your group - I’m not aware of anything similar in my area in the UK - do the group members have to buy the equipment they compare ? If so what do you do to avoid perceptional  bias, intended or otherwise ? (This really isn’t a criticism - I’d be interested to know, but it is wandering off topic).

I'm in the Chord fan club, they are awesome.

Gandalf_fi posted:

Anyone using audiophile modified switch? I recently noticed "Cisco SG112-24 MOD" by clonesaudio. Seems that they are changing master clock & putting external low noise power supply into it. Could be interesting to know if switch like 2960 is improving ND555 sound or not?

I believe this switch is circa £600, as MR ROOSTER mentions there is the long awaited SoTM switch and the AQVOX I was interested in I believe if you buy direct there is a 30 day trial.

One of the key things on any such a device reducing PHY layer radiated commissions  will be around the PCB layout and circuitry of the port serial driver, and possibly the use of low noise Ethernet physical driver chips. Powersupplies etc don’t really come into it. An engineering paper from TI who are quite aware of the field and indeed have developed a  portfolio of product and physical design guidance  to precisely deal with low radiated Fast Ethernet noise emissions.

I think in any such product being marketed addressing this, one would need to see objective measures otherwise there is a risk you are buying something that doesn’t do what you think..... in fact I think there is a very big likelihood of this...

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snla107a/snla107a.pdf

RFI affects but also clock. If you remove the cable, NDS clock re-synch will be done about every 10 min. Changing cables will cause re-clocking. So, taking cable away does not take that into account. It really changes the sound. Anyway, if there is the difference there is like HH said. Asking is there the difference in ND555 like NDS? Show me the money !!! Sorry, sound

Gandalf_Fi I believe we are talking Ethernet delivery and not SPDIF. With Ethernet there is no re syncing as the sample data  is not delivered serially....it’s completely different...

Yes, but somehow etnernet cable is affecting to data flow, e.g. AQ cables. My assumption was that if flow changes it is affecting to clock and accuracy. Am I wrong? Anyway, flow might be a better term and clearly impacting.

Hi, yes 8 pair  Ethernet cables of any construction type do not affect data flow  (assuming the cable is not broken)... and have no bearing at all of the timing, clocking etc of the samples into the DAC

The transport protocol used (in this case TCP) in the host (media server and streamer) network stacks transfers the sample data from one host another and is asynchronous and effectively controls the data flows and data confirmation. However it has no bearing at all on the subsequent serialisation of that data into a DAC etc, other than there must be sufficient transferred and confirmed data present to allow it then to be clocked and serialised.. ie the spool buffer. If the spool is full the streamer host simply doesn’t request more blocks of data until it has room. If there is not enough data there will be a dropout.

The way to look at it perhaps is that a taxi takes you from your home to your work office for a meeting. The Ethernet cable is like the tyres and wheels on the taxi. The taxi and its driver reliably gets you to work managing the traffic and rules of the road, that is like the network transport protocol. Once you are at work, and chairing  a meeting for example then this is down to you and your colleagues, and the taxi and it’s driver has no bearing on it, other than it had to have got you to the office... this is like the clocking of the sample data into the DAC....

Now if the tyres had been worn, and you were sliding over the road on the way to the office, then you could arrive at the office stressed and anxious and not perform your best at chairing the meeting if the office environment hadn’t sufficiently calmed you prior to the meeting, you could say you would be distracted... this is like the the Ethernet leads  radiating or conveying circulating EM or ground currents... ie it produces side effects potentially to the process of playing sample data through the DAC if they can’t be sufficiently decoupled in the host devices. The ND555 has been designed for serious decoupling etc... ie you have a relaxing shoulder massage before that meeting !!!

Yes, I totally agree. In NDS case Switch/NAS (especially due bad power supplies) & Ethernet cables  are impacting to the sound quality quite a lot. ND555 uses new LVDS (low-voltage differential signalling) which is helping to get rid of extra noise. Also NDS is having 2 clocks and buffer to handle flow & ND555 just one.

Still asking that are those working and people can get rid of fancy AQ or Chord Ethetnet cables or old Cisco 2960? 

Well It would be interesting if the Catalyst switches provide a worthy SQ boost to ND555, or whether it’s sufficiently decoupled now as to render no meaningful change. However I decouple my DAC from my streamer now, so for me the main benefit of the Cisco Catalyst switch is that I now can run an IGMP querier on the switch which means home automation, Airplay, mDNS and UPnP discovery all work instantly  and reliably each and every tine. This clearly will benefit an ND555 as well as any Naim or non Naim streamer.

Yes indeed, there are really many ND555 users, so soon someone might be testing at some point when the first hype is over. Somehow I believe that besides ND555 improvements there are still ways to improve. Maybe not that big than with NDS but still worth to do? NAS on the fly Flac to Wav conversion improvement might not change either?

Yes.. though I am waiting for some one to post any shift in sound no matter how subtle when they disconnect Ethernet lead when playing out track... they might need an assistant for this task of course for it to be truly objective... assuming it’s subtle...so the mind doesn’t play tricks..